Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 28, 2018 Administrator Share Posted September 28, 2018 There's been 2 stabbings, consequently deaths, in the town where I live within the last 2 weeks. Slightly concerning given one was in the middle of the town centre last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Stan said: There's been 2 stabbings, consequently deaths, in the town where I live within the last 2 weeks. Slightly concerning given one was in the middle of the town centre last night. There's stuff going on all over England and I have to say that living in London has never felt so dangerous. Where I live in Islington is something I've never witnessed in all my life even back in the late 70s and early 80s where there was quite a bit of violence on the streets. This is different now and you do actually sense that your life is in danger at times with no respect for any of your surroundings... Infact the police get no respect from youths at all and say what they like to them. Only two weeks ago on Highbury Fields there were some youths on bicycles going up and down the grove terrorising mothers with their children in buggies... They would cycle past and swing kicks at the mothers or the buggy! Nobody said anything to them, the park patrol didn't want to get involved probably through a sense of danger and that things could go to extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 28, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted September 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, SirBalon said: There's stuff going on all over England and I have to say that living in London has never felt so dangerous. Where I live in Islington is something I've never witnessed in all my life even back in the late 70s and early 80s where there was quite a bit of violence on the streets. This is different now and you do actually sense that your life is in danger at times with no respect for any of your surroundings... Infact the police get no respect from youths at all and say what they like to them. Only two weeks ago on Highbury Fields there were some youths on bicycles going up and down the grove terrorising mothers with their children in buggies... They would cycle past and swing kicks at the mothers or the buggy! Nobody said anything to them, the park patrol didn't want to get involved probably through a sense of danger and that things could go to extremes. There are a lot of factors to take in. One change I've seen so clearly is the cuts in police numbers - it's meant that in the less affluent areas of my town, there is less police presence. Even if it was just PCSOs on the streets - they're not there any more. It's meant that youth crime has gone up and especially in the case of gang violence. Ironically, PSCOs would actually have some kind of bond with the kids in the area and kids would know what they can and can't get away with. It made them less rebellious as in general, they'd know the boundaries. Now that there's no presence at all, or very minimal at the most, the boundaries keep getting pushed until stuff like the above happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Stan said: There are a lot of factors to take in. One change I've seen so clearly is the cuts in police numbers - it's meant that in the less affluent areas of my town, there is less police presence. Even if it was just PCSOs on the streets - they're not there any more. It's meant that youth crime has gone up and especially in the case of gang violence. Ironically, PSCOs would actually have some kind of bond with the kids in the area and kids would know what they can and can't get away with. It made them less rebellious as in general, they'd know the boundaries. Now that there's no presence at all, or very minimal at the most, the boundaries keep getting pushed until stuff like the above happens. You're right that this is the generalised reasoning behind a lot of what's occurring in recent times but even affluent areas are suffering the same affliction. Where I live mate is one of the most sort after areas in North London and it's particularly well patrolled but as I said the new breed of terrorising and violence doesn't really care about what the authorities could possibly do because there is very little they can do really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Not surprising that crime is rising given the cuts... Just as an example: 21,331 fewer officers in the job and 606 stations closed across England & Wales compared to 2010. Places like Bath & St Albans have no station at all! Gloucester lost 21 out of 28 stations and 100 across London have been shut in the last 8 years I could probably count on one hand the amount of Police I see patrolling in our area in any one month, sometimes you can go days without seeing any old bill even in cars unless they are speeding past lights flashing heading to some sort of bother.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Not surprising that crime is rising given the cuts... Just as an example: 21,331 fewer officers in the job and 606 stations closed across England & Wales compared to 2010. Places like Bath & St Albans have no station at all! Gloucester lost 21 out of 28 stations and 100 across London have been shut in the last 8 years I could probably count on one hand the amount of Police I see patrolling in our area in any one month, sometimes you can go days without seeing any old bill even in cars unless they are speeding past lights flashing heading to some sort of bother.. It's not just the patrolling as I mentioned in my previous post (answer to Stan) mate. For example in my area the patrols are as they've always been... The area is perfectly patrolled. It's cuts but even more importantly it's the directive the police get like for example the elimination of blanket stop and search. That due mainly to racism and on a part classism... The crime numbers were much lower before this directive was adjusted. Youths KNOW what the deal is now! That example I put forward on youths kicking and terrorising mothers with their children... Tell me now what would the police do if they catch a situation like that one occurring? A telling off?!? I'm not even going to go into the ethnicity or race side of these things because it all gets a lot more twisted and complicated with connotations and labelling being attached. Assigning the problems just to police numbers would be the wrong way to go although as I said, it is a factor. It's like saying that the problems the NHS are solely financial issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, SirBalon said: It's not just the patrolling as I mentioned in my previous post (answer to Stan) mate. For example in my area the patrols are as they've always been... The area is perfectly patrolled. It's cuts but even more importantly it's the directive the police get like for example the elimination of blanket stop and search. That due mainly to racism and on a part classism... The crime numbers were much lower before this directive was adjusted. Youths KNOW what the deal is now! That example I put forward on youths kicking and terrorising mothers with their children... Tell me now what would the police do if they catch a situation like that one occurring? A telling off?!? I'm not even going to go into the ethnicity or race side of these things because it all gets a lot more twisted and complicated with connotations and labelling being attached. Assigning the problems just to police numbers would be the wrong way to go although as I said, it is a factor. It's like saying that the problems the NHS are solely financial issues. Totally agree mate, The system is such now that youths or criminals can almost get away with doing anything scott free! If it's their first offence they will have their defence crying about how he/she was brought up in a bad environment or suffered bullying at school as though all the choices they make were forced on them somehow and they will be given a caution or a small fine and set free... I think any acts of wilful violence should have a mandatory 1-5 years inside and any acts of violence that lead to someones death should be 10-20 and that should be the minimum served.. I would reserve judgement on acts of violence where by someone had to protect his or her property or were acting in self defence against any such violent acts.. For example if a couple of of these yobs tried to rob someone on the street using knives or hammers and they ended up getting hurt or even killed as a result of it while the victim was protecting themselves then that needs consideration to the victim and not the attacker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted September 28, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted September 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Totally agree mate, The system is such now that youths or criminals can almost get away with doing anything scott free! If it's their first offence they will have their defence crying about how he/she was brought up in a bad environment or suffered bullying at school as though all the choices they make were forced on them somehow and they will be given a caution or a small fine and set free... I think any acts of wilful violence should have a mandatory 1-5 years inside and any acts of violence that lead to someones death should be 10-20 and that should be the minimum served.. I would reserve judgement on acts of violence where by someone had to protect his or her property or were acting in self defence against any such violent acts.. For example if a couple of of these yobs tried to rob someone on the street using knives or hammers and they ended up getting hurt or even killed as a result of it while the victim was protecting themselves then that needs consideration to the victim and not the attacker... Grown up people using their shitty upbringing or tough childhood as an excuse for their shitty behaviour and not taking responsibility for their actions in general is one of a few things that really pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted September 28, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cannabis said: Is the other warm beer? Nah. No beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, nudge said: Grown up people using their shitty upbringing or tough childhood as an excuse for their shitty behaviour and not taking responsibility for their actions in general is one of a few things that really pisses me off. It's one of the worst justifications going.. and worse it gets supported and sympathy is given to these people... Anybody that wakes up in the morning and arms themselves with weapons with the intention to cause harm in pursuit of committing a crime know exactly what they are doing.. And any such acts should be punished with the same severity in which they were carried out.. The more threatening or violent the crime the greater the sentence handed out.. There should be no middle ground on it... you have choices and if that's your choice then you should be made to pay a price for it.. You know a little while back I passed a youth in a hoody in the local area, he stood out like a sore thumb, never seen him before and he had one of those teardrop tattoos on his face that normally indicate they have killed someone and they wear these things like they are some kind of medal and try to send out the message that they are not to be fucked with etc... Just sad fuckers who think they are hard nuts... If I personally killed someone because I was defending myself it would live with me all my life and not something I could be proud of regardless of the circumstances surrounding it... they wear them as though they are proud of their achievement and people like that are just dangerous plain and simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 50 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Anybody that wakes up in the morning and arms themselves with weapons with the intention to cause harm in pursuit of committing a crime know exactly what they are doing This is where the police's hands have been tied so to speak because the old directive of the police using their knowledge and expertise of the whole scenario from demographics to their natural hunch on stopping people to forcefully search cancelled out the possible potential for any of these violent crimes being committed. From those with any likelihood to even contemplate carrying a weapon to catching them carrying it at all was much more controlled. But THAT'S where your real and dangerous snowflakes eliminated some of the best police's natural talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Bluewolf said: Totally agree mate, The system is such now that youths or criminals can almost get away with doing anything scott free! If it's their first offence they will have their defence crying about how he/she was brought up in a bad environment or suffered bullying at school as though all the choices they make were forced on them somehow and they will be given a caution or a small fine and set free... I think any acts of wilful violence should have a mandatory 1-5 years inside and any acts of violence that lead to someones death should be 10-20 and that should be the minimum served.. I would reserve judgement on acts of violence where by someone had to protect his or her property or were acting in self defence against any such violent acts.. For example if a couple of of these yobs tried to rob someone on the street using knives or hammers and they ended up getting hurt or even killed as a result of it while the victim was protecting themselves then that needs consideration to the victim and not the attacker... The system would be even more flawed if it did not take into account a child's upbringing. It's a simple fact that the more unstable the upbringing, the higher the chance the child will live an unstable life....all well and good talking about Police cuts but the problem will still remain and most likely get worse as it's not just the Police who suffer cuts, but benefits, social care, community schemes.... even if we have more Coppers out we'll just have more kids in prison because a system is in place to set them up for failure rather than support them throughout childhood and early adulthood. Kids can almost grow up with a tunnel-vision like view of the world and if your friends/role models are criminals then they're only going to know a life like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Danny said: The system would be even more flawed if it did not take into account a child's upbringing. It's a simple fact that the more unstable the upbringing, the higher the chance the child will live an unstable life....all well and good talking about Police cuts but the problem will still remain and most likely get worse as it's not just the Police who suffer cuts, but benefits, social care, community schemes.... even if we have more Coppers out we'll just have more kids in prison because a system is in place to set them up for failure rather than support them throughout childhood and early adulthood. Kids can almost grow up with a tunnel-vision like view of the world and if your friends/role models are criminals then they're only going to know a life like that. You're not wrong with that and that's the social side of things and where years and years of neglect from our successive governments on all sides of the political ideological spectrum have blood on their hands so to speak and to be rather dramatic in my choice of words. But that's another debate mate and a very important one. Right here and now we are talking on the authority side of things and offering a basic requirement to the general demographic of our society which is safety for all to live their lives in relative peace but always understanding and being sensitive to the wider issues out there that need fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Danny said: The system would be even more flawed if it did not take into account a child's upbringing. It's a simple fact that the more unstable the upbringing, the higher the chance the child will live an unstable life....all well and good talking about Police cuts but the problem will still remain and most likely get worse as it's not just the Police who suffer cuts, but benefits, social care, community schemes.... even if we have more Coppers out we'll just have more kids in prison because a system is in place to set them up for failure rather than support them throughout childhood and early adulthood. Kids can almost grow up with a tunnel-vision like view of the world and if your friends/role models are criminals then they're only going to know a life like that. I don't disagree but you have to have a point to work from... The more stones you throw in the pond the murkier the water becomes until we can't see anything clearly, I don't dispute a single thing you have said there and it's those problems that need to be tackled or sorted as the much as the next thing.. It's too easy for kids/youths to be involved in gangs and criminal activity when the system itself is unable to cope or is under funded and crime with little to no punishment is an easy route to go down... What can't keep happening is using the poor background/abused upbringing as a reason to justify why someone continues to make seriously bad choices... I am fairly sure that there are a lot of people out there who had bad upbringings or were abused and treated badly but they don't all get out of bed each day and reach for the biggest knife or weapon they can find and go out and steal a scooter then go round robbing people and inflicting harm... First thing that needs to happen is getting people like that off the streets, once they are off the streets away from that culture you can work on all the other aspects of what drives them to that kind of life and that's where the funding needs to be... letting people off with warnings/ suspended sentences and the like then allowing them to walk straight back into that life doesn't cure anything because it's not a deterrent... If you started with the worst situation ie: the act or crime itself then work backwards to the point of origin then you might start getting somewhere, going backwards allows you to find the weakness in the system and put it right at each stage, I know others might think that working from the origin is the way forward but in acts of violence that's the just the outcome or end product of everything else that has gone before and the priority would be to remove any further danger to the public or indeed themselves by getting them off the streets to start with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Bluewolf said: I don't disagree but you have to have a point to work from... The more stones you throw in the pond the murkier the water becomes until we can't see anything clearly, I don't dispute a single thing you have said there and it's those problems that need to be tackled or sorted as the much as the next thing.. It's too easy for kids/youths to be involved in gangs and criminal activity when the system itself is unable to cope or is under funded and crime with little to no punishment is an easy route to go down... What can't keep happening is using the poor background/abused upbringing as a reason to justify why someone continues to make seriously bad choices... I am fairly sure that there are a lot of people out there who had bad upbringings or were abused and treated badly but they don't all get out of bed each day and reach for the biggest knife or weapon they can find and go out and steal a scooter then go round robbing people and inflicting harm... First thing that needs to happen is getting people like that off the streets, once they are off the streets away from that culture you can work on all the other aspects of what drives them to that kind of life and that's where the funding needs to be... letting people off with warnings/ suspended sentences and the like then allowing them to walk straight back into that life doesn't cure anything because it's not a deterrent... If you started with the worst situation ie: the act or crime itself then work backwards to the point of origin then you might start getting somewhere, going backwards allows you to find the weakness in the system and put it right at each stage, I know others might think that working from the origin is the way forward but in acts of violence that's the just the outcome or end product of everything else that has gone before and the priority would be to remove any further danger to the public or indeed themselves by getting them off the streets to start with... Don't get me wrong if someone's walking around with a blade I don't think they should be allowed to walk the streets freely, but I think the upbringing carries a lot more weight than it's given credit for. There is a point where an adult needs to turn their own lives around but I think it's an emotional choice to not allow that upbringing as a factor when judging someone's actions even if they are adults, because history shows us that people will reoffend all throughout childhood and even adulthood because that is all they know, not to mention there could also be learning difficulties or mental health issues that they suffer from that have never been identified or properly treated. Police patrols are needed but they're a short term fix, the government need to heavily invest in social services for children and rehabilitation for anyone who has gone through prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted September 29, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted September 29, 2018 To add to the @Bluewolf, @SirBalon, @Danny conversation, your first problem is referring to these kids as youths. Nobody calls kids youths in any other context than if they're causing some sort of trouble, so if people are going round referring to kids as youths all the time they're more likely to live up to that tag and act out. Sounds like a bad excuse, I'm not justifying their behaviour but I've never liked the word youths since I was a teenager myself, it has assumptions lying behind it rightly or wrongly. I remember hanging out with my friends growing up at the park or just around town and if it was getting dark and we were all hanging around in our hoodies and trainers, not drinking or causing trouble, just being kids, and perhaps people wouldn't come up to you and actually call you a group of youths, but sometimes their eyes would show they're suspicious of you, or when they cross the road to avoid you instead when you're not doing anything but being a 14-16 year old lad who wouldn't hurt a fly walking down the street, it's insulting from the eyes of a teenager if you put yourself in their shows and it's part of the problem that creates a real 'us and them' vibe which contributes to some teenagers terrorising other people. I'm not exonerating anyone of blame for their actions but having worked in various schools including Everton Free School where you've got 15 year olds who smoke weed every weekend and are already in some of the most dangerous gangs in Liverpool, and they're still capable of sitting in a classroom the day after one of their gang members got shot dead in a launderette, wanting to try and learn something that can one day help them make something of themselves, it really brings it home that very rarely is there such a thing as a "bad kid" (and I'd extend that to say that it's very rare to see someone who's a bad person). Even at the age where they're old enough to go around on their bikes kicking out at mothers with babies, most of these little shits are basically just children who under the right circumstances might be perfectly normal but have probably just suffered from shitty parenting and neglect that has led them to not understand the difference between right and wrong. Part of the judicial systems job is to teach people, young and old, what is right and wrong, but this should only be a safety net in special sets of circumstances. Now I'm massively against police cuts, don't get me wrong, it's another failing on a long list from a government that gets away with blue murder as the Brexit farce distracts the media and the country from the fact that the public sector no longer has the funding to provide the education, policing or healthcare that should be available to a country as developed as ours so that a few industries here and there can make slightly more money, but that's a whole other issue. The real epidemic in the UK is a generation of parents bringing baby after baby into a household where sometimes there isn't the money, but often there isn't the level of responsibility or basic expertise, to raise that child into a functioning member of society. It isn't the police's job to raise people's kids and teach them right and wrong, nor is it the school's but again that's another but equally significant issue when it comes to attitudes of parents these days. Even worse, these kids that haven't been raised properly are the first ones to start breeding before they hit 20 and the cycle continues. I can promise you if every young person had the upbringing that most of the balanced and well adjusted posters on this forum probably benefited from, 99% of them would turn out just fan with just a few bad eggs that you're always going to get. Never forget that kids are kids and while it may sound like an excuse that they do shitty things because they had a bad upbringing, and if they're self aware enough to use this as an excuse they're definitely self aware enough to make better choices, but it also isn't a child's job to teach themselves right and wrong and how to behave or not to behave. If a 15 year old lad goes around carrying a knife with half an intention to use it on someone who tries to stop him doing whatever the fuck he wants then he's a dangerous little shit who needs to be taught a thing or two about acceptable behaviour, but referring to him as another youth on another street corner is only going to perpetuate the stereotype he is growing into and to solve the problem we as a society need to look at preventing the countless emotional and educational needs that the parents have failed to provide that child with that have led them down that path in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 @Stan do you want to move this lot to a separate thread mate?? We can continue any more discussion on it in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 @RandoEFC I agree with you about the terminology mate, it's why I don't like the word chav as it insinuates you are better than them. If I'm called a chav as a kid then I'd rather be your perception of a chav than your perception of normal because you're creating an us against them. Anyone who claims to be a supporter of the working classes, of people who didn't grow up with the privileges of a stable two parent family, consistent roof over their head, in a nice area surrounded by people who grew up with a stable up bringing and goes around calling kids and adults chavs then they are massive hyprocritres and are just chatting shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, RandoEFC said: To add to the @Bluewolf, @SirBalon, @Danny conversation, your first problem is referring to these kids as youths. Nobody calls kids youths in any other context than if they're causing some sort of trouble, so if people are going round referring to kids as youths all the time they're more likely to live up to that tag and act out. Sounds like a bad excuse, I'm not justifying their behaviour but I've never liked the word youths since I was a teenager myself, it has assumptions lying behind it rightly or wrongly. I remember hanging out with my friends growing up at the park or just around town and if it was getting dark and we were all hanging around in our hoodies and trainers, not drinking or causing trouble, just being kids, and perhaps people wouldn't come up to you and actually call you a group of youths, but sometimes their eyes would show they're suspicious of you, or when they cross the road to avoid you instead when you're not doing anything but being a 14-16 year old lad who wouldn't hurt a fly walking down the street, it's insulting from the eyes of a teenager if you put yourself in their shows and it's part of the problem that creates a real 'us and them' vibe which contributes to some teenagers terrorising other people. I'm not exonerating anyone of blame for their actions but having worked in various schools including Everton Free School where you've got 15 year olds who smoke weed every weekend and are already in some of the most dangerous gangs in Liverpool, and they're still capable of sitting in a classroom the day after one of their gang members got shot dead in a launderette, wanting to try and learn something that can one day help them make something of themselves, it really brings it home that very rarely is there such a thing as a "bad kid" (and I'd extend that to say that it's very rare to see someone who's a bad person). Even at the age where they're old enough to go around on their bikes kicking out at mothers with babies, most of these little shits are basically just children who under the right circumstances might be perfectly normal but have probably just suffered from shitty parenting and neglect that has led them to not understand the difference between right and wrong. Part of the judicial systems job is to teach people, young and old, what is right and wrong, but this should only be a safety net in special sets of circumstances. Now I'm massively against police cuts, don't get me wrong, it's another failing on a long list from a government that gets away with blue murder as the Brexit farce distracts the media and the country from the fact that the public sector no longer has the funding to provide the education, policing or healthcare that should be available to a country as developed as ours so that a few industries here and there can make slightly more money, but that's a whole other issue. The real epidemic in the UK is a generation of parents bringing baby after baby into a household where sometimes there isn't the money, but often there isn't the level of responsibility or basic expertise, to raise that child into a functioning member of society. It isn't the police's job to raise people's kids and teach them right and wrong, nor is it the school's but again that's another but equally significant issue when it comes to attitudes of parents these days. Even worse, these kids that haven't been raised properly are the first ones to start breeding before they hit 20 and the cycle continues. I can promise you if every young person had the upbringing that most of the balanced and well adjusted posters on this forum probably benefited from, 99% of them would turn out just fan with just a few bad eggs that you're always going to get. Never forget that kids are kids and while it may sound like an excuse that they do shitty things because they had a bad upbringing, and if they're self aware enough to use this as an excuse they're definitely self aware enough to make better choices, but it also isn't a child's job to teach themselves right and wrong and how to behave or not to behave. If a 15 year old lad goes around carrying a knife with half an intention to use it on someone who tries to stop him doing whatever the fuck he wants then he's a dangerous little shit who needs to be taught a thing or two about acceptable behaviour, but referring to him as another youth on another street corner is only going to perpetuate the stereotype he is growing into and to solve the problem we as a society need to look at preventing the countless emotional and educational needs that the parents have failed to provide that child with that have led them down that path in the first place. You do make a few valid observations there mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 29, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Bluewolf said: @Stan do you want to move this lot to a separate thread mate?? We can continue any more discussion on it in there... Done. Been quite a good debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc 570 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Who would have thought that reducing the number of police and closing down police stations would result in more crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I was in the pub once making the police cuts crime rise correlation. A David Cameron campaigner whipped out some government stats that show knife crime isn't as high as before austerity. The trends show knife crime going down and stabilising at a lower level between 2012 and 2015 even whilst stop and search collapses off. The 2017 figures show an explosion of knife crime when seen next to these years. Something causes a rapid change in a very short space of time. Maybe police cuts compound it, leads to a failure to curb it before it can take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Just now, Cannabis said: Some exciting pubs in Newcastle I see . It was in Westminster. In Newcastle we talk about Mike Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 29, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted September 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, Harvsky said: It was in Westminster. In Newcastle we talk about Mike Ashley. are you all topless in the Newcastle pubs as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stan said: are you all topless in the Newcastle pubs as well? Only if there is a chance of getting on the tele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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