European Super League

[Marc]

On 04/11/2018 at 13:26, The Rebel CRS said:

Without having played Barcelona even once during those wins, a team who annihilate them in the league nearly every season.

A super league would require having to play everyone twice and would be a league format rather than knock out tournament.

 

HAhaha it's not Real's fault that Barca lost to muck like Roma along the way. Barca were always knocked out before they could play them. 

Kings.

[Cicero]

League format? Count Real out. 

[Dave]

As for the Super League, ignoring the fact that Spurs who cant organise their own stadium have been invited which is hilarious, if plans materialise for a super league then the only stance football fans can really take is a boycott. What makes football special is the contribution the fans make. Look how odd the Croatia England felt and how weird it was when Dortmund fans went silent.

I imagine the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern will push for it, but for the Premier League Clubs there's less of a push at the moment as they're making plenty of money in contrast to the rest of Europe. What I think the top six may do is use this as a bargaining tool to get what they want in the future. You can tell they're not happy about how the tv money is proportionally spread, and they could see this as their way to get a much bigger slice of the pie to avoid another Leicester.

[Smiley Culture]

On 04/11/2018 at 19:51, ScoRoss said:

But individual deals that the clubs have would be less appealing. Man United having an official Asian airline or an official crisp in Africa, then suddenly they are near the bottom of the table whilst the glory hunters that lach onto them are now fans of who ever is top. These sponsors aren't going to hang around.

That's why it seems the leaders of this are the 'new money' clubs. Clubs that are still trying to build their fan base.

I think regardless of where teams finish in this proposed “Super League”, global organisations will be falling over themselves to have their name involved somewhere given the amount of eyes the world over that would be fixated on Manchester City v PSG, for example. 

[CaaC (John)+]

European Super League: Arsenal 'never want' to leave Premier League

16 November 2018 | Arsenal

 

Arsenal want to be part of any future talks about a European Super League but do not want to "damage" the Premier League by walking away, says managing director Vinai Venkatesham.

German publication Der Spiegel claimed earlier this month that top European clubs had held secret discussions about a potential breakaway league.

"We have to be in the conversations. It doesn't necessarily mean we support them," said Venkatesham, who was appointed after former chief executive Ivan Gazidis left for AC Milan.

"Arsenal aren't, or never have been, interested in playing in any competition that weakens the Premier League. The Premier League is the world's leading league in the leading sport - we don't want to do anything to damage it.

"When people talk about the European Super League, that covers a really big spectrum. People jump to one end of the spectrum and think this is what we are talking about - but actually often it's just a slight evolution from where we are today.

"I see these articles that Arsenal want to break away. We never want to do any of that. But we also have to recognise we have to be in these conversations or we wouldn't be responsible."

• European Super League would damage English football - UK government

Arsenal restructured their senior management after Gazidis' departure, with former head of football relations Raul Sanllehi becoming head of football as Venkatesham moved from chief commercial officer to managing director.

While at Barcelona, Sanllehi was part of a working group which looked into a European Super League, but the Spaniard says any such revamp will not happen in the short term after a renegotiation of the terms of the Champions League agreement with Uefa.

"As we are responsible for top European clubs, the ECA [European Club Association] had to look at all the options for the future," Sanllehi said.

"One of them, of course, could have been the possibility of a European Super League. It was a conversation we didn't hide from anybody, not even from the ECA smaller clubs.

"We looked into that in two ways: a way of exploring the real possibility and also how it would help us to negotiate with Uefa under the new terms because every cycle we will negotiate the memorandum of understanding.

"At the end of the day, the outcome was the best possible because we got into a new deal with Uefa within the system that protected the domestic leagues."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46242455

 

[Dave]

The European Club Association (ECA) chief Andrea Agnelli and UEFA president Aleksander Cerefin are set to confirm their combined rejection of any plans for a new European Super League.

The two organisations will hold a joint press conference in Brussels on Tuesday, where the prospect of a breakaway league will be discussed and jointly opposed.

The ECA, who has members from 25 countries including the English Football League, Premier League and Scottish Professional Football League, have made it clear they had no knowledge of the breakaway plans released by Football Leaks and published by German magazine Der Speigel.

The plans suggested a 16-team line up from 2021 featuring 11 of Europe's top clubs, plus 5 invited teams, in what would be seen as a replacement for the Champions League.

[CaaC (John)+]

European Super League is a 'fiction', say Uefa boss & clubs chief

By Richard Conway

BBC sports news correspondent

9 hours ago | European Football

Proposed plans for a breakaway European Super League are "fiction" - according to the two most powerful officials in European football.

Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin and Andrea Agnelli, the chairman of the influential European Club Association (ECA) which represents over 200 leading teams, say they are "united" - despite recently leaked documents claiming secret talks had been held over the creation of a new elite league.

"The Super League will not happen. It is in a way a fiction now or a dream," said Ceferin.

Agnelli, who is also chairman of Juventus - one of the teams reported to be a potential founding member of the Super League - added: "I can confirm we have never seen, never discussed, never been involved in the creation of this document.

"We are fully engaged with Uefa in shaping the game going forward."

Speaking exclusively to BBC Sport, Ceferin and Agnelli also outlined:

• Their plans to reform European football from 2024 onwards.
• How a revised football calendar could see less domestic football and more European ties played.
• Why qualification for Europe must not just be for the elite.

Will there be a breakaway?

German publication Der Speigel claims to have documents which show a new Super League could be up and running by 2021 - featuring the biggest clubs from Spain, Italy, Germany, England and France.

However, Ceferin and Agnelli are adamant that the top clubs will stay within Uefa and that detailed talks are under way to find "solutions" - including changes to the format of the Champions League to secure a more lucrative broadcasting deal.

"We have some ideas. All I can say is that any Super League is out of the question. Participation stays. And everybody will have an opportunity to compete in every European competition," said Ceferin.

So what does it mean for European competitions?

A new third European competition with 32 teams will be rubber-stamped at a Uefa meeting in Dublin early next month.

So with the Champions League, Europa League and the new third contest, a total of 96 teams will compete once pre-qualifying is completed.

Cerefin says it will be the "beginning of wider European competition", and that clubs and national associations "appreciate it".

Referencing the likes of Celtic, Porto, Benfica, Ajax and Anderlecht, Agnelli added: "It will be our duty to safeguard the great heritages of European football but on the other side I think we are very well aware that we have to safeguard markets, we have to think about upcoming markets.

"We have to think about Poland. We have to think about [countries like] Turkey, we have to think about Russia. Fans can rest assured that if we put our hands to making a new product it's because we want to make sure that fans across Europe engage."

Will the rich just get richer?

Both men reject the suggestion that the dominance of Europe's top teams is being reinforced by these new competition structures.

"The dogma of the dream has to stay alive, because it is the foundation of European sports," says Agnelli.

Ceferin says: "Unfortunately in the world many times it happens that the rich become richer. I think we are one of the rare organisations in the world that tackles this problem.

"We know that we have to slow the gap [between rich clubs and the rest] because probably it will be hard to stop completely.

"And I'm not sure if we want to have everyone equal without intervention. I think that wouldn't be the right approach because if you are doing a good job, you're working a lot, trying to do something, you have to be rewarded for that.

"But 'know your place' is not fair to say. You have to compete, you have to have results to qualify for the top competition. If you don't have results it would be a strange competition. You decide it by sport results, it's the only way."

Why do they think change is needed?

Nothing will actually change before 2024 when the existing competition arrangements expire.

Agnelli says the aim is for every club to increase their international exposure through more European ties - while Cerefin says they are "trying to find a solution together".

"The best platforms can only come through international competitions and that is why increasing participation increasing inclusion it is key to all of us," he added.

"Now the most relevant games are the top of the ladder games. If you look at the Champions League final in comparison to the Super Bowl it beats it by a factor of 1.5 to 1.

"So the spectators of that game are on a global scale. We have to build on that to make sure we have the resources to allocate throughout Europe to allow every single club, in every single European country, to have a proper international platform."

Does that mean less domestic football then?

Both men declined to give specific detail on the potential changes to European football, given the ongoing negotiations with clubs, leagues and associations.

But if European fixtures increase then an already packed football calendar will need comprehensive revision.

The ECA wants to see the international confederation tournaments, such as the European Championships and Afcon, all played in the summer of the same year. Guaranteed rest periods for players is also high on the agenda.

And Agnelli's idea for a "rebalancing" of European games over domestic games is likely to cause some controversy - although both officials were keen to point out that they are simply at an "idea stage".

"Evidently if you want to have an overall rebalancing of European football and more international [European] football, all that would have to go hand in hand with a reduction of domestic games," says Agnelli.

"But most importantly it is harmonising. Today you take England, for example, that has two national cups. A team potentially plays 53 domestic games.

"Then you take Germany where the maximum number of games is 43 because there are two fewer teams in the league and there is only one cup. So that is 10 games difference. Is it logical?

"There's a whole system of anomalies that have to be addressed. It might mean in certain leagues increasing the amount of games. It's not just about reducing, it's about making it a level playing field, which is very important."

What's next?

Ceferin and Agnelli will travel to Brussels on Tuesday to meet the European Commissioner for Sport, Tibor Navracsics.

Cerefin said: "We want to show that our vision of the future of football is, let's say, similar. It's not completely the same. We [Uefa and the ECA] have some disagreements from time to time but we firmly believe in the European sports model together.

"We think that the European football can go further only if we stay together, unified. If you want to develop football you have to stay together.

"Europe has problems with unity these days - and football, as one of the biggest powers, should lead this unity. That's our opinion."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46259269

[CaaC (John)+]

European Super League: Will football follow basketball's lead?

By Andy West

Spanish football writer

3 hours ago | European Football

      It's Bayern v Barca - but not as you know it...

Barcelona v Bayern Munich. Two of the biggest clubs in the world head to head in the Catalan capital in an important early season meeting, broadcast on live television in every continent.

The hosts take an early lead and, although Bayern rally after the break, another powerful surge from Barca - with summer signing Jaka Blazic to the fore - allows them to seal the victory, sending their fans home happy.

What's going on here? Have you missed something? Why didn't you hear anything about this game until now? And who is Jaka Blazic?

This is not a work of fiction. It was a real game, played on 18 October.

The venue? Palau Blaugrana, the indoor arena next to FC Barcelona's Nou Camp. The occasion? Barca's first home game of the new season in EuroLeague, the continent's top basketball competition.

You might now be wondering why a basketball game is introducing an article about football, but it is fundamental in understanding why elite clubs have seriously considered breaking away from Uefa to set up a European Super League.

The best against the best

The assertion, based on leaked documents, that Europe's top clubs have been plotting their own Super League, was dismissed by two of the continent's most influential football officials last week.

But the fact remains that, privately, the most powerful European teams want a system that ensures one thing - the best regularly playing the best.

And envious glances have been made towards basketball's EuroLeague, where big games are guaranteed.

Take Barcelona v Bayern. In EuroLeague, the clubs know they will meet twice a year. In football, they have not played each other since 2015, and the date of their next fixture is entirely dependent on the luck of the draw.

The best against the best

The assertion, based on leaked documents, that Europe's top clubs have been plotting their own Super League, was dismissed by two of the continent's most influential football officials last week.

But the fact remains that, privately, the most powerful European teams want a system that ensures one thing - the best regularly playing the best.

And envious glances have been made towards basketball's EuroLeague, where big games are guaranteed.

Take Barcelona v Bayern. In EuroLeague, the clubs know they will meet twice a year. In football, they have not played each other since 2015, and the date of their next fixture is entirely dependent on the luck of the draw.

Since their last meeting, Barca and Bayern have been kept apart while playing in the Champions League against teams such as BATE, Rostov and AEK Athens.

To be blunt, that is not the kind of company they want to keep. They want to play against each other in the same manner as their basketball teams, even if it means creating a new competition to do so.

That sentiment was expressed as long ago as 2009 by Real Madrid president Florentino Perez, a regular attendee of his club's EuroLeague games, who said: "We have to agree a new European Super League which guarantees that the best always play the best, something that does not happen in the Champions League."

Many key figures at top European clubs have felt that way for a long time, and their patience will run out - especially when they can already see their clubs doing exactly what they want in another sport.

Barca and Bayern's basketball teams, along with Real Madrid, are among the 16 competing clubs in EuroLeague, which follows a home-and-away league format with 30 games over the course of six months, before the top eight advance into knockout playoffs.

The competition is owned and organised by the clubs, who felt they needed to break away from their sport's governing body nearly 20 years ago in a similar manner to the creation of the Premier League in 1992.

And there is one key reason why the EuroLeague structure appeals: money.

Bonanza from broadcasters and sponsors

      Barcelona basketball player Kevin Seraphin with footballer Lionel Messi

A guarantee of 30 games, rather than an absolute maximum of 13 in the current Champions League (and possibly as few as six), firstly means the opportunity to earn a lot more from ticket receipts and the lucrative matchday hospitality market.

It also provides a major opportunity to significantly boost revenues from the two main financial drivers of modern sport - sponsors and broadcasters, who will lap up the opportunity to showcase their brands and fill their schedules with a weekly supply of premium quality games, featuring the world's most popular teams and most famous players.

EuroLeague basketball, as club executives are well aware, has reported a growth in revenue of 103.3% in media rights and 49.9% in sponsorship since adopting the league format two years ago.

Another big attraction for clubs is the opportunity to keep all this extra revenue for themselves rather than losing a large slice to Uefa, which takes about £600m annually from the Champions League to cover administrative costs, solidarity payments and general projects.

Money, as always, is talking. And the clubs are hearing the message loud and clear.

Will fans love it or hate it? Or both?

Clubs, broadcasters and sponsors might love the idea of a Super League, but what about another crucial stakeholder in the game: fans?

The reaction of many supporters has been hostile, with a long list of complaints including the anti-sporting principles of a 'closed' competition lacking relegation or promotion, an excessive focus on money-making, the risk of damaging domestic leagues and an erosion of time-honoured rituals and traditions.

Those negative views were summed up by Football Supporters' Federation (FSF) chair Malcolm Clarke, who said: "Yet again there is a far-reaching proposal being drawn up by big clubs whose primary interest is making as much money as possible without any consultation with fans at club, national or European level."

However, the reaction of British fans will not necessarily be shared by other supporters around Europe:: an online poll by Spanish newspaper Marca year saw 58% of the 93,000 respondents say they would be in favour of the creation of a Super League.

There is also a key distinction between match-going fans and the 'new breed' of supporters - constituting a large majority of the overall fanbase - who live all over the world and follow their teams on television and increasingly through social media.

Former AC Milan owner Silvio Berlusconi supposedly quipped that the most important role of fans actually inside the stadium is to make the product look better on television - and the bosses of La Liga seem to share that view, introducing a new regulation two years ago which obliges clubs to sell tickets in the stand directly facing the main television cameras.

And it's worth bearing in mind that just because the traditionalists shout the loudest, that doesn't mean they represent the majority.

Should all Manchester United fans be treated equally whether they live in Arizona or Altrincham? Or should the opinions of match-going supporters be given more weight than those who follow their teams - and perhaps even more so their favourite players - from afar?

The answers to those questions might not be as clear-cut as traditionalists assume. The example of EuroLeague basketball suggests even match-going fans could end up appreciating the change in format: average attendances have increased by 17.4% - to an average of 8,864 - since the league structure was introduced two years ago.

Will it really happen?

The idea of a Super League has been floated for so long, without anything happening, it would be easy to dismiss the whole concept as pie in the sky.

Creating a new league from scratch, especially in the face of fierce opposition and potential legal challenges, would certainly be a hugely risky venture for the elite clubs, however powerful they might be.

And the whole thing, indeed, could just be one big bluff: rather than truly intending to break away, the clubs may just be attempting to force Uefa into remodelling the European calendar and system, something that has already been discussed.

There's also a train of thought within English football that continental clubs are chiefly interested in bridging the huge financial gap between themselves and their Premier League counterparts.

None of this, however, means the plans should be taken lightly.

Many key figures within top clubs are deadly serious in their ambition to create a new tournament which allows them to compete with their peers, and the example they've seen on basketball courts has given them an idea of how it could work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46348348

[ScoRoss]

FIFA and the six confederations, including UEFA, would ban any player, in any breakaway league, from competing in the World Cup or regional tournaments (Euros, Copa America etc).

Probably the last bargaining chip they have to play in this.

[Stan]

My heart bleeds.

[DeadLinesman]

FIFA would cave. They’re about the money and so are the players. The best players would still be at the best clubs (as such) and nowadays, you play for your wallet. 

[The Artful Dodger]

It'l end up like cricket, with a league in the middle east were they sign all the players. Cancers like Manchester United and Liverpool would happily move over there now if it wasn't for their local fanbase opposing it.

[Smiley Culture]

FIFA would be cutting their nose off to spite their face by banning the best players from any future World Cup and we’ve seen how dodgy FIFA are in the past, so they’d cave and count their money. Not that their stance isn’t correct, by distancing themselves from this idea. 

[ScoRoss]

 

[Smiley Culture]

This generation of footballers will be in wheelchairs by 50 at this rate. 

[Stan]

Not a fan of any super league and wouldn't want my club to be part of any kind of break-away. 

[Danny]

I had a post for this but forgot to post it, long story short I'm against a super league but for the merging of leagues i.e. bringing the English and Scottish systems together, being regional or national the further down you go. Would be interested in the planned merge of Dutch and Belgium leagues and also a Nordic/Scandinavian league.

[CaaC (John)+]

Quote

European Super League: Uefa halts disciplinary action against Barcelona, Juventus & Real Madrid

Uefa has halted disciplinary action against Barcelona, Juventus and Real Madrid over their involvement in the proposed European Super League.

The clubs were among the 12 "founding" members of the breakaway league, which later collapsed.

The trio, who have refused to renounce the project, were being investigated for "a potential violation" of Uefa's legal framework.

Uefa says it is now "as if the proceedings had never been opened".

FULL REPORT

 

[CaaC (John)+]

Quote

European Super League: New proposal would be open competition, say organisers

A new-look European Super League would be a competition with no permanent members and based on sporting performance, says A22 chief executive Bernd Reichart.

A22 Sports Management is a company promoting a revamped European league.

The company backed a 12-club ESL proposal in 2021 that failed to materialise after protests against it.

"The foundations of European football are in danger of collapsing," Reichart told German newspaper Die Welt.

"It's time for a change. It is the clubs that bear the entrepreneurial risk in football.

"But when important decisions are at stake, they are too often forced to sit idly by on the sidelines as the sporting and financial foundations crumble around them."

• European Super League timeline - football's volatile 72 hours

The original plans for the ESL in 2021 contained 20 teams - 12 founding members and three unnamed clubs they expected to join later, plus five clubs who would have qualified annually based on their domestic achievements.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham backed out of the project within 48 hours following widespread condemnation.

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus, however, are still pushing for an ESL.

Reichart says the new ESL would contain 60 to 80 teams, each guaranteed a minimum of 14 matches per season and continue to play in their domestic leagues. A22 did not provide more specifics on the format.

In December, Uefa and Fifa received significant backing in their bid to block the creation of a European Super League.

FULL REPORT

 

 

[Azeem]

 

[True Blue]

Goddamit not this shit again

[Redcanuck]

1 hour ago, CaaC (John) said:

 

Not much different than the current Champions League, which it could replace if it happens.  Doubt that the teams who promoted the original super league would be all that interested. Too many teams involved to spilt the revenue and no permanent  membership will turn off some of the teams involved with the first Super League.

[Dr. Gonzo]

FFS if we want to do something stupid with club tournaments, do a Club World Cup. But let every club in the world have a chance to qualify.

There you go, more extra games added to milk for money so greedy clubs can be happy. Small clubs get a chance to get some of that revenue, so they can be happy. And it's more fucking interesting than just making a knockoff Champions League backed by Goldman Sachs.

[Gunnersaurus]

Is the super league that bad if you have to qualify? Not really much different to the champions league?

[Honey Honey]

There should be a mileage cap on games. You can't be adding more and more emissions. Champions League needs to be regionalised in the early stages.