2019 MLS Golden Boot Winner: Carlos Vela

[Guest]

Just for the record, I rate Vela very highly, but his numbers are diluted by him playing in a somewhat poor league. That doesn't mean much to me and I think Vela and Guerrero are the closest thing to world class in this part of the world, both could easily play in Europe and for relatively strong sides.

Vela and Paolo are the 2 best strikers in the America's. Only Ibra comes close to them 2. Pratto and Gabigol are great too but I'm not sure either could succeed in Europe and that for me is a big barometer.

[Eco]

Just a forewarning, let's keep this clean and avoid any personal attacks. 

For the record though, I'd pick Vela over anyone in the Americas. Not only is he a leader, but he can distribute almost better than he can score. Rossi, his teammate, is 4th in the goal scorers table, and almost all of his goals have come up plays set up by Vela. 

Vela biggest downside, is his health, so as long as he is healthy, he is the best all around player in the MLS (probably ever), and probably in the entire Americas. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 06/10/2019 at 14:52, Teso dos Bichos said:

Vela is Consistent!! best striker in the whole western hemisphere 

What about Gignac?

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 07/10/2019 at 09:33, Eco said:

Just a forewarning, let's keep this clean and avoid any personal attacks. 

For the record though, I'd pick Vela over anyone in the Americas. Not only is he a leader, but he can distribute almost better than he can score. Rossi, his teammate, is 4th in the goal scorers table, and almost all of his goals have come up plays set up by Vela. 

Vela biggest downside, is his health, so as long as he is healthy, he is the best all around player in the MLS (probably ever), and probably in the entire Americas. 

If I could make a front 3 out of players just playing in the Americas it'd be:

Rossi - Gignac - Vela

And it'd be fucking great.

[Teso dos Bichos]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If I could make a front 3 out of players just playing in the Americas it'd be:

Rossi - Gignac - Vela

And it'd be fucking great.

Now this is someone who knows their shit... that's a lethal front three, raul r. And Paolo would have a hard time even getting minutes as substitutes if those guys were ahead of them. 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If I could make a front 3 out of players just playing in the Americas it'd be:

Rossi - Gignac - Vela

And it'd be fucking great.

I’d say Gignac isn’t even top 3 atm.

Vela, Ibra, Guerrero, Pratto and Gabigol rank ahead.

[Teso dos Bichos]

Gignac is a beast. 163 games 96 goals for tigres

Guerrero- 72 games 22 goals 

That's in the same span of years  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Gignac is a beast. 163 games 96 goals for tigres

Guerrero- 72 games 22 goals 

That's in the same span of years  

Its OK. I know its hard for someone close minded like you to understand how tactical football works. Keep trying kiddo.

[Teso dos Bichos]

Tactical works  what's the goal ratio for those two players ??? FACTS , F A C T S... sugarcoat it how you want but what you cant sugar coat is that only a PUSSY runs from a group of people... I came over from mexico with zero english and had no problem with the other students and I have no problem getting pussy.... the only thing you have is the internet. 

[Guest]

The only “facts” here are that you are about 15 years old and know nothing about football. Keep trying kiddo, I use my eyes to judge footballers.

[Teso dos Bichos]

163 games and 96 goals 

72 games 22 goals!!

Unless Paolo is also the water boy or gives the whole team blowjobs during HT, those numbers are BEYOND pathetic... 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I’d say Gignac isn’t even top 3 atm.

Vela, Ibra, Guerrero, Pratto and Gabigol rank ahead.

Vela and Ibra, I'll give you. There's at least an argument to make about either of them being in the top 3. But they also play MLS football, whereas Gignac's in Mexico playing at an ever so slightly higher standard. So I think that's worth something. But those 2 are reasonable shouts.

Guerrero's goal record, though, has never ever screamed "top striker" unless you consider that brief spell at Bayern Munich. Not to say he's a bad player, because I don't think he's a bad player - although I've not seen much of him. But to say he's better than Gignac is mental imo. Just look at Gignac's record in Mexico. Guerrero plays in Brazil, which I'm told is a higher standard than Mexican football, so we can consider that as well... but the goal records man. They speak for themselves. You've gotta be around scoring 1 in 2 if you want to be considered one of the best imo.

Gabigol's someone I've not seen a lot of. And his goal record with Flamengo is particularly impressive. But I'll say this (and it may be too Eurocentric to be reasonable) - he's 23 and not playing in Europe despite being signed by Inter Milan. "But Gonzo, this is about the Americas"... yeah whatever, I'm still going to judge him negatively based on that fact.

Pratto has 7 goals in 33 games for River Plate  - he's also 31 and has never really had anywhere near as impressive of a goal record as ANY of the players listed here. He was shit in Italy, but Vela was shit in England (and alright in Spain) but then came to MLS and really tore it apart. No way he deserves to be in the conversation.

Gabriel Barbosa's probably your best shout there... but if we're judging them on the here and now, I think Gignac comes ahead.

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Vela and Ibra, I'll give you. There's at least an argument to make about either of them being in the top 3. But they also play MLS football, whereas Gignac's in Mexico playing at an ever so slightly higher standard. So I think that's worth something. But those 2 are reasonable shouts.

Guerrero's goal record, though, has never ever screamed "top striker" unless you consider that brief spell at Bayern Munich. Not to say he's a bad player, because I don't think he's a bad player - although I've not seen much of him. But to say he's better than Gignac is mental imo. Just look at Gignac's record in Mexico. Guerrero plays in Brazil, which I'm told is a higher standard than Mexican football, so we can consider that as well... but the goal records man. They speak for themselves. You've gotta be around scoring 1 in 2 if you want to be considered one of the best imo.

Gabigol's someone I've not seen a lot of. And his goal record with Flamengo is particularly impressive. But I'll say this (and it may be too Eurocentric to be reasonable) - he's 23 and not playing in Europe despite being signed by Inter Milan. "But Gonzo, this is about the Americas"... yeah whatever, I'm still going to judge him negatively based on that fact.

Pratto has 7 goals in 33 games for River Plate  - he's also 31 and has never really had anywhere near as impressive of a goal record as ANY of the players listed here. He was shit in Italy, but Vela was shit in England (and alright in Spain) but then came to MLS and really tore it apart. No way he deserves to be in the conversation.

Gabriel Barbosa's probably your best shout there... but if we're judging them on the here and now, I think Gignac comes ahead.

Mate, don’t be like Teso. Goals are very important for a striker but aren’t everything.

Without Guerrero, Peru wouldn’t be where they are now. He’s one of the most complete strikers on the continent. Sure he lacks some goal scoring instinct but everything else he does is so solid you almost forget about that. Also led Internacional to the Copa do Brasil final.

Pratto is a great striker as well. Was important in Rivers Libertadores win and didn’t look bad in the few chances he got for Argentina.

Gignac on the other hand rarely finishes top scorer in Mexico and was a huge lump up top in the last Euros. He’s a clutch player, but he doesn’t play in the highest standard and doesn’t offer as much as Paolo or Pratto imo.

[Guest]

@Dr. Gonzo Guerrero is like Benzema and Firmimo. Not exactly 20 goal a season strikers but are so much more important than just that. Supportive strikers. Being a 9 isn’t all about scoring goals.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

163 games and 96 goals 

72 games 22 goals!!

Unless Paolo is also the water boy or gives the whole team blowjobs during HT, those numbers are BEYOND pathetic... 

Again, I use my eyes to watch football, not numerical statistics.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Grizzly21 said:

Mate, don’t be like Teso. Goals are very important for a striker but aren’t everything.

Without Guerrero, Peru wouldn’t be where they are now. He’s one of the most complete strikers on the continent. Sure he lacks some goal scoring instinct but everything else he does is so solid you almost forget about that. Also led Internacional to the Copa do Brasil final.

Pratto is a great striker as well. Was important in Rivers Libertadores win and didn’t look bad in the few chances he got for Argentina.

Gignac on the other hand rarely finishes top scorer in Mexico and was a huge lump up top in the last Euros. He’s a clutch player, but he doesn’t play in the highest standard and doesn’t offer as much as Paolo or Pratto imo.

I'm not saying goals are everything, but for a striker they're a big part of what makes people consider a striker a top striker.

And you can say without Guerrero, Peru wouldn't be where they are now... but I'm going to be honest, I find international football to be universally a lower standard than club football. Which makes sense, because with club football you've got players that are working with each other day in day out, they end up learning each other inside and out, and I'm willing to bet most decent club sides would shit over many international sides. But you raise a decent point, so let me take your point and reframe it a bit.

Without Gignac, Tigres wouldn't be where they are now. He's one of the best strikers in Mexico and aside from his goals, his hold-up play is incredibly important to Tigres.

And no mate, I'm not having that Pratto is a great striker. He might be a good player in the sides he's been on, but we're talking about the best striker in the Americas. Stats aren't everything, but they do tell you a decent amount of information. His stats aren't the stats of a great player. He may do more than the stats really demonstrate... but the stats tell the story of a journeyman striker that utterly failed when he made the step up to Europe, so he came back to his comfort zone but never really had even one "great" season.

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not saying goals are everything, but for a striker they're a big part of what makes people consider a striker a top striker.

And you can say without Guerrero, Peru wouldn't be where they are now... but I'm going to be honest, I find international football to be universally a lower standard than club football. Which makes sense, because with club football you've got players that are working with each other day in day out, they end up learning each other inside and out, and I'm willing to bet most decent club sides would shit over many international sides. But you raise a decent point, so let me take your point and reframe it a bit.

Without Gignac, Tigres wouldn't be where they are now. He's one of the best strikers in Mexico and aside from his goals, his hold-up play is incredibly important to Tigres.

And no mate, I'm not having that Pratto is a great striker. He might be a good player in the sides he's been on, but we're talking about the best striker in the Americas. Stats aren't everything, but they do tell you a decent amount of information. His stats aren't the stats of a great player. He may do more than the stats really demonstrate... but the stats tell the story of a journeyman striker that utterly failed when he made the step up to Europe, so he came back to his comfort zone but never really had even one "great" season.

The Gignac statement is wrong, because Tigres were already successful without him. Peru on the other hand, was and is an average at best team and can’t succeed without a top player. That player is Guerrero. We have won games without him, but it becomes such a problem when he’s not around because nobody else on the team is anywhere near elite. They are just a solid group that are technically gifted but none of them would play for a club like Liverpool or City for example. All mid table players at best.

Cant agree with Pratto either. Winning the Libertadores is no small feat and much bigger and tougher than the Liga MX or the MLS. Pratto was such an important part of Rivers convincing continental win last year.

[Dr. Gonzo]

14 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

The Gignac statement is wrong, because Tigres were already successful without him. Peru on the other hand, was and is an average at best team and can’t succeed without a top player. That player is Guerrero. We have won games without him, but it becomes such a problem when he’s not around because nobody else on the team is anywhere near elite. They are just a solid group that are technically gifted but none of them would play for a club like Liverpool or City for example. All mid table players at best.

Cant agree with Pratto either. Winning the Libertadores is no small feat and much bigger and tougher than the Liga MX or the MLS. Pratto was such an important part of Rivers convincing continental win last year.

The cool thing about opinions is we can have different opinions and there's no real way to prove whether or not either of us are right, we can just present our best arguments. Which I've given and also which you've given. I respect your points, I just don't agree. I'm sure you're the same.

And I'm not saying Pratto's a bad player, by any means. I don't think you play for River Plate if you're bad. And he's played for some massive South American sides. I just don't think his goal record puts him in the conversation as one of the Americas top strikers (and I know you disagree, and that goals aren't everything) - but he's clearly got enough quality about him to make it at big South American sides as an important player.

[Guest]

Yeah I respect your points @Dr. Gonzo. We can agree to disagree in that case.

[Eco]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If I could make a front 3 out of players just playing in the Americas it'd be:

Rossi - Gignac - Vela

And it'd be fucking great.

I was thinking that it would be deadly with the following as well

Rossi - J. Martinez

          Vela