Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 45 minutes ago, Stan said: Yeah same. Really good game. Good defence from Ebbsfleet despite being near the bottom of the league! Halifax were poor given their high position in the league. They barely tested Ebbsfleet's keeper in the 2nd half. Was a proper underdog away performance in many respects but also, as you say, Halifax were poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,378 Posted March 26, 2020 Administrator Share Posted March 26, 2020 All football below National League Level (below North/South conferences) will end. No promotions or relegations. Must feel like such a waste of 7-8 months for those sides Quote All football in England below the three divisions that make up the National League will end immediately and all results will be expunged. It means there will be no promotion or relegation in these divisions. The same will happen in the women's game below the Women's Super League and Championship level. However, the National League, National League North and South, WSL and Women's Championship will continue towards a conclusion "as quickly as possible". "These are challenging circumstances for English football and all decisions taken are in the best interests of the game," said a Football Association statement. "Our primary concern will always be for the safety and welfare of clubs, players, staff, officials, volunteers and supporters during this unprecedented time. "Today's steps take into account the financial impact during this uncertain period, whilst considering the fairest method on how the sporting outcomes for the season will be decided, with the integrity of the leagues in mind." The decision applies to steps three to seven in men's non-league football, while all "grassroots" divisions below these tiers have also finished. It has still yet to be decided whether these seasons are to be voided. In women's football, tiers three to seven have also ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Jesus. I'd be seething if I supported a team at that level no matter where we sat in the league. Let's not forget there were teams already mathematically promoted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Probably the best thing for that level of the game. Below the Ryman Div One and the equivalent levels across the country, you then feed into county leagues and the many league AGM’s that happen each summer that decided whose in what league for the coming season, would be a quagmire of problems. Granted, there will be a small handful of clubs that feel hard done by at this time but is kicking off all worth it from a PR angle, even if these are small clubs with a couple of hundred fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Probably the best thing for that level of the game. Below the Ryman Div One and the equivalent levels across the country, you then feed into county leagues and the many league AGM’s that happen each summer that decided whose in what league for the coming season, would be a quagmire of problems. Granted, there will be a small handful of clubs that feel hard done by at this time but is kicking off all worth it from a PR angle, even if these are small clubs with a couple of hundred fans? Not strictly county-level until the two levels below that really; the likes of the Hellenic League have everyone from the Welsh Border to Berkshire, and the North West Counties cover from Cheshire to Cumbria. Anyway, as you say, most League AGMs are held in the summer. So why are we deciding up to three months before, when we have no idea what the prevailing situation will be in just one? Allocations aren't even decided until mid-May, so they can do jack shit before then anyway. Players at the lower levels won't even be on weekly contracts, just payments per game, so clubs aren't exactly wishing for the end to help their bank balances either. And, if they are to decide now, why expunge instead of basing a final table on points per game; which not only rewards and punishes teams accordingly, but actually means all of those who've sacrificed the time, money and resources to participate in this season actually get something to show for it? I dare say if this goes on long enough, which we may know in a couple of months, instead of jumping the gun, it may even have been viable to have one huge 19-21 season with everything still counted. What I worry for is the impact this decision has on the future of non league football. Not in terms of precedence particularly, but all of those local sponsors who plunged thousands, the lads who sacrifice the equivalent of two or three days a week to take part, all the managers and support staff who do it for the love of it, and all those who part with money to see it. All of that has been wasted. Hundreds of thousands of pounds and a similar amount of (voluntary!) man hours just vanish. You couldn't blame anyone for thinking 'what's the point anymore?'. In 2005 (I think!), the old Spennymoor's record being expunged ended up in the High Court. That was merely five or six teams kicking off at that one. Anyone who tries similar now will have a hell of a lot more backing. Sadly, against the FA (motto: For All, let's not forget) they won't have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Been giving this a bit more thought (I seem to have a lot of free time lately for some reason). Given the fact that Coronavirus is likely to return in waves and instances we likely can't specifically forecast, I think it makes sense to cancel the 20-21 season and play the remainder of 19-20 at a reduced pace (say one match per fortnight with friendlies or some form of cup competitions to fill the time if needed) to in theory conclude in say March 2021. We than have a nice long summer break, start a little earlier in summer 2021 to spread the season out a bit more, and take 21-22 from there. This means three things: 1) The season established so far does not go to waste; 2) We don't bank everything on 20-21 going swimmingly as per a normal July-May season with no disruption etc; 3) Given the sparsity of the football calendar, when Coronavirus does return, we can easily suspend football as necessary without having to worry again what to do this time around. I can't help but feel an attempt at a traditional 21-22 season would end up just as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 54 minutes ago, tlr said: Been giving this a bit more thought (I seem to have a lot of free time lately for some reason). Given the fact that Coronavirus is likely to return in waves and instances we likely can't specifically forecast, I think it makes sense to cancel the 20-21 season and play the remainder of 19-20 at a reduced pace (say one match per fortnight with friendlies or some form of cup competitions to fill the time if needed) to in theory conclude in say March 2021. We than have a nice long summer break, start a little earlier in summer 2021 to spread the season out a bit more, and take 21-22 from there. This means three things: 1) The season established so far does not go to waste; 2) We don't bank everything on 20-21 going swimmingly as per a normal July-May season with no disruption etc; 3) Given the sparsity of the football calendar, when Coronavirus does re turn, we can easily suspend football as necessary without having to worry again what to do this time around. I can't help but feel an attempt at a traditional 21-22 season would end up just as this one. Not sure you can do that, tbh. A game per fortnight just isn’t enough for non-league clubs, even with a few tournaments thrown in. I think whatever decision taken would have opened a can of worms and I suppose it was about finding the decision that opened the smallest of those cans. I do wonder how much the decision made at this level was discussed with the immediate level(s) above them. With no season, the National League North and South’s relegation battles are obsolete (which will please seven clubs at the bottom of the South), which has its positives and negatives. Do they now carry their seasons on? At that level you have a wider Geographical spread of clubs, so multiple games a week would be a strain. I just think logistically resuming the season with ten to twelve normal games left then sorting the play-off’s would just be a huge strain on clubs physically and financially and the welfare of their players, who are all part-time and two to four games a week for an extended period would be a massive ask. Is the best thing to do to cancel the season and then clubs generate zero income when they were expecting x amount from these postponed games? It’s a difficult one. I thought that these levels would probably look at a points per game average to determine league tables but that opens up another can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Regarding the National League, I cant imagine anybody other than Stevenage would complain if they were replaced by Barrow. Stevenage are toast this season whilst Barrow have (albeit not very large) breathing space at the top. The other promotion space would be more difficult as everybody from Torquay to above would have a claim to say they had a slight chance of making the playoffs. That's fourteen teams. There is however 18 points that separate them so the likes of Harrogate should rightly have more chance of occupying the final place than the likes of Bromley. I'd consider two knockout tournaments. The first being from the teams ranked 8th to 15th that would look like this. G1: 8th vs 15th G2: 9th vs 14th G3: 10th vs 13th G4: 11th vs 12th 'Qualifier A' - G1 winner vs G4 winner 'Qualifier B' - G2 winner vs G3 winner Once that's completed youd then have.. 2nd vs Qualifier B winner 3rd vs Qualifier A winner 4th vs 7th 5th vs 6th Then from those fixtures you would have your four playoff teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 20 hours ago, The Palace Fan said: Regarding the National League, I cant imagine anybody other than Stevenage would complain if they were replaced by Barrow. Stevenage are toast this season whilst Barrow have (albeit not very large) breathing space at the top. The other promotion space would be more difficult as everybody from Torquay to above would have a claim to say they had a slight chance of making the playoffs. That's fourteen teams. There is however 18 points that separate them so the likes of Harrogate should rightly have more chance of occupying the final place than the likes of Bromley. I'd consider two knockout tournaments. The first being from the teams ranked 8th to 15th that would look like this. G1: 8th vs 15th G2: 9th vs 14th G3: 10th vs 13th G4: 11th vs 12th 'Qualifier A' - G1 winner vs G4 winner 'Qualifier B' - G2 winner vs G3 winner Once that's completed youd then have.. 2nd vs Qualifier B winner 3rd vs Qualifier A winner 4th vs 7th 5th vs 6th Then from those fixtures you would have your four playoff teams. You’d almost certainly have to do the same across all three National Leagues and that would be daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: You’d almost certainly have to do the same across all three National Leagues and that would be daft. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said: Any suggestions? I’m not sure there is a right answer that satisfies everyone. I’m also not sure that it actually matters at all given what’s going on here at the minute. I find it a bit distasteful that there’s people really that are see about Football and are having a whinge about it at the minute. These people and their teams have scored a major PR own goal by having a moan. Granted these non-league teams aren’t going to lose their “official tyre partner” or “beer provider” like a Manchester United or a Liverpool would in this situation but in the list of things that are important, whether a football club with a couple of hundred fans are playing in the ninth tier of English Football or the eight just really isn’t important. I wouldn’t be averse to seeing football voided for this season personally. The preservation of life and prevention of this virus is more important than the remaining ten or so games of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Football is utterly irrelevant at the best of times. This however is a football forum, so it is safe to assume people will still discuss the thing regardless of the wider world. I'm still emotionally invested in it to take my mind off the fact our actual existance is fundamentally fucked until further notice. I think what is irksome for most is two things - firstly, the timing, when they could easily leave have left it for two months and potentially established a better solution or fairer or more accurate way of proceeding. That's before you even begin to address the claims from some quarters that there was no actual consultation. Secondly, the fact that the decision reached is by far and away the least hassle, ergo most convenient, for the FA. For me, as with anything right now involving local or community assets (everything from independent pubs to one man companies to grassroots sports to community facilities), they require the same thing - protection by their authorities and every reasonable step taken to ensure they don't get fucked, so when all is done we still have something to come back to. On this basis, the backings that seems to be forming in non league circles are entirely justified. But hey, if these are all tinpot non entities then surely no one will notice their pathetic little uprisings anyway. How many people right now know or care that South Shields are kicking off? A lot of non league teams know a lot better than to commit suicide in such a manner you imply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,378 Posted March 30, 2020 Administrator Share Posted March 30, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52098137 Quote Sixty-six non-league clubs have sent an open letter to the Football Association, calling for it to "urgently" reconsider the decision to expunge their seasons. Some MPs have also told clubs they will write to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport asking for intervention in what one described as a "disappointing" decision. It was announced last week that football in England below the National League's three divisions would end immediately with results expunged. It means there will be no promotion or relegation in these 91 leagues. The same applies in the women's game below the Women's Super League and Championship level. The decision is yet to be ratified by the FA Council. Sport has been decimated by the coronavirus pandemic, with fixtures suspended earlier this month. The letter says: "Our concern is grounded primarily in the needless and inexplicable haste exercised in reaching the decision, coupled with a total lack of substantive dialogue or consultation with affected clubs. "The decision also disregards the millions of pounds invested and countless hours expended collectively by clubs, and so has critical financial implications. "In writing this joint letter, we recognise that the decision to expunge results for the 2019-20 season still pends official ratification from the FA Council. "However, we believe it is unacceptable that such a decision has been handed down to us in this manner. We urgently seek constructive dialogue with the FA with the aim to have the decision reconsidered." BBC Sport has seen communication between clubs and their local MPs demonstrating that they have written, or will be writing, to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport on this issue. The letter says that if there is no consensus reached with the clubs, they will "embark on potential legal recourse". In a statement, the FA said: "The decision taken to end the 2019-20 season across steps 3-7 of the National League system, the women's football pyramid and the wider grassroots game was made by committee representatives for the respective leagues, and was supported by the FA Board and the FA Women's Board. "It will now go to the FA Council for ratification. We fully support the decision they came to during these challenging and unprecedented circumstances for English football." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Pyfish+ 2,773 Posted March 31, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted March 31, 2020 National League, North & South suspended indefinitely: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52092442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Confirmed as null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) National League have voted to end the season. I believe another vote now follows on how to conclude the season - null and void or PPG, and whether play offs happen with the latter (and indeed if anyone does go up or down). Edited April 22, 2020 by tlr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Sort of expected it after levels 3-6 ended their season. Think it’s only fair to promote Barrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Sort of expected it after levels 3-6 ended their season. Think it’s only fair to promote Barrow. I agree entirely but there's understandably a lot of noise from Harrogate and Notts County fans about it; despite Barrow being top since autumn and still reasonably clear they still had to play Harrogate (at Harrogate I think), coupled with the argument of 'you can't prove they'd get the PPG predicted'... I don't see how you can do it any other way though. Scotland settled it by forecasted champions, ditto Belgium, and I expect a hell of a lot more come summer. You can literally either expunge it or make a reasonable forecast. If the latter, you cannot reasonably have anyone but Barrow. Seen a rumour it may be that the remaining NL sides vote on who to promote. That could be carnage to say the least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Only thing with promoting Barrow is it leaves a 23 team National League going forward, so you’d have to promote from below step three and I’m not sure you can do that because steps 3-7 have voided their seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Barrow promoted to the Football League, Kings Lynn Town and Wealdstone promoted to the National League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Pyfish+ 2,773 Posted June 18, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted June 18, 2020 Happy with Barrow coming up. Another ground I've not been to and hopefully will make it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 The FA and government have given non-league football the green light to return in September, with pre-season games allowed from August. Not sure if this includes fans, if it does, I will get to a few games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Brilliant news. The FAQ attached to that FA statement says fans can return (usually maximum group of six, socially distanced etc) without qualifying when from as far as I can tell. Here's hoping that means August! Edit - above is for Grassroots only. The link to the National League and women's advice is broken... Edit again - from the National League it seems as though it'll be the October stuff that was announced the other day. Like most things from the government in this pandemic the whole thing's clear as mud! Edited July 18, 2020 by tlr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, tlr said: Brilliant news. The FAQ attached to that FA statement says fans can return (usually maximum group of six, socially distanced etc) without qualifying when from as far as I can tell. Here's hoping that means August! Edit - above is for Grassroots only. The link to the National League and women's advice is broken... Edit again - from the National League it seems as though it'll be the October stuff that was announced the other day. Like most things from the government in this pandemic the whole thing's clear as mud! What step does the October stuff go down to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr 167 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: What step does the October stuff go down to? I have no idea. Like I implied above, this whole thing seems so ill-defined. Is Grassroots just Sunday morning stuff, county FA level? Hopefully will become clearly as we go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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