Burning Gold 599 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Only because of how the game has been made to benefit those clubs. Prior to the advent of the fabled 'Champions League' this was not the case and you regularly saw clubs from outside the usual winning it. 4th place is an absolute nothing position, medicore and should have zero reward. Nothing clubs like Arsenal and Manchester City are now considered to be bigger* than actual European giants like Ajax and Benfica who've contributed more to this sport than most of these also rans combined. *Granted these people are usually cretins but since the world is largely made up of them, it's troubling. I don't disagree, but that's how it is these days and I really can't see it going back to how it was unfortunately. Even with the changes you'd like to see, the sheer sums of money flowing into those clubs will ensure they always remain stronger than the rest. If you have one of each, I'd put my house on the semi-finalists almost always being the champions of Spain, Italy, Germany, and England. 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: @Burning Gold Why does everything have to be about the Champions League though?... I don't disagree with a lot of what you say either, but there's a fundamental disconnect between what the owners want (money) and what the majority of fans want (winning football matches). It is all about the Champions League because that's where the money is. Champions League for the clubs strong enough to aim for it, domestic top flight for the clubs who aren't. You want the owners to want the same thing as the fans? Make the incentives line up. When you say this: 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: I just think the FA Cup can be one of the only sources left of domestic football actually having a purpose, actually having glory for glory's sake and not just well the trophy is nice but what I'm really bothered about is the £400million Champions League money and our trips to Bayern, Marseille and Lokomotiv Moscow next season before the second round loss to PSG. That is the incentives lining up. The owners and bean counters can celebrate the payday while the fans celebrate the trophy. Everyone's happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2_Blade 1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I think one of best ways of boosting Fa Cup is to reduce the excuses managers have for resting players. I would do this if it was possible Champions League places for top 3 in Premier League and Qualifying Spot for winners of FA Cup. The League Cup is a football league trophy so i would make it just that so only Championship, League One and League two clubs take part, straight away reducing fixtures for big clubs that they all moan about and that would also have the bonus of removing the football league trophy which nobody is to bothered about anyway. FA Cup i would potentially remove replays again to reduce the excuse of to many games and potentially if level after 90 minutes go straight to penalties. Better fixture planning also, we all love Boxing Day and New Years day games so keep them but remove the Saturday game in-between maybe, go to an 18 team premier league and 20 teams in football league, there is plenty of options on reducing fixtures so its up to officials been radical instead of allowing all these multiple changes everytime there is a cup game. I love the Fa Cup and seeing Blades make 10 changes and then them coming in not even bothering was painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue 1,897 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 06/01/2019 at 14:37, Gunnersauraus said: Unfortunately because of the money involved in the league the fa cup has lost a lot of prestige. Would giving a champions league place to the winner help? It may also increase the money generated and then allow prize money to be increased for reaching the next round. Whether we like it or not football is about money now and it would be nice to do something to make it like it once was. Not really because we already have a CL place so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I think better financial remuneration is required to get teams and their owners more interested again in the FA Cup. An FA Cup win bags you about £5m in prize money, excluding the income you get from ticket sales, which is peanuts compared to even a 17th place finish in the Premier League. If you could offer prize money that was £20m+ for a Cup win, I reckon some teams would be more willing to have a crack at winning the FA Cup than they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 9 hours ago, S2_Blade said: I think one of best ways of boosting Fa Cup is to reduce the excuses managers have for resting players. I would do this if it was possible Champions League places for top 3 in Premier League and Qualifying Spot for winners of FA Cup. The League Cup is a football league trophy so i would make it just that so only Championship, League One and League two clubs take part, straight away reducing fixtures for big clubs that they all moan about and that would also have the bonus of removing the football league trophy which nobody is to bothered about anyway. FA Cup i would potentially remove replays again to reduce the excuse of to many games and potentially if level after 90 minutes go straight to penalties. Better fixture planning also, we all love Boxing Day and New Years day games so keep them but remove the Saturday game in-between maybe, go to an 18 team premier league and 20 teams in football league, there is plenty of options on reducing fixtures so its up to officials been radical instead of allowing all these multiple changes everytime there is a cup game. I love the Fa Cup and seeing Blades make 10 changes and then them coming in not even bothering was painful. Personally i would make the league cup championship to league 2 and premier league u23 teams. I think the 4th place spot champions league place going to the fa cup winners is possible. I don't think the league will ever be reduced though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,640 Posted January 9, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted January 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: Personally i would make the league cup championship to league 2 and premier league u23 teams. I think the 4th place spot champions league place going to the fa cup winners is possible. I don't think the league will ever be reduced though I think a Championship downwards trophy is a good plan, but I wouldn't like to see the League Cup removed as a competition for top flight teams. It doesn't solve the problem we're discussing in this thread but I don't see the problem with moving the WhoTheFucksSponsoringItThisSeason Trophy for Leagues 1 and 2 to include the Championship as well. They've already thrown in the towel on the old format by including the Under 23 sides in there which doesn't seem to have worked out much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Happy Blue said: Not really because we already have a CL place so.. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I like having 2 cup competitions because at the start of the season I look forward in hope to the September cup games. The when we get knocked out of the 2nd round of the league cup I can look forward to the January FA Cup. Then when we get knocked out of the FA Cup 3rd round it all becomes a bit boring focusing solely on the league for the rest of the year. I wouldn't like to be out of the only cup in September and have the league for the next 8 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Harvsky said: I like having 2 cup competitions because at the start of the season I look forward in hope to the September cup games. The when we get knocked out of the 2nd round of the league cup I can look forward to the January FA Cup. Then when we get knocked out of the FA Cup 3rd round it all becomes a bit boring focusing solely on the league for the rest of the year. I wouldn't like to be out of the only cup in September and have the league for the next 8 months. That's alright you'll get relegated soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 @Harvsky funny thing is when I first got into football Newcastle reached 2 fa cup finals in a row and then a semi final. Don't know if you can remember that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: @Harvsky funny thing is when I first got into football Newcastle reached 2 fa cup finals in a row and then a semi final. Don't know if you can remember that? I do. I remember Shearer hitting the post when we were 1 down in 98. We had too much dross in our team in 99 to compete. In 00 we deserved to go to the final again for me. That we didn't win anything in the 12 years before Ashley is a travesty considering what we had. We used to start every season with the question will we win something this year. I haven't heard that question in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, Harvsky said: I do. I remember Shearer hitting the post when we were 1 down in 98. We had too much dross in our team in 99 to compete. In 00 we deserved to go to the final again for me. That we didn't win anything in the 12 years before Ashley is a travesty considering what we had. We used to start every season with the question will we win something this year. I haven't heard that question in years. How old are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: How old are you? You can't ask a lady that! I'm no longer in my 20s. I was 17 when I started on the original version of TFF I've had a season ticket since the stadium extension in 2000/2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, Harvsky said: You can't ask a lady that! I'm no longer in my 20s. I was 17 when I started on the original version of TFF I've had a season ticket since the stadium extension in 2000/2001. So by my grade d maths GCSE you are 217. Not quite the oldest member on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: So by my grade d maths GCSE you are 217. Not quite the oldest member on here True. There are a couple of people on here who have walk on parts in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,363 Posted January 9, 2019 Administrator Share Posted January 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Harvsky said: True. There are a couple of people on here who have walk on parts in the bible. @Bluewolf you gonna take this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Kel 172 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I love the FA Cup and I find it a bit embarrassing that United were the club who first started resting players for FA Cup games because Ferguson missed all the seasons Liverpool won multiple trophies playing about 80 games a season with a 14 man squad but I don't think it warrants a 'Champions' League place. The competition is enough of a joke as it is with teams who can't even finish in the top three being welcomed without this nonsense. Bring back the old European trophy formats, earn your place in the Champions Cup by actually being champions and then teams who won't win the league will see it as a route into Europe by winning the cup. We all know why this will never happen but this is the only way this trophy will get the respect it deserves again. I personally hope United never excessively rest players for the FA Cup again and if other teams want to play kids we'll just batter them and progress. I think Chelsea probably have the best attitude towards the cup and it is reflected in their impressive recent success in the competition. Personally, I am gutted that Arsenal have overtaken us in FA Cup wins, was gutted to lose the final last season and will be gutted if/when we go out this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 12 hours ago, Salford Kel said: I love the FA Cup and I find it a bit embarrassing that United were the club who first started resting players for FA Cup games because Ferguson missed all the seasons Liverpool won multiple trophies playing about 80 games a season with a 14 man squad but I don't think it warrants a 'Champions' League place. The competition is enough of a joke as it is with teams who can't even finish in the top three being welcomed without this nonsense. Bring back the old European trophy formats, earn your place in the Champions Cup by actually being champions and then teams who won't win the league will see it as a route into Europe by winning the cup. We all know why this will never happen but this is the only way this trophy will get the respect it deserves again. I personally hope United never excessively rest players for the FA Cup again and if other teams want to play kids we'll just batter them and progress. I think Chelsea probably have the best attitude towards the cup and it is reflected in their impressive recent success in the competition. Personally, I am gutted that Arsenal have overtaken us in FA Cup wins, was gutted to lose the final last season and will be gutted if/when we go out this year Personal preference I guess. I personally think the highest European competition should have the best teams. It's harder to finish in the top 6 in England than win the Scottish League for example. So for me it makes sense for a team that doesn't win the league in England to get a place ahead of the Scottish champions. That being said the current format does make the gap in the leagues quality and finances bigger. However there have always been league's that have normally been stronger. There are things a lot of people don't like about modern football. However sometimes you have to except it and try to make the best out of it. It would lovely for the cup to be like it was but it won't happen unless change is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 799 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: Personal preference I guess. I personally think the highest European competition should have the best teams. It's harder to finish in the top 6 in England than win the Scottish League for example. So for me it makes sense for a team that doesn't win the league in England to get a place ahead of the Scottish champions. That being said the current format does make the gap in the leagues quality and finances bigger. However there have always been league's that have normally been stronger. There are things a lot of people don't like about modern football. However sometimes you have to except it and try to make the best out of it. It would lovely for the cup to be like it was but it won't happen unless change is made. Champions League becomes a closed shop and then criticise the smaller nations for not being so competitive. It's almost as if one has led to the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,640 Posted February 20, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 20, 2019 Imagine Portsmouth being in the Champions League that season after they won the cup. Wigan as well as a Championship side. Millwall would have been in as well as if the FA Cup winner was already in the top three going by the current rules for a Europa League spot, the fourth Champions League place would go to the losing finalist rather than 4th place in the Premier League, unless they changed that part too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 799 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 hours ago, RandoEFC said: Imagine Portsmouth being in the Champions League that season after they won the cup. Wigan as well as a Championship side. Millwall would have been in as well as if the FA Cup winner was already in the top three going by the current rules for a Europa League spot, the fourth Champions League place would go to the losing finalist rather than 4th place in the Premier League, unless they changed that part too. The losing finalist rule was taken out when the Europa League was introduced. It was a ridiculous thing in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 19/02/2019 at 12:57, Salford Kel said: I love the FA Cup and I find it a bit embarrassing that United were the club who first started resting players for FA Cup games because Ferguson missed all the seasons Liverpool won multiple trophies playing about 80 games a season with a 14 man squad but I don't think it warrants a 'Champions' League place. The competition is enough of a joke as it is with teams who can't even finish in the top three being welcomed without this nonsense. Bring back the old European trophy formats, earn your place in the Champions Cup by actually being champions and then teams who won't win the league will see it as a route into Europe by winning the cup. We all know why this will never happen but this is the only way this trophy will get the respect it deserves again. I personally hope United never excessively rest players for the FA Cup again and if other teams want to play kids we'll just batter them and progress. I think Chelsea probably have the best attitude towards the cup and it is reflected in their impressive recent success in the competition. Personally, I am gutted that Arsenal have overtaken us in FA Cup wins, was gutted to lose the final last season and will be gutted if/when we go out this year I've been saying that for years although this probably isn't the thread to be getting too much into it. But this has come up time and again on here and there's no doubt in my mind, streamlining the 'Champions League' would also strengthen the Europa League. The UEFA Cup was a big trophy to win in the day, as was the Cup Winners Cup. Infact the latter was a great competition which in truth would be brilliant reward for a team winning the FA Cup as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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