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3 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Yes they can but I'll tell you a story to make you feel better. So, me in my infinite wisdom, decided to remove the pickguard on my Fender Precision Bass. Fairly simple process that doesn't even require you to take the strings off the bass. I go about my business, removing the knobs off the pots, the plate and replace it. I am extremely careful to replace things in order and do everything right. Put it back in and leave it as I had to step out. Come back home about 5 hours later, plug it in to do a sound check and lo-and-behold it stops making any kind noise. 

I take the plate off again, check all the wiring to the pots and its all fine so I screw it back in and then find out that its still not making noise. So im now sitting there scratching my head and i notice the knob on the tone control is a bit loose so I push down on it while the instrument is connected to the amp and all of a sudden i hear a little click so I pluck a string and no sound. I push it down again and then i hit a string and it starts making noise. Turns out there was one wire which was touching a non-shielded part and it totally messed my sound up. This is why I tell people its okay to take the pickups off to inspect them because chances are something has gotten a bit corroded and a little wipe and replace does the job. 

Oh yeah, there's a good chance something's corroded - the pickups have gotten noticeably more corroded. And I sweat a decent amount when I play... and my house is just a few blocks away from the bay, so the ocean is right there making the air more moist than it probably would be if I were further inland.

I think I'll have to take the strings off though, which is very fucking annoying as I put a new set on them on Saturday.

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Try this for your pickups too and you can follow some weird advice I've seen all over where some people use clear lacquer (very very little) and rub it over the surface of plated pickups when they want to avoid rusting due to salt corrosion. I'd just lean them with what the professionals use and from what I am seeing this bottle can be used for your guitar surface too to clean it so its a double nice thing to have. I clean my guitars once every 6 months and while its painful I am happy to say I have not had any pickups develop gunk on them that gets to the point where I think they look like they are going to fail on me ... yet.

 

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I've never cleaned my pickups, mostly because I've seen the state of Tony Iommi's pickups and thought "well if he doesn't give a shit about how they look, I don't either." xD But if the corrosion might be killing my pickups, that'll definitely be something I invest in. I've more been worried about other corrosion in my guitar maintenance - mostly on the bridges/tailpiece, because I don't want rusting to fuck up my ability to intonate the guitar properly. And that's always been a pain in the arse to do, because it's something that usually means I'll have to the bridges and tailpiece off because I don't want to get any shit on the guitar's body. But something that cleans off oxidation & can also clean the guitar's surface.

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I've never cleaned my pickups, mostly because I've seen the state of Tony Iommi's pickups and thought "well if he doesn't give a shit about how they look, I don't either." xD But if the corrosion might be killing my pickups, that'll definitely be something I invest in. I've more been worried about other corrosion in my guitar maintenance - mostly on the bridges/tailpiece, because I don't want rusting to fuck up my ability to intonate the guitar properly. And that's always been a pain in the arse to do, because it's something that usually means I'll have to the bridges and tailpiece off because I don't want to get any shit on the guitar's body. But something that cleans off oxidation & can also clean the guitar's surface.

I used to have a Pacifica that had such terrible rust and made the most awesome cat screech that I never wanted to lose. Then I got lazy and let the bridge get that way too. Lesson learned. In all honesty that plate does so little to the actual pickup running well if its mild corrosion but you add salt to any humidity and my ears go up when people tell me they've never cleaned their pickups haha. 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Nice read. Found out in the comments that in the intro on the second bar they actually skip a beat and start the chord again. It's so subtle but man once you find it then it irks the living shit out of you.

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@Mel81x after pulling my pickups and cleaning them off... I am sad to report the neck pickup on my SG doesn’t work.

On the plus side, I’ve somehow managed to convince MXR to fix my 10-band at no cost other than paying for the shipping. Even though I’m a few years out of the warranty period

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Figure I'd post this here as the project has already started but I think it might help some people who still have traditional pedal boards or just pedals on a mat. I have been struggling lately to build what I'd like to call an OMNI-BOARD. Now, the reason for this is that I have recently started playing guitar and bass with the band and I didn't want to lug around two blocks of pedals just because its totally unrequired imo. The pedals I chose for this little project are the following.

  • BOSS - TU-3 - Tuning Block - Its not the traditional pedal type and is smaller but I figure its one of the most, if not the most important, pedal in the chain before we get to the more fun stuff.
  • TC Electronics - SPECTRA COMP - Bass Compressor
  • TC Electronics - Spark - Boost Pedal
  • BOSS DS1 - Distortion Pedal - Anniversary Black Ed.
  • BOSS Super OverDrive - SD-1 - Overdrive Pedal
  • Darkglass Electronics - Vintage Deluxe - Bass Distortion / Tube Sim pedal
  • TC Electronics - Sub N Up - Octave Pedal for Bass (Could be technically used for a guitar but I can't see why)
  • BOSS RC-3 - Loop Station - For running loops when I want to 
  • Strymon Timeline - Delay Pedal

I am also thinking of adding the following two more pedals to the board for completeness

  • TC Electronics - Hall of Fame 2 - Reverb
  • Electro-Harmonix Sovtek Deluxe Big Muff Pi 

Now, the challenge for me is pretty simple but not so simple too. I want to run the entire block on maybe two small ISO blocks and use them in some kind of fashion where I can actually run the guitar and the bass on the same board. Most of the reverb and distortion/overdrive are mostly guitar pedals but the Fuzz, Spark, Tuning Pedal and Delay would be for both. It's doing my head in on how I achieve this. I know most of us are single instrument players but if you had that at your disposal with a fairly big two-level pedalboard how would you go about it?

Edited by Mel81x
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4 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Now, the challenge for me is pretty simple but not so simple too. I want to run the entire block on maybe two small ISO blocks and use them in some kind of fashion where I can actually run the guitar and the bass on the same board. Most of the reverb and distortion/overdrive are mostly guitar pedals but the Fuzz, Spark, Tuning Pedal and Delay would be for both. It's doing my head in on how I achieve this. I know most of us are single instrument players but if you had that at your disposal with a fairly big two-level pedalboard how would you go about it?

At the same time?

Wouldn't only one of the instruments be able to use the tuner at one time? Or have you thought of a way around that... because if that's where the guitar and bass signal both enter the chain - I don't know how you'd be able to have both instruments running through the same board and using the fuzz (wait... which pedal is your fuzz pedal? The DS-1?), spark, and delay.

I've got a TU-3... but the standard pedal one. That's got 1 input and 2 outputs (bypass & output). It looks like the TU-3 block you've got has just 1 input and 1 output, with 2 outputs I could see it being possible to have one output go to just the guitar pedals and another output going to the pedals you'd use for both instruments. The pitfall would be that the pedals on a "Bypass" output wouldn't cut the signal when you push the pedal in. Which tbh... looks like the default setting is for that TU-3 block - so maybe  you wouldn't mind that.

Doesn't really help you mind as you've got just the one output on your pedal.

If you didn't mean running the guitar & bass at the same time... then that's a different question entirely. And then I guess my next question would be, do you plan on running any pedals through an amp's effects loop? Or is everything just going to be running in front of the amp.

Does that version of the DS-1 work more like a fuzz pedal than the traditional DS-1 distortion sound? Because fuzz pedals are weird (I love the way they sound when someone who knows how to use one - unfortunately, unless my signal chain is just Guitar > Fuzz > Amp I've never really bonded with a fuzz pedal. The one's I've used seem to hate coming after pedals with buffers. And the Boss tuner pedal I've got has a buffer in it - so coming after that really changes how the signal comes out in a really unpleasant way). OH! You must mean the potential EHX Muff you'd be getting for the fuzz - because that's definitely a fuzz pedal.

Fuzz pedals are tricky as shit and you might have to try them at various points in the signal chain to see where it ends up producing the best sound. So whatever signal path recommendation I'd make to you, I'd probably leave the fuzz pedal out entirely and let you figure that out yourself xD

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30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

At the same time?

No I'd use them at separate times hence the two lines on the pedal board one for bass one for guitar. I am even willing to forgo the tuner for the guitar as I have a polytune on the bass anyways and that does pretty good. 

Quote

Wouldn't only one of the instruments be able to use the tuner at one time? Or have you thought of a way around that... because if that's where the guitar and bass signal both enter the chain - I don't know how you'd be able to have both instruments running through the same board and using the fuzz (wait... which pedal is your fuzz pedal? The DS-1?), spark, and delay.

None of those are the true Fuzz pedal. The one I am looking at is this one "Electro-Harmonix Sovtek Deluxe Big Muff Pi" - I like that Russian green sound and the other pedal which is in my cart right now is this one "EarthQuaker Devices Hoof Hybrid Fuzz v2". I am so tempted to get the Hoof because I have heard nothing but good things about it but ... EHX is just as good in the reviews as well. The other pedal I have which I am going to retire is my old Big Muff and I figure I have had it a long time its time to put it away. 

Quote

If you didn't mean running the guitar & bass at the same time... then that's a different question entirely. And then I guess my next question would be, do you plan on running any pedals through an amp's effects loop? Or is everything just going to be running in front of the amp.

Yep separate uses so I wouldn't run the two at the same time. I think if I wanted to go that route then I'd hit up trying to get a modeller like what you have so that I can then use the two in tandem and run patches but I am trying to stay old school here.

Quote

Does that version of the DS-1 work more like a fuzz pedal than the traditional DS-1 distortion sound? Because fuzz pedals are weird (I love the way they sound when someone who knows how to use one - unfortunately, unless my signal chain is just Guitar > Fuzz > Amp I've never really bonded with a fuzz pedal. The one's I've used seem to hate coming after pedals with buffers. And the Boss tuner pedal I've got has a buffer in it - so coming after that really changes how the signal comes out in a really unpleasant way). OH! You must mean the potential EHX Muff you'd be getting for the fuzz - because that's definitely a fuzz pedal.

That DS-1 is a regular DS-1 with a black cover to commemorate 40th Anniversary of Boss. Otherwise its just the same pedal.

Quote

Fuzz pedals are tricky as shit and you might have to try them at various points in the signal chain to see where it ends up producing the best sound. So whatever signal path recommendation I'd make to you, I'd probably leave the fuzz pedal out entirely and let you figure that out yourself xD

TBH with a bass the Fuzz sits almost near the end because you want all the richness of the tone to come from the Ultra block with the compressor after that so that you can then tune the Fuzz in or if you want put the compressor at the end to create sustains but if you're doing fuzz that is irrelevant as you can boost and cut whatever you need. I am thinking if I do what I want to do then I'll get an MS-8/6 from Boss (if you've never seen one go check it out) and then eliminate the TU-3 and run a 6 point pedal system within the pedal switcher and put the booster at the end for the guitar and the preamp before it for the bass.

And this is when my head starts to hurt.

Edit: That's the ES-8 and ES-6 but Mooer has one that is way more compact and more what I need.

Edited by Mel81x
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Oh those MS-8/6s look so useful. And also look so complicated for someone like me to understand xD

That's a tricky thing to set up - all of my pedal chains ever (even on modelers, with the simulated chains) are all fairly simple. Also the guy I play bass with pretty much just goes Bass > Tuner > Darkglass (btw, he just replaced his Sans Amp with the a Darkglass Vintage Ultra and holy shit... it's nice) > Power Amp - so his rig is very simple as well.

Are the 2 lines on the pedalboard you're talking about the 2 rows of pedals? Because otherwise... I don't know if I'm seeing the lines. I think I'm having a hard time conceptualising how this would work out as a result.

Are would this be something where for the most part the guitar & bass signal chain are set up and ready to go, but you'd need to connect the pedals you'd plan on using for both to the right chain for either guitar/bass? Or is this something you're envisioning where it's more like how I use a pedalboard - it's ready to go, just power up the iso brick(s) and plug the input and output to the board and turn your amp on.

Also do you use the FX loop, or no? Because I prefer the FX loop with time based stuff. But not everyone does, and I think delays in front of an amp sometimes sound much cooler than they would in an amp (when other people do it, not me lol). But the FX loop always makes a pedal board just a bit more irritating to get set up.

Side Discussion:

How're you liking the Spark Mini?

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Oh those MS-8/6s look so useful. And also look so complicated for someone like me to understand xD

I was scared at first but not anymore. I think of it as a modeler which I can then replace pedals with on the go. It's not like I'll have all the pedals on there although some will be standard.

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's a tricky thing to set up - all of my pedal chains ever (even on modelers, with the simulated chains) are all fairly simple. Also the guy I play bass with pretty much just goes Bass > Tuner > Darkglass (btw, he just replaced his Sans Amp with the a Darkglass Vintage Ultra and holy shit... it's nice) > Power Amp - so his rig is very simple as well.

Sans Amp is good but Darkglass is on a whole different level with circuitry. I run the DG in the following order Bass -> DG -> Sub N Up -> Compressor -> Delay -> Amp

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Are the 2 lines on the pedalboard you're talking about the 2 rows of pedals? Because otherwise... I don't know if I'm seeing the lines. I think I'm having a hard time conceptualising how this would work out as a result.

Think of it like this

Row 1 : Guitar/General Pedals

Row 2: Bass / Switcher

When either the guitar or the bass is plugged in the pedal switcher does the job of handling the Pedal combinations and the only other thing to worry about is what the leading pedal will be.

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Are would this be something where for the most part the guitar & bass signal chain are set up and ready to go, but you'd need to connect the pedals you'd plan on using for both to the right chain for either guitar/bass? Or is this something you're envisioning where it's more like how I use a pedalboard - it's ready to go, just power up the iso brick(s) and plug the input and output to the board and turn your amp on.

I am trying to get it to the most minimal point of changes. If I do a set and play bass on five songs and three on guitar then I'd play the five move to the guitar and then do the three without touching the pedals but connecting the other instrument in. I think with a pedal switcher from BOSS you get a tuner so I can ditch the TU3 then its all a matter of figuring out which pedal goes first in line and even that is up for debate too. 

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Also do you use the FX loop, or no? Because I prefer the FX loop with time based stuff. But not everyone does, and I think delays in front of an amp sometimes sound much cooler than they would in an amp (when other people do it, not me lol). But the FX loop always makes a pedal board just a bit more irritating to get set up.

I do like the FX loop but like you said I have such a hard time conceptualizing how this would work when I wanted to use it for Guitar but then not use it for bass if there are common pedals. Like the Fuzz one because now I have to also worry about an FX loop as well and that can be achieved with a pedal switcher and I can route the FX loop back into the pedal-s and then put my other pedals like delay outside the amp (I like that too, not a big fan of it inside the loop) as I feel the sound has to be created in the amp and then modified by the delay pedal

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Side Discussion:

How're you liking the Spark Mini?

Its a great little pedal to me. 20dB boost is more than sufficient for how I play and I've used it for acoustic sets too and it does a superb job there too. The one thing I wish they'd actually have done a bit better is what Boss has done on some of their pedals where you can daisy chain the 9V out of the pedal into the next pedal over. I figure that would be something TC-Elec could and should do in the future.

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Looking a bit more into the ES-8 (I just googled that one because... higher number = better lol). I do think that would be the easiest solution - and that you can take your actual stompboxes and make pre-sets out of it like a modeler is pretty great (and I guess... also the entire purpose of these switching systems). It does look like you can set it up with the 4 cable method and then have certain pedals running into the FX loop on some presets, but before the amp on other presets... which is pretty remarkable tbh.

That does seem to be the ultimately easiest solution - have everything all set up and ready to go, load up the presets for your different songs on bass & guitar so you've got the right pedals in the right pedal order for the presets.

The fact you can basically rearrange the order of your pedals without having to actually go and physically rearrange the pedals is stunningly great. When I do use a my pedalboard (I should post a pic of that on here tonight, it's simple as fuck... but I think it's pretty good - and I'll post another picture once I get my EQ pedal back from Jim Dunlop's repair shop), I've basically got an incredibly simple setup I'd never really rearrange because I think everything's in the right order for the shit I play. But one of the reasons I love fucking around with modelers (btw have you seen the Line 6 Pod Go... I think that's what I'll ultimately be replacing my stolen Helix LT with - it's basically just a Helix LT in cheaper housing) is that it is so incredibly easy to change the order of the pedals.

But I think most people would agree that real pedals sound better than the simulations in most modelers. And real valve amps definitely feel better to play through, even though I think just by listening it's harder to tell what's real and what's a model. So being able to use your pedals like you're using a modeler... but with real effects and a real amp... that sounds ideal.

If you've got the money for it, I think that's the easiest and probably best way to go. That manual on the BOSS website though... looks pretty fuckin' complicated xD & you couple that with how the back of the switcher unit looks (it looks like the back of a fucking mixer lol) and you can see why I had the view of "that shit looks too complicated for me."

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7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Looking a bit more into the ES-8 (I just googled that one because... higher number = better lol). I do think that would be the easiest solution - and that you can take your actual stompboxes and make pre-sets out of it like a modeler is pretty great (and I guess... also the entire purpose of these switching systems). It does look like you can set it up with the 4 cable method and then have certain pedals running into the FX loop on some presets, but before the amp on other presets... which is pretty remarkable tbh.

The replies just kept getting longer and longer haha.

I think the Boss is one of the routes I will go. Saw that Mooer has one too but their end buffer can sometimes dilute the output and that in itself is enough for me to say nope and what I am going to do is wait and get the Boss ES-6 solution as I can't see how I'd fit something that big and get the most out of it. Plus it would get rather heavy and I am trying to be conscious of that. 

As for that manual, it looks daunting at first. I remember getting a G-Pedal from Zoom and seeing such few knobs and thinking meh this is a simple enough pedal and then I started using it and my head started hurting. It had so many button combinations it was like playing a MMO RPG and all it was missing was a mouse and keyboard. Having said that this looks far more straight forward and it has a complex side to it too but I think I'll set it up once and use the pedal switcher and the pedal placement features more than anything else. Plus, since its a boss I can finally use my FS-7 with it which I haven't used in forever to get more out of it.

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7 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

The replies just kept getting longer and longer haha.

I think the Boss is one of the routes I will go. Saw that Mooer has one too but their end buffer can sometimes dilute the output and that in itself is enough for me to say nope and what I am going to do is wait and get the Boss ES-6 solution as I can't see how I'd fit something that big and get the most out of it. Plus it would get rather heavy and I am trying to be conscious of that. 

As for that manual, it looks daunting at first. I remember getting a G-Pedal from Zoom and seeing such few knobs and thinking meh this is a simple enough pedal and then I started using it and my head started hurting. It had so many button combinations it was like playing a MMO RPG and all it was missing was a mouse and keyboard. Having said that this looks far more straight forward and it has a complex side to it too but I think I'll set it up once and use the pedal switcher and the pedal placement features more than anything else. Plus, since its a boss I can finally use my FS-7 with it which I haven't used in forever to get more out of it.

I just can’t believe you can rearrange the pedals with it. I had no idea switchers could do that

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4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just can’t believe you can rearrange the pedals with it. I had no idea switchers could do that

The cheaper and older ones didn't. For example the JOYO switch which looks like it was born in an aluminium housing. That thing just switched them and then you'd have a router above it but these new ones are fantastic. I think in your search for the ES-8 you'd have seen the MS-3 and that one is a bit more wilder with options on the switch for effects too.

I'd be more tempted to get this if it was four slots instead of three and if it had the ability to move the pedals in the chain too. So many simple things like overdrive, delay, reverb, etc are all on there and it would reduce the fact of me having to put the Strymon Delay on the pedal-board (its kind of a heavy pedal)

Edited by Mel81x
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@Mel81x here’s my WIP board after a bit of light rearranging placement of things. The iso-brick’s a bit annoying as it won’t states velcroed onto the bottom - so it goes on top taking up space. Not pictured is my 10 band EQ which would go before to the Small Stone (which I’ll probably take off once I get a reverb pedal). Top row goes in ahead of the amp, bottom row is my FX loop shite - so mostly for leads.

I’ve got to mess around with the wiring of all the cables and shite underneath but I’ll do that when my pedal’s back from Jim Dunlop’s repairs.

Simple rig for a simple man.

F737135B-0C15-4DCB-AF6B-95CCB706AFF8.jpeg

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Also that OD pedal, the Bad Monkey is such an underrated gem of a pedal. I bought it way back in the early 2000s for something like £20 & I like it better than any tubescreamer I’ve ever used (except maybe the Boss SD-1, which isn’t a tubescreamer... but it’s close).

It’s a bit shit digitech discontinued it because once that breaks down on me I will be very sad

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35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Mel81x here’s my WIP board after a bit of light rearranging placement of things. The iso-brick’s a bit annoying as it won’t states velcroed onto the bottom - so it goes on top taking up space. Not pictured is my 10 band EQ which would go before to the Small Stone (which I’ll probably take off once I get a reverb pedal). Top row goes in ahead of the amp, bottom row is my FX loop shite - so mostly for leads.

I’ve got to mess around with the wiring of all the cables and shite underneath but I’ll do that when my pedal’s back from Jim Dunlop’s repairs.

Simple rig for a simple man.

F737135B-0C15-4DCB-AF6B-95CCB706AFF8.jpeg

I like that pedal board. Its simple and its kind of how my bass only pedal board used to be. The one thing about MXR Power supplies is how bright that LED is. Sometimes you look down when the lights are dim at a show and it creates a nice blue sheen over everything hehe. But the amount of cables and the compactness of it is what I like. You can take it off a board and put it on your table and just use it. I like that Bad Monkey too but I already had an SD-1 and I am thinking of getting my Tube Screamer from home (Ibanez). I only bought it because when I was younger I had just watched the first TMNT movie and I told my dad for my birthday I wanted something green and fun, who knew he would take it so seriously.

Also, why is the Sentry before everything else in the chain? Doesn't that cause problems when you want to run the more harsher pedals as it kills the full throttle of the signal? 

P.S. I placed an order ... for an MS-3 from Boss.

Edited by Mel81x
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55 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I like that pedal board. Its simple and its kind of how my bass only pedal board used to be. The one thing about MXR Power supplies is how bright that LED is. Sometimes you look down when the lights are dim at a show and it creates a nice blue sheen over everything hehe. But the amount of cables and the compactness of it is what I like. You can take it off a board and put it on your table and just use it. I like that Bad Monkey too but I already had an SD-1 and I am thinking of getting my Tube Screamer from home (Ibanez). I only bought it because when I was younger I had just watched the first TMNT movie and I told my dad for my birthday I wanted something green and fun, who knew he would take it so seriously.

Also, why is the Sentry before everything else in the chain? Doesn't that cause problems when you want to run the more harsher pedals as it kills the full throttle of the signal? 

P.S. I placed an order ... for an MS-3 from Boss.

Oh with the blue lights it gets crazy when I have my EQ pedal on the board as well & have that engaged. So much bright blue blinding me when I look down xD

No need to get a Bad Monkey when you’ve already got an SD-1 tbh, those are both my 2 favourite overdrive pedals. The Bad Monkey I just like a lot because it’s got soft clipping like an Ibanez tubescreamer but it’s got 2 tone knobs. But the SD-1’s a tube screamer with hard clipping and tbh I think that sounds better, at least in metal and rock applications.

The Sentry’s first in the chain for me for a few reasons. But long story short, with my 6505 & my Joyo (which replicates a 6505/5150 sound) - putting it after my OD pedal & the pickups I’m using on my E-II & my SG (both have really REALLY high output pickups, especially the E-II) meant a lot more unwanted noise was coming through. And using that 4 cable method I’ve always put the noise gate first in the loop as well because that pre-amp hiss is something I want to do before the time based effects kick in.

That wasn’t that short of an explanation lol. The real short answer is my need for the noise gate is primarily due to too much feedback from the guitar rather than noisy pedals. I think that’s due to the nature of the music I mostly play 98% of the time - because it’s pretty common for metal players to put the noise gate first.

Also re: that MS-3 order... VERY NICE. I hadn’t looked into them that much until you mentioned them as an alternative to the other 2 switchers you mentioned. I thought you said you wanted the ES-6 though what changed your mind? Is it because the MS-3’s got onboard effects as well.

Thats an impressive piece of kit you have on your way.

So after fucking around with my rig for a big just noodling in between my posts and having a fun time with just trying to make some heavy sounding riffs and some soloing that I’m sure was very shite... I think I’m gonna go get a reverb pedal tomorrow. I’m thinking a Hall of Fame mini or the Boss digital reverb - I’ll fuck around with both before I buy one. I might grab a Spark mini too, because I’m liking the sounds on the YouTube demos I’m seeing and... well it’s fucking cheap

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