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Michael Jackson

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Just watched the second part of the leaving Neverland documentary. What do  people think? I'm not sure I'm 50/50. I mean when I watched it they seemed convincing. But he isn't here to defend himself. I think if he is guilty others will come forward. Its just a case of whether they are credible or not

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I believe the lads tbh... although I might be biased because I've thought he was guilty for years.

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19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I believe the lads tbh... although I might be biased because I've thought he was guilty for years.

To be honest I wouldn't criticize anyone who thinks he is.  At the same time not as if they have nothing to gain. It did seem genuine however it's not proven. I don't agree with people who are saying he is definitely guilty. Some people have compared it to Jimmy saville however he was accused by over 450 women who were interviewed by the police and they have said they are convinced he was a serial sex abbuser. The evidence is no where near as strong at the moment for Jackson

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Given the guy is dead I just don't get the point of this documentary being made now and what it was trying to achieve...?

Is it for entertainment? 

Is it for the peace of mind of the two accusers?

Is it for the financial gain of those involved? 

Is it so the people around the world will no longer listen to or enjoy his music? 

So his kids won't be deluded in thinking their dad was a decent person?

Is it to deter other pedophiles? 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Harry said:

Is it for the financial gain of those involved? 

I'm pretty sure it's this. 

Apparently Wade Robson was very supportive of MJ in 2005 when there was that big case against him. They're apparently losing the appeal against the Jackson estate and therefore would owe them a lot of money. And this is one way of making a huge amount. 

I do agree it was pretty fucking weird that MJ would have young boys round far too regularly apparently and the reason of himself not having a proper childhood doesn't quite wash with me. 

Find it unsettling that it's only one side we get to here and MJ isn't here to defend himself, even though he pretty much was doing that for a lot of his life. The documentary is very one-sided and its no surprise its been released when a significant milestone is coming up of the anniversary of his death. Why wait til now to say anything? 

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I was never an MJ fan so I have not bothered about even watching the documentary and why bring all this up when the guy is dead and buried and can't defend himself but saying that when he was alive he had millions in the bank and a few cases that did arise then were paid off as out of court settlements as long as nothing was said so there must have been something going on.

Myself and the wife agree that the guy was a weirdo and something must have been going on but at this time of day in life the guy is dead so others from years gone by suddenly pop up out of the woodwork saying he did this and he did that when I stayed there at Graceland just to try and make a fast buck as the MJ estate nowadays is still worth millions.

Maybe he was a weirdo but maybe he did a gentle pat on a kids part of the body or maybe stroked his hair and all that was was a troubled guy with a lot of hidden emotion that needed to express himself by doing the latter, nowadays if you do that it is classed as sexual assault, as said before, MJ is dead and buried and he is not here to defend himself, when Elvis died rumours went around that he was still alive and faked his death and even at this time of day people still think he is still alive, the good old media do know how to sell a story MJ included.  :coffee:     

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I was already convinced that he's a pedo while he was still alive. But you also have to blame his father for making him fucked up in the head. 

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36 minutes ago, Stan said:

I'm pretty sure it's this. 

Apparently Wade Robson was very supportive of MJ in 2005 when there was that big case against him. They're apparently losing the appeal against the Jackson estate and therefore would owe them a lot of money. And this is one way of making a huge amount.  

I do agree it was pretty fucking weird that MJ would have young boys round far too regularly apparently and the reason of himself not having a proper childhood doesn't quite wash with me. 

Find it unsettling that it's only one side we get to here and MJ isn't here to defend himself, even though he pretty much was doing that for a lot of his life. The documentary is very one-sided and its no surprise its been released when a significant milestone is coming up of the anniversary of his death. Why wait til now to say anything?  

Did you say the same things about Saville?

Don't really care either way, his music is mainly awful so it'll be good to have it off the radio.

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Why are people pointing out he was a weirdo and what his music has to do with this ?

If they start doing these same investigations against many historical, political characters than you will see many famous characters had a very weird side to them. 

But since nationalistic and emotional sentiments of people are attached to them so no one dares. 

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He may have been a pedofile. 

He also made music that made alot of people happy, and was a source of inspiration to many in the 80's.

It frustrates me to think that great feel good music becomes another thing on the list of things people today are being told they can no longer enjoy. 

Put the guy in prison if he's guilty but posthumously taking the guy down just hurts the family and the decent portion of the general public who enjoyed his music as far as I can see. 

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And this has nothing to shame his legacy....

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I have

Billie Jeans, They Don't Care About Us Prison version, Smooth Criminal Berlin Concert, Hold My Hand and Thriller on my phone 

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36 minutes ago, Harry said:

He may have been a pedofile. 

He also made music that made alot of people happy, and was a source of inspiration to many in the 80's.

It frustrates me to think that great feel good music becomes another thing on the list of things people today are being told they can no longer enjoy. 

Put the guy in prison if he's guilty but posthumously taking the guy down just hurts the family and the decent portion of the general public who enjoyed his music as far as I can see. 

If you like the music, listen to it. Nobody is going to outright ban it. Arguing that they shouldn't destroy his legacy because it might spoil the music is bizarre though.

 

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I work for a group of radio stations and the whole decision to take off his music is bizarre. When he died, every station was playing his music but now because a documentary has come out that focuses on accusations that have always been made against him, we remove his music? 

 

Louis Theroux seems set that he was a paedophile.

Edited by Pyfish

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I don't know, he didn't ever strike me as a pedophile but rather as a deeply disturbed person who never had a chance to grow up and mature as he never had a childhood and was abused by his joke of a father for years, so he overcompensated for that with his childish Peter Pan like personality and the whole Neverland stuff and surrounding himself with kids who were similarly broken etc. Now of course I don't know if there was anything more sinister going on or if it was just disgustingly perverted by the media and the greedy parents of those kids back then so I don't feel like judging or defending him either way. 

As for his music, not really my taste though I do like a few songs of his.

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43 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

If you like the music, listen to it. Nobody is going to outright ban it. Arguing that they shouldn't destroy his legacy because it might spoil the music is bizarre though.

 

You don't believe people would be shamed by others to listen to his music now? That's the way of the world these days 

Or even if not would struggle to enjoy it anymore because you just see a pedophile who molests children?

 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

You don't believe people would be shamed by others to listen to his music now? That's the way of the world these days 

Or even if not would struggle to enjoy it anymore because you just see a pedophile who molests children?

 

I'm not sure what your point is, people shouldn't talk about Michael Jackson's sexual crimes because it might mean people don't enjoy his music anymore? The accusations are out there, it's down to you if you listen to his music and you're not guilty by association. I imagine people would feel uncomfortable, that's perfectly normal when people are associated with sexual crimes of this nature.

I've seen varying levels of reaction to this, most wildly emotional. It's perfectly possible that these children were real victims while simultaneously looking to exploit the situation too.

 

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Always though the was just an odd bloke. Not a paedo. 

Hypothetically speaking, the parents settled in court with him. If your child was molested, would you be satisfied with a check? Or would you go to hell and back to make sure the person that did it is rotting in a prison cell for all eternity?

Being a parent myself, I know which I would of choose. 

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It's difficult. Because of how he grew up, I do believe that he wasn't developed properly. He had this child like persona and seemingly could only relate to younger people. He was disturbed and it is very very wrong that he was allowed to take these kids with him on tour or have them around his house unsupervised. I just don't know if I can jump to the next step of him being a pedo. 

The two lads in this documentary were in their 20's when he was on trial in 2005. So either they are lying now or they lied then. But if they lied then, they willingly helped get a pedophile off, which is shameful. They strike me as having fuck all and needing the money, I don't believe a word they say because they've already shown themselves as lying bastard. 

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1 minute ago, Rick said:

It's difficult. Because of how he grew up, I do believe that he wasn't developed properly. He had this child like persona and seemingly could only relate to younger people. He was disturbed and it is very very wrong that he was allowed to take these kids with him on tour or have them around his house unsupervised. I just don't know if I can jump to the next step of him being a pedo. 

The two lads in this documentary were in their 20's when he was on trial in 2005. So either they are lying now or they lied then. But if they lied then, they willingly helped get a pedophile off, which is shameful. They strike me as having fuck all and needing the money, I don't believe a word they say because they've already shown themselves as lying bastard. 

Didn't his parents castrate him as well? To protect his voice?

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Many paedophiles are abused in childhood, it's a fairly common trajectory.

Settling in court has more of an implication on the accused, not the victim. Why would you pay someone off if you aren't guilty? Anyone can be bought off for the right amount.

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I'd have to see the documentary. Maybe this weekend. 

Do those boys go into detail what Michael did to them? Or was it merely, we slept together?

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Apparently it's quite graphic. I don't have an opinion either way really. I don't think justice is ever really done if the perpetrator is not alive, so all we will learn is that he got away with it if it's true. Although I suppose there's catharsis for victims.

 

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I didn't watch the documentary but I always believed he's a paedophile.

One of the biggest Polish radio stations announced today that they will not be playing Michael Jackson's music anymore what is ridiculous in my opinion; if they wanted to survey all musicians they would play no music at all. I wonder when I will hear one of John Lennon's songs in the same radio station. :ph34r:

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Personally I'm innocent until proven guilty.  I'm not sure if they are credible personally. I mean Wade Robson was grilled by a very highly regarded prosecution lawyer and he stuck to the story of Jackson being innocent. Also Jackson asked him to testify and he was his first witness. There are things that don't add up on both sides. 

If  lots of other people come forward and they don't appear to have an altereour motive and it  was proven beyond reasonable doubt I wouldn't personally listen to his music anymore but I don't think it is at the minute. 

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55 minutes ago, kapisevicius said:

I wonder when I will hear one of John Lennon's songs in the same radio station. :ph34r:

???

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Michael Jackson seemed good nature. Don't think he was a pedo, just an undeveloped man child who got along with children better than he did with adults.

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3 hours ago, Cicero said:

Always though the was just an odd bloke. Not a paedo. 

Hypothetically speaking, the parents settled in court with him. If your child was molested, would you be satisfied with a check? Or would you go to hell and back to make sure the person that did it is rotting in a prison cell for all eternity?

Being a parent myself, I know which I would of choose. 

3

Exactly, I know that's the first thing me and the wife would have done if it was one of our own children and saying that, our son & daughter are grown up with 3 young boys and if that did happen to anyone of their (our grandsons) then they would have done the same.

When I say weirdo then I mean in the sense a strange bloody guy, if people think that's another term for a paedo then that's up to their way of thinking, as for banning his music from the radio or whatever I would say no because the guy is not here to defend himself, imagine if we suddenly had a load of old time singers or present top singers who suddenly get accused of sexual abuse should we ban all their song too? if we did we might as well ban music altogether.

Jimmy Saville was a different story as many people suddenly voiced their opinion that he was a paedo after he had died and the story hit the headlines these people who worked with Saville in the media bit at the time voiced their opinion to the higher up's but it was all swept under the carpet.

After the Saville bit hit the headlines a lot of other music and media people suddenly got accused which a lot was proved but I don't think the likes of the tv channels would suddenly go through all the archives to make sure that a lot of their shows and appearances they were not shown on tv that would be a never-ending task, I am sure about 2 years ago they were showing old-time clips from 'Top of the Pops' me and the wife were watching and suddenly a shot of Saville popped up with a cigar talking about a singer coming up next, the wife said "FFS, turn that over, I don't want to see that bastards face, he makes me sick" I obliged and switched channels.  

Edited by CaaC - John

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I think people underestimate the pure greed of people and indifference to their own child's  best interests, people exploit their children's suffering all the time.

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Worth noting that both fathers of the victims committed suicide 

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