Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted June 30, 2019 Administrator Share Posted June 30, 2019 Well done Max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,608 Posted June 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2019 I'm glad. I don't want Charles first win to be like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted June 30, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 30, 2019 Probably the right thing for the sport in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I reckon in near equal cars, rough Max would destroy mommy boy Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,608 Posted June 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, MUFC said: I reckon in near equal cars, rough Max would destroy mommy boy Charles. Mommy boy? How do you come to that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted June 30, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 30, 2019 Classy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 If the Honda can come good with RB, Ferrari get it togeather and McLaren develope well. It be brilliant, even better if Lewis and Vettel piss off and George gets into the Merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,608 Posted June 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, MUFC said: If the Honda can come good with RB, Ferrari get it togeather and McLaren develope well. It be brilliant, even better if Lewis and Vettel piss off and George gets into the Merc. Answer my question, coward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Tommy said: Answer my question, coward! I don't speak without my solicitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 RB ran the Honda engine near enough qualy mode for aroubd 12 laps without blowing up, am impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted June 30, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 30, 2019 It's obviously great for Honda but they were still lacking against Ferrari on the straights. Gasly really struggling to get past an Alfa and a McLaren also doesn't reflect very well on their horsepower. They are getting there but this weekend is more of a reflection in Honda doing well out of swapping McLaren for Red Bull, rather than Red Bull doing well out of swapping Renault engines for Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted June 30, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Tommy said: All in all an amazing race though. 1-2 more laps and Seb would have caught Bottas. Never understand it when people say that. 1-2 laps less and Seb would have finished behind Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,608 Posted June 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, JOSHBRFC said: Never understand it when people say that. 1-2 laps less and Seb would have finished behind Lewis. I guess it's a German thing then. "Noch 1-2 Runden, und er hätte ihn gehabt!", but yea, you're right. It was just so close. Shame they botched Seb's first pit-stop as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted June 30, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: It's obviously great for Honda but they were still lacking against Ferrari on the straights. Gasly really struggling to get past an Alfa and a McLaren also doesn't reflect very well on their horsepower. They are getting there but this weekend is more of a reflection in Honda doing well out of swapping McLaren for Red Bull, rather than Red Bull doing well out of swapping Renault engines for Honda. Gasly struggling to get past Kimi and Norris had more to do with him than Honda's lack of horsepower, in my opinion. Not saying that their PU doesn't need more, they are still behind in terms of raw power and they are bringing more HP with every new upgrade but what I also noticed today in both cases was how early Gasly braked (and lost a few tenths on every corner) compared to the drivers of the cars he was trying to overtake. Also his tyre management was awful today. In terms of Ferrari still being faster on the straights, sure their engine is still more powerful but it can't be attributed solely to power though; it's more of a combination of power/top speed and grip, and Red Bull have been lacking grip throughout the season so far but started catching up with some of the aero modifications now. Their overall package seems to be getting better with each race. Honda have been making huge progress and they are just going to get better. The last two upgrades were about only a minimal peak power gain, as the focus was on reliability and the ability to run higher engine modes for longer in race trim. Sure this circuit (and weather conditions) suited them while the rest of the field seemed to have been struggling with problems like cooling and tyre management etc. but at any case this showed their potential. Max had some clipping issues at the start of the race but the efficiency of that engine is enormous; he was able to push continuously throughout the race and went on the highest power mode for over 10 rounds without any reliability issues and without any need to save fuel. That said, I expect that Silverstone will be much more difficult as Mercedes will be back to normal and colder temperatures mean that RB will probably struggle to get tyres into the working temperature. As for advantages (or lack thereof) of having Honda engines over the Renault ones... There are quite a few of them from my point of view. Performance wise, both a probably very similar at this point (although I personally see Honda ahead in terms of race pace). However, With Honda you don't have to pay for your engines and your engine supplier develops the engine according to your needs, listens to your feedback and provides you with all support you might need (as compared to buying Renault engines and having little to no input in the development process). So you have an actual working relationship and ongoing data exchange with a partner whose effort is dedicated to your team only (plus a testbed at Toro Rosso) and it's likely to be a much better option long-term than just buying engines from a rival team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just finished watching this race - and it might have been the best race of the year. Renault struggled all week and today was no different. I'll comment more on it later, but I'm not sure how Sebs loses in Canada but Max doesn't today? Quite honestly it looks like Max drove Charles off the course... Oh well, happy for Max, Honda, and F1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted July 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted July 1, 2019 @nudge good post, and I don't disagree with any of it, all I'm saying is that a lot of people seem to want to believe Honda have a better engine than Renault when that clearly isn't the case. McLaren are the most improved team this year, they're running a Renault engine. It's also evident in the speed trap data. It's not a criticism of Honda, they've come a long way, but in terms of horsepower they still have a bit further to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, RandoEFC said: @nudge good post, and I don't disagree with any of it, all I'm saying is that a lot of people seem to want to believe Honda have a better engine than Renault when that clearly isn't the case. McLaren are the most improved team this year, they're running a Renault engine. It's also evident in the speed trap data. It's not a criticism of Honda, they've come a long way, but in terms of horsepower they still have a bit further to go. I have an idea where you coming from, you saying engines are on par but RB have an edge due to car design and a higher budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Wonder how Alonso would get on in this McLaren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted July 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted July 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Eco said: Just finished watching this race - and it might have been the best race of the year. Renault struggled all week and today was no different. I'll comment more on it later, but I'm not sure how Sebs loses in Canada but Max doesn't today? Quite honestly it looks like Max drove Charles off the course... Oh well, happy for Max, Honda, and F1. They went into the corner wheel to wheel, with the difference being that Max had the inside and was marginally ahead at both the apex and corner exit and while it is hard racing, I don't see anything wrong with the overtake as he was keeping a normal line as they came into contact and banged wheels. Nothing but a racing incident. Could he have left more space for Charles? Sure, why would he though? Leclerc should have defended the inside in the first place instead of leaving the door wide open and going round the outside where he was going to run out of tarmac sooner or later. I take it he did it because he had better traction on the outside and because that worked in his favour one lap before that, but in most cases if you take that route while you're defending your position and you're not ahead of your attacker, you're going to lose it. Kudos to him for defending his position well and fending off Max on numerous occasions; that was a joy to watch and I hope to see more of the same in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, nudge said: They went into the corner wheel to wheel, with the difference being that Max had the inside and was marginally ahead at both the apex and corner exit and while it is hard racing, I don't see anything wrong with the overtake as he was keeping a normal line as they came into contact and banged wheels. Nothing but a racing incident. Could he have left more space for Charles? Sure, why would he though? Leclerc should have defended the inside in the first place instead of leaving the door wide open and going round the outside where he was going to run out of tarmac sooner or later. I take it he did it because he had better traction on the outside and because that worked in his favour one lap before that, but in most cases if you take that route while you're defending your position and you're not ahead of your attacker, you're going to lose it. Kudos to him for defending his position well and fending off Max on numerous occasions; that was a joy to watch and I hope to see more of the same in the future. It was a joy - but I would say that Sebs was also defending his position after reentering the track (and not having full control), yet was given a 5 second penalty. These two are both 'racing incidents' to me and I wish there was MORE of it without the FIAA getting involved. Yesterday was everything that France wasn't. Such a stellar race on all fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted July 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Eco said: It was a joy - but I would say that Sebs was also defending his position after reentering the track (and not having full control), yet was given a 5 second penalty. These two are both 'racing incidents' to me and I wish there was MORE of it without the FIAA getting involved. Yesterday was everything that France wasn't. Such a stellar race on all fronts. You can't compare the two incidents. Vettel was penalised for rejoining the track unsafely after his own mistake and not for pushing another car off track or defending his position. I think that penalty was a joke as well as he was sliding through the grass and didn't have full control of the car not to mention that he was still well ahead of Hamilton but there are barely any similarities between the two incidents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted July 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 hours ago, MUFC said: I have an idea where you coming from, you saying engines are on par but RB have an edge due to car design and a higher budget? I think Renault still has more power than Honda. Red Bull had major reliability problems with the Renault though whereas Honda are only making engines for Red Bull so will develop their engine based on Red Bull's requirements, which was never the case with Renault as they were building an engine for their own car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,497 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I think Renault still has more power than Honda. Red Bull had major reliability problems with the Renault though whereas Honda are only making engines for Red Bull so will develop their engine based on Red Bull's requirements, which was never the case with Renault as they were building an engine for their own car. Maybe it be better for Renault if they just bacame an engine supplier again rather then a works team. This way they can throw all their resources into the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, nudge said: You can't compare the two incidents. Vettel was penalised for rejoining the track unsafely after his own mistake and not for pushing another car off track or defending his position. I think that penalty was a joke as well as he was sliding through the grass and didn't have full control of the car not to mention that he was still well ahead of Hamilton but there are barely any similarities between the two incidents! Oh yeah - I understand that there wasn't a lot of similarities, but just to a NEWB like myself, neither are penalties in racing. Regardless, how incredible of a drive by Max. Stalls to start the race and loses at least 5 spots, stays out longer on his tires, and then clearly was the fastest driver on the course for the last 20 laps. If Max hadn't of passed him there, he would have eventually. Charles had a great drive, but he wasn't getting the speed or grip that Max was by the race's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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