Making Music

[Happy Blue]

@Dr. Gonzo @Mel81xCouldn't resist any longer  watching them go out of stock everywhere and Amazon's stock dwindle down to 3 i had to grab one . it arrives tomorrow, paid £265  ..the PodGo has more options and is probably better but think the Valeton wins the value for money and makes more sense for what i do  ...will give you my thoughts on it tomorrow night, going to run it through the effects loop on my 6505mh  ...just found out it has a built in drum machine too 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Happy Blue

[Dr. Gonzo]

 

2 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

@Dr. Gonzo @Mel81xCouldn't resist any longer  watching them go out of stock everywhere and Amazon's stock dwindle down to 3 i had to grab one . it arrives tomorrow, paid £265  ..the PodGo has more options and is probably better but think the Valeton wins the value for money and makes more sense for what i do  ...will give you my thoughts on it tomorrow night, going to run it through the effects loop on my 6505mh  ...just found out it has a built in drum machine too 

Nice, let us know how it is!

[Happy Blue]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Nice, let us know how it is!

Will do mate   hopefully i will be able to work it out  normally just plug into a few pedals and an amp lol ..would you run it trough the 6505 effect loop or straight through the amps input?  ..all this new tech is a bit beyond me haha. am i right in thinking i could just plug my head phones in this and jam without an amp?  ..did you order the PodGo?

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

Will do mate   hopefully i will be able to work it out  normally just plug into a few pedals and an amp lol ..would you run it trough the 6505 effect loop or straight through the amps input?  ..all this new tech is a bit beyond me haha. am i right in thinking i could just plug my head phones in this and jam without an amp?  ..did you order the PodGo?

Yeah I ordered the PodGo - it'll get to me over the weekend it looks like. Looking forward to it - I'll make a shit little demo clip once I figure my way around the unit.

If you're running the Valeton into your 6505, I think you'll get the best results having it run into guitar into the modeler's input, then on one of the mono output (usually the left output) you want to run that into the return end of your 6505's effects loop. So you don't actually run a guitar cable into the input of the amp, just into your modeler.

Maybe @Mel81x knows better than me - but looking at the Valeton, it's got unbalanced and balanced TRS outputs (as well as XLR, that's pretty nice for the price!)... I'm not sure whether balanced or unbalanced outputs are better to run into an amp or not (or if it even makes a difference). What I do know is that for just one amp, you'll want to use the mono output.

[Happy Blue]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah I ordered the PodGo - it'll get to me over the weekend it looks like. Looking forward to it - I'll make a shit little demo clip once I figure my way around the unit.

If you're running the Valeton into your 6505, I think you'll get the best results having it run into guitar into the modeler's input, then on one of the mono output (usually the left output) you want to run that into the return end of your 6505's effects loop. So you don't actually run a guitar cable into the input of the amp, just into your modeler.

Maybe @Mel81x knows better than me - but looking at the Valeton, it's got unbalanced and balanced TRS outputs (as well as XLR, that's pretty nice for the price!)... I'm not sure whether balanced or unbalanced outputs are better to run into an amp or not (or if it even makes a difference). What I do know is that for just one amp, you'll want to use the mono output.

Look forward to seeing your GO in action then  lets hope we get good delivery drivers   ..you have probably just saved me a ton of time, cheers. id of probably plugged my guitar into the front of the head  maybe i should read the manual for once   ..i have some  FRFR speaker's for my computer i can use too if it sounds crap through the amp. just reading up on it and it says i can just use with headphone's too so that's good 

[Dr. Gonzo]

26 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Look forward to seeing your GO in action then  lets hope we get good delivery drivers   ..you have probably just saved me a ton of time, cheers. id of probably plugged my guitar into the front of the head  maybe i should read the manual for once   ..i have some  FRFR speaker's for my computer i can use too if it sounds crap through the amp. just reading up on it and it says i can just use with headphone's too so that's good 

With the ins and outs on your unit... you've really got all of the options available for outputs on that thing. Headphones, balanced out (L & R), unbalanced out (L & R), XLR (L & R)... and USB (although you've got an interface already - so you might have better results using the XLR or TRS into that than going direct into the computer). That's actually really remarkable for the price, tbh.

If you're using FRFR speakers or monitors, you'd just use the L&R outs (I dunno whether you'd do balanced or unbalanced still...) - headphones is just headphones.

I definitely recommend taking a look at the manual for things like this - or at least download a copy to your computer in case you need to figure out how to do something (and if you're like me and you're going in depth fucking around on the thing, you'll probably have it around your computer because you'll be plugged in so you can use their editting software) - to save you time, I found you the link: https://cdns.hotoneaudio.com//enclosure/sources/PisfybeAsetgKVfH/GP-200_Online Manual_EN_Firmware V1.1.1_220218.pdf - these things can do a lot & can be pretty confusing when you first get started.

Tbh you'll probably also be able to find youtube tutorials... BUT sometimes it's faster just to bust out the PDF and search for whatever you want to find out how to do.

Also - looks like Valeton is owned by Hotone from the looks of that link & that's a good sign, Hotone and Mooer are probably 2 of the bigger Chinese branded guitar fx and amp companies & most of the products of theirs I've heard/seen/used have been really great for the price. Just don't let any dipshits spill any beer on it 

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 hours ago, Mel81x said:

The ML Sound Lab One please.

Oh... turns out I actually use 3 of these looking at the presets I use the mostin Neural DSP.

There's a Mesa Boogie Electro-Voice cab that I probably use the most - I think it's a mix of different mics used to create the impulse response... I'm not sure what mics are used but the one I use the most is labeled "Dynamic" (so probably 2 or more dynamic mics).

Then there's a Marshall M75 pack I've got (some kind of Marshall 4x12) - I like the way the Ribbon Mic (R121 I think?) sounds on this, I think I use the 121-3 version... that probably doesn't mean anything to you other than it's a ribbon mic simulation 

And then I've got a standard Mesa Boogie 4x12 (not the oversized) with Vintage 30 speakers, it looks like on this one I liked the way it sounded with the Shure 7B.

Got any preference out of those 3 ML Sound Lab cabs? Otherwise, I'll probably just be giving an audio clip with some clean, crunch, and high gain with the Electro-Voice one (imo that's the best of the 3 and is definitely the one I use the most).

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Happy Blueit looks like your TRS outputs are both unbalanced and the XLR ones are balanced - so that should make it easy to figure out despite what I said earlier. The ones that can take guitar leads are the unbalanced ones - so you'd just go from the left output of that into the FX return on your amp and you'll be good to go. They're also the same 2 outputs you'd use for going into a FRFR speaker - although I know some have XLR inputs.

[Happy Blue]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

With the ins and outs on your unit... you've really got all of the options available for outputs on that thing. Headphones, balanced out (L & R), unbalanced out (L & R), XLR (L & R)... and USB (although you've got an interface already - so you might have better results using the XLR or TRS into that than going direct into the computer). That's actually really remarkable for the price, tbh.

If you're using FRFR speakers or monitors, you'd just use the L&R outs (I dunno whether you'd do balanced or unbalanced still...) - headphones is just headphones.

I definitely recommend taking a look at the manual for things like this - or at least download a copy to your computer in case you need to figure out how to do something (and if you're like me and you're going in depth fucking around on the thing, you'll probably have it around your computer because you'll be plugged in so you can use their editting software) - to save you time, I found you the link: https://cdns.hotoneaudio.com//enclosure/sources/PisfybeAsetgKVfH/GP-200_Online Manual_EN_Firmware V1.1.1_220218.pdf - these things can do a lot & can be pretty confusing when you first get started.

Tbh you'll probably also be able to find youtube tutorials... BUT sometimes it's faster just to bust out the PDF and search for whatever you want to find out how to do.

Also - looks like Valeton is owned by Hotone from the looks of that link & that's a good sign, Hotone and Mooer are probably 2 of the bigger Chinese branded guitar fx and amp companies & most of the products of theirs I've heard/seen/used have been really great for the price. Just don't let any dipshits spill any beer on it 

Just reading through that manual now, cheers  ..this is going to take some time to get to grips with  ...do you think i need to turn my amp &cab emulation off when playing from a real amp?  

[Happy Blue]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Happy Blueit looks like your TRS outputs are both unbalanced and the XLR ones are balanced - so that should make it easy to figure out despite what I said earlier. The ones that can take guitar leads are the unbalanced ones - so you'd just go from the left output of that into the FX return on your amp and you'll be good to go. They're also the same 2 outputs you'd use for going into a FRFR speaker - although I know some have XLR inputs.

Awesome, cheers bud 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Just reading through that manual now, cheers  ..this is going to take some time to get to grips with  ...do you think i need to turn my amp &cab emulation off when playing from a real amp?  

If you're going into the FX loop, you won't need to turn the amp sims off - they'll basically replace the pre-amp section of the 6505. You'll want the cab emulation turned off though because the signal will go through your amp's power section and then to actual cabinet... typically cab sims sound awful when they're run through an actual cabinet (it sounds like a cabinet is inside a box, it's very weird).

If you're using headphones or FRFR speakers or a monitor, you'll want the cab sims turned on though because otherwise you just get that really harsh and difficult to listen to pre-amp signal.

And if you plug it into the 6505's input, you'd probably want to keep the amp and cab sim both off. But I think this method won't get you the best results with your time based effects that you'd typically want in the FX loop.

It sounds like most of the time you'd want to be going into the FX loop of the 6505... so for that keep the amp sims on but the cab sims off.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Also looking at pages 17-19 of that manual, looks like you can set it up with the 4 cable method (it suggests turning the amp and cab off using this) and changing the FX loop to the "series" setting - but that would let you just use the thing for it's effects and keep the amp's pre-amp tone & let you use the time-based effects the way you'd want.

But I think for you since you're not getting the tone you want from your amp currently, you'd probably find better results just using the 6505 for it's power section and using your cab & using the Valeton's amp sims as the pre-amp section of your signal.

[Happy Blue]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If you're going into the FX loop, you won't need to turn the amp sims off - they'll basically replace the pre-amp section of the 6505. You'll want the cab emulation turned off though because the signal will go through your amp's power section and then to actual cabinet... typically cab sims sound awful when they're run through an actual cabinet (it sounds like a cabinet is inside a box, it's very weird).

If you're using headphones or FRFR speakers or a monitor, you'll want the cab sims turned on though because otherwise you just get that really harsh and difficult to listen to pre-amp signal.

And if you plug it into the 6505's input, you'd probably want to keep the amp and cab sim both off. But I think this method won't get you the best results with your time based effects that you'd typically want in the FX loop.

It sounds like most of the time you'd want to be going into the FX loop of the 6505... so for that keep the amp sims on but the cab sims off.

Thanks mate, this has really helped a lot, i understand how it works now  see what kind of tones i can get out of it tomorrow  

Edited June 24, 2022 by Happy Blue

[Happy Blue]

@Dr. Gonzo i guess now i can find out if im happy with my current real cabinet or not by running different head emulations through it 

[Happy Blue]

Will see if the EVH 5150 emulation sounds better than my real 6505hm too  ..still cant believe it was only £265 for all them features 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

@Dr. Gonzo i guess now i can find out if im happy with my current real cabinet or not by running different head emulations through it 

Yeah and if you decide you don't like the speakers or anything, you can use cab sims and IRs to sort of get an idea of what kind of speakers you do actually like. The nice thing about having a shitload of amps/cabinets/effects all in one unit is you can sort of get an idea of what you like without spending a shitload of cash to go through and try each of these things. They're very cool - it's like having a high quality studio in a little box you can take around with you.

Just one thing to keep in mind with the amp/effect simulations - they're not always a 1 to 1 copy (some brands come closer than others), I've not used the Valeton you just bought... but I've used the Hotone Ampero before and I think it can get some really great sounds out of it.. but the 5150 model it has if you set all the knobs to 5 or 6 doesn't really sound like a 5150 until you tweak the hell out of it. So you'll probably be able to get really authentic real sounding amp tones from it... it just might take a while for you to tweak the things.

Imo with products like this, you start to appreciate them the more you've owned it and used it - and you'll probably find yourself editting presets you make pretty regularly as you learn and adjust with the unit.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

Will see if the EVH 5150 emulation sounds better than my real 6505hm too  ..still cant believe it was only £265 for all them features 

Yeah the price of that thing is absolutely insane for all it can offer and (especially) with all of those ins and outs that you'd usually find on the more premium units out there (seriously, the ins and outs of that Valeton seriously put the PodGo I just bought to shame).

I'd be curious to know what the processing power is on it - I assume it's less than the PodGo because it's got more fixed blocks than the PodGo - but I'd also assume it's more than the GE200 I had before.

Like I said just a few minutes ago, I'm sure you'll be able to get a very authentic 5150 sound out of it... just don't necessarily expect the amp sim to sound the same way the amp would if you have all the knobs in the same positions. It'll be close - probably - but not 100% exact.

It's funny with the Soldano SLO-100 every different sort of emulation I've used can get the same sounds... but with completely different settings  - also if you ever mess around with the stock cabs in your unit (also I should probably send you and @Mel81x some of my IR files so you can fuck around with those as well), I think you'll find that the Soldano cab simulation is really good. I dunno why, but on every modeler I've tried that has a Soldano cab... that cab has pretty much stood out to me as one of the better stock cabinets, if not the overall best one (for Mooer I can say with 100% certainty if you're using a stock cab for high gain, you'd want to use the soldano).

[Happy Blue]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah and if you decide you don't like the speakers or anything, you can use cab sims and IRs to sort of get an idea of what kind of speakers you do actually like. The nice thing about having a shitload of amps/cabinets/effects all in one unit is you can sort of get an idea of what you like without spending a shitload of cash to go through and try each of these things. They're very cool - it's like having a high quality studio in a little box you can take around with you.

Just one thing to keep in mind with the amp/effect simulations - they're not always a 1 to 1 copy (some brands come closer than others), I've not used the Valeton you just bought... but I've used the Hotone Ampero before and I think it can get some really great sounds out of it.. but the 5150 model it has if you set all the knobs to 5 or 6 doesn't really sound like a 5150 until you tweak the hell out of it. So you'll probably be able to get really authentic real sounding amp tones from it... it just might take a while for you to tweak the things.

Imo with products like this, you start to appreciate them the more you've owned it and used it - and you'll probably find yourself editting presets you make pretty regularly as you learn and adjust with the unit.

It's genius isn't it, you get all them expensive amps, cabs, effects for little money all in a box you can sling in a back pack and take anywhere, for bands they can just play out of the houses PA instead of lugging amps and cabs everywhere, units like these have really changed the game and like you mentioned we can find out which amp and cab combo we like with spending thousands of pounds to find out it's not quite right ..i agree, the more we get used to them we will be tweeking the pre sets and making some killer tones of our own ..having sold my 7 string i'm looking forward to using the pitch shifter to get that low A rumble again

Edited June 24, 2022 by Happy Blue

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

It's genius isn't it, you get all them expensive amps, cabs, effects for little money all in a box you can sling in a back pack and take anywhere, for bands they can just play out of the houses PA instead of lugging amps and cabs everywhere, units like these have really changed the game and like you mentioned we can find out with amp and cab combo we like with sending thousands of pounds to find out it's not quite right ..i agree, the more we get used to them we will be tweeking the pre sets and making some killer tones of our own ..having sold my 7 string i'm looking forward to using the pitch shifter to get that low A rumble again

Yeah, I know a few people who tour and they all have gone digital (at least outside the studios where they actually record for their albums) - it's just so convenient nowadays with these modelers. Especially the higher end ones that are sort of geared towards the pros - even when they use cabinets live... they still have their modelers going to front of house - the cabinets are more just so they can "feel the amps on the stage" like it's a real amp.

I think real amps will always have a place in guitar related music, but for pros and hobbyists alike... there's a lot of reason to appreciate what the advancement of this modeling tech has done for all of us. And it really is remarkable for hobbyists because you can get the sound of an expensive amp, run through an expensive cab, mic'd up professionally like it's in a recording room... and just be sitting in your bedroom playing with headphones on - miles away from what we'd have been used to with our tone playing in our bedrooms 10-20 years ago.

I think you'll have a lot of fun with your Valeton when it gets here tomorrow! Looking at some videos by that Taylor Danley guy you posted a few days ago... it looks like maybe the biggest bargain in the guitar world right now.

[Happy Blue]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah the price of that thing is absolutely insane for all it can offer and (especially) with all of those ins and outs that you'd usually find on the more premium units out there (seriously, the ins and outs of that Valeton seriously put the PodGo I just bought to shame).

I'd be curious to know what the processing power is on it - I assume it's less than the PodGo because it's got more fixed blocks than the PodGo - but I'd also assume it's more than the GE200 I had before.

Like I said just a few minutes ago, I'm sure you'll be able to get a very authentic 5150 sound out of it... just don't necessarily expect the amp sim to sound the same way the amp would if you have all the knobs in the same positions. It'll be close - probably - but not 100% exact.

It's funny with the Soldano SLO-100 every different sort of emulation I've used can get the same sounds... but with completely different settings  - also if you ever mess around with the stock cabs in your unit (also I should probably send you and @Mel81x some of my IR files so you can fuck around with those as well), I think you'll find that the Soldano cab simulation is really good. I dunno why, but on every modeler I've tried that has a Soldano cab... that cab has pretty much stood out to me as one of the better stock cabinets, if not the overall best one (for Mooer I can say with 100% certainty if you're using a stock cab for high gain, you'd want to use the soldano).

Would of thought the processing power of yours will be more than the valeton mate, guess they got to cut corners somewhere to keep it at that price point, the PodGo looks phenomenal, i just went for the cheaper alternative  probably not as good as the Pod but will do me, you have more fine tuning options on the GO too but i could easily get lost in all that and fuck it up   ..i love the Soldano heads too and your right, they always sound amazing on the emulations i've heard, the soldano is a standout on the valeton too along with the mesa duel rectifier (my favouite tone) and the EVH 5150 from what i've heard on demo's so far  

[Happy Blue]

Kirk Hammett using the Valton GP-200 on stage live

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Would of thought the processing power of yours will be more than the valeton mate, guess they got to cut corners somewhere to keep it at that price point, the PodGo looks phenomenal, i just went for the cheaper alternative  probably not as good as the Pod but will do me, you have more fine tuning options on the GO too but i could easily get lost in all that and fuck it up   ..i love the Soldano heads too and your right, they always sound amazing on the emulations i've heard, the soldano is a standout on the valeton too along with the mesa duel rectifier (my favouite tone) and the EVH 5150 from what i've heard on demo's so far  

I think the PodGo probably has more processing power than most of the modelers in the price range we're talking about because they've got the amp/cab/effects from the big boy Helixes - but it's substantially less power than the Helix which is why it's got the DSP limitations it does. Plus those 4 blocks that can be assigned to any effects - you don't really see stuff like that on the lower priced modelers because that's something that usually needs a bit more processing power.

I think with the Valeton all 11 blocks are fixed to whatever they are (modulation, reverb, the amp itself, etc...) - which is limiting in a sense, but also probably means that you'll never find yourself running out of the DSP to make any preset you might want to make. I think with me, if I'm using enough effects it'll stop me from adding some other effects - I never had that issue on the Mooer, so it can be a sense of less power actually being beneficial in a sense.

But I was more curious how that Valeton would compare with something like the Mooer GE200 (because I know the 300 has an insane amount of processing power) or their parent company's Hotone Ampero stuff - because it doesn't look like it's really lacking in processing power compared to either of those. And it certainly sounds really good based off those demo videos.

The Marshall JCM sim on that Valeton is genuinely impressive as fuck - it's a closer representation of the amp than I've seen on some other much more expensive modelers & plugins judging by these videos. And that's with the stock cabs! And yeah those even higher gain amps on the Valeton sound very good

[Happy Blue]

@Dr. Gonzo Did your PodGo arrive buddy? ..well I'm as happy as a pig rolling round in shit  my cab speakers are spot on and the EVH 5150 gave me that tone my 6506mh couldn't. had a good mess around for about 6hrs and barely scratched the surface ..there is about 5 high gain amps I like so far, some great effects for that industrial sound and some sweet chorus pedals, one has a synthesiser along with the guitar ..the drums are basic but good to jam along too, made a few nice riffs today, might even start making songs, so many great sounds to get inspired by  a few pics 

[Dr. Gonzo]

58 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

@Dr. Gonzo Did your PodGo arrive buddy? ..well I'm as happy as a pig rolling round in shit  my cab speakers are spot on and the EVH 5150 gave me that tone my 6506mh couldn't. had a good mess around for about 6hrs and barely scratched the surface ..there is about 5 high gain amps I like so far, some great effects for that industrial sound and some sweet chorus pedals, one has a synthesiser along with the guitar ..the drums are basic but good to jam along too, made a few nice riffs today, might even start making songs, so many great sounds to get inspired by  a few pics 

Nice mate! Sounds like it was exactly what you wanted. I figured your cabinet was fine, it’s got nice speakers I know you’ve told me exactly what they are before… but I was pretty confident the cab was the least of your tone worries.

And if you’re getting the tones you wanted now… well then that’s perfect. 

Mine’s supposed to get here tomorrow, so I’m still waiting.

[Happy Blue]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nice mate! Sounds like it was exactly what you wanted. I figured your cabinet was fine, it’s got nice speakers I know you’ve told me exactly what they are before… but I was pretty confident the cab was the least of your tone worries.

And if you’re getting the tones you wanted now… well then that’s perfect. 

Mine’s supposed to get here tomorrow, so I’m still waiting.

So far so good mate  i've noticed the heavy distortion amps have a lot more clarity then the real amps while keeping all the heaviness too, great for the fast death metal songs that sometimes get a little muddy on a real high gain amp ..yeah, the 2x12 Eminence Governor speakers i have in my Laney cab sound great, think they would sound great with a vintage 30 like you have said before and at least my 6505mh will be useful now powering them for the Valeton  ..good thing now too is i can play my valve amp at a low sound volume and it sounds good ..from the reviews i've seen people favour the PodGo so your going to be over the moon mate when it arrives if i'm happy with the lesser board and i'm a hard man to please with guitar tone lol, hopefully yours comes tomorrow