Making Music

[Happy Blue]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do you have a mic you can plug into your Focusrite? I never actually record from an amp and a cabinet, I just go directly into the interface and into a DAW - but I've always wanted to get a mic and mic up a cabinet... like a proper old school recording. I do recommend fucking around with your Focusrite and a DAW. There's a lot of good free VST amp sims and cabinets... it's a fun way to get good tone at low volume (well for me, through my monitor headphones).

I also find recording myself is helpful at trying to get better at the guitar. And helpful in me trying to write my own songs (which to me has been both fun as fuck... and frustrating). I also like using the DAW (or AmpliTube on my iPhone - that little iRig I got on Monday is pretty cool for making my phone into a studio-lite) when I'd want to practice with a metronome/drum track. I hate playing without an amp... but with an amp I can NEVER hear my metronome, it's much easier just having it in my ears with the guitar noises.

If you've got a Mac, probably GarageBand is the easiest way to get started - and I like how Garageband is stripped down and really simple to figure out if you don't know what you're doing. But I think if you want to do anything more advanced with your DAW... you'd want something like Logic, which is basically just GarageBand all grown up. Which I think is what @Mel81x uses... and what I have installed on the Macbook my wife has basically taken as her own  (wasted money buying that tbh)

If you've got a PC... even though I absolutely hated it at first... I do recommend that Cakewalk program I was talking about earlier. It's 100% free... but it's a full on DAW that's supposed to stand up there with the big names like Logic, Pro-Tools, Ableton, etc... It used to be called SONAR and would cost a shitload - but when Gibson decided to end support for that DAW, a Singapore based company called BandLab (which appears to just be a pet project for a billionaire that loves music, imo) bought them and re-released it... as a completely free program called Cakewalk.

It's a bit tricky, and if you're like me you'll find it's really easy to get lost, because it's not obviously apparent on how to use anything in it. But a few YouTube videos helped me figure out what the hell I'm doing and... gotta say, I'm pretty pleased. I like it more than Reaper - which is what I was using before.

Btw, it is cool as fuck you have an actual physical stereo setup! 

Thanks for the recommendations, i will look into them  ..i don't have a mic, need to get one to capture the sound i'm getting with the 6505mh & Line 6 spider 2  ..finally got the sound i was after which turned out to be stereo with the sound of 3 guitars playing at the same time, who knew  ..you need that doubler pedal, through one amp its a bit blah but through 2 amps in stereo it sounds amazing and thick! 

[Mel81x+]

14 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

@Dr. Gonzo    @Mel81x

Lend me your ears!  ..how close have i got to Cannibal Corpses live sound?  ..short clip recorded with my phone again, so my live sound  ..will tell you how i've got this sound in a bit  password HB

 

 

 

I think the room acoustics are interfering with your recording, it sounds right but all that free space is making it sound a bit washed out. 

As for the FocusRite and a mic, take your time as it will take some getting used to and whole new learning curves in settings levels for mic recordings, etc. But, its a fun journey and a few years ago I'd say it was hard but now YouTube has literally got everything you need to get started.

[Mel81x+]

My only suggestion on DAWs is this. Once you've spent more than a week with one do not try and jump ship haha. Stick with it and make it part of your workflow.

[Happy Blue]

23 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I think the room acoustics are interfering with your recording, it sounds right but all that free space is making it sound a bit washed out. 

As for the FocusRite and a mic, take your time as it will take some getting used to and whole new learning curves in settings levels for mic recordings, etc. But, its a fun journey and a few years ago I'd say it was hard but now YouTube has literally got everything you need to get started.

Yeah, a phones not the best way to capture that kind of sound   ..which mics would you recommend? can i mic 2 cabs up at the same time? ..it's a combination of the 2 different sounding amps that give me that sound

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Happy Blue said:

Yeah, a phones not the best way to capture that kind of sound   ..which mics would you recommend? can i mic 2 cabs up at the same time? ..it's a combination of the 2 different sounding amps that give me that sound

In my limited experience with using mics on cabs I'd say there is really one mic that stands out and that is the Shure SM57(or the SM57C), they are the same mic just with some add-ons. I have three of these and I use them for recording acoustic guitar. They have zero interference based on how much you raise the gain on the FocusRite and you can use three of them to record quite effectively.

As for how many mics you want to use? The sky is literally the limit here haha. Just remember that you will need to be able to power all of them (phantom power option for condenser mics) so keep that in mind. I'd start with one mic (SM57) and see how it sounds. Don't use these mics for spatial recording (i.e. put it in the middle of the room and expect it to record well) they don't do this very well but if you mic the cabinet then you'll get some very clear sound with it. I'll try and do a demo with a bass guitar today and post it here.

[Happy Blue]

42 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

In my limited experience with using mics on cabs I'd say there is really one mic that stands out and that is the Shure SM57(or the SM57C), they are the same mic just with some add-ons. I have three of these and I use them for recording acoustic guitar. They have zero interference based on how much you raise the gain on the FocusRite and you can use three of them to record quite effectively.

As for how many mics you want to use? The sky is literally the limit here haha. Just remember that you will need to be able to power all of them (phantom power option for condenser mics) so keep that in mind. I'd start with one mic (SM57) and see how it sounds. Don't use these mics for spatial recording (i.e. put it in the middle of the room and expect it to record well) they don't do this very well but if you mic the cabinet then you'll get some very clear sound with it. I'll try and do a demo with a bass guitar today and post it here.

Awesome, i will have a look for them  ..just noticed i've got reaper on my desktop, looks confusing   ..look forward to the sound clip 

[Mel81x+]

Up first is my iPhone placed on top of amp top left corner with Bass up and mids down with treble down too. 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/zvt5ssqy0xulutt/U2_-_I_Still_Haven%27t_Found_What_I%27m_Looking_For_-_iPhone.m4a/file

I'll post the mic sample once I get it all setup and I'll use the same song so you can see the isolation effect of the mic from the room.

Oh and I wouldn't hear this all the way up the bass literally starts to get very heavy.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Mel81x

[Dr. Gonzo]

10 hours ago, Mel81x said:

My only suggestion on DAWs is this. Once you've spent more than a week with one do not try and jump ship haha. Stick with it and make it part of your workflow.

I would agree with that generally… unless you really can’t figure out the DAW like me with Reaper.

Now, I just might be an idiot… but I just couldn’t get along with that one and I’m very happy that I switched away to Cakewalk. That may have something to do with the quality of YouTube instruction I received with both DAWs though 

I do think all these DAWs, Reaper included, are all pretty quality. I think there’s just a degree of personal preference with what you’d want to go with.

I’ve got a new MIDI keyboard coming in today so I will be able to program drums without using my keyboard to control the MIDI (which puts everything down at 100% velocity lol). I’ll probably spend all weekend trying to come up with a good drum beat

[Mel81x+]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I would agree with that generally… unless you really can’t figure out the DAW like me with Reaper.

Now, I just might be an idiot… but I just couldn’t get along with that one and I’m very happy that I switched away to Cakewalk. That may have something to do with the quality of YouTube instruction I received with both DAWs though 

I do think all these DAWs, Reaper included, are all pretty quality. I think there’s just a degree of personal preference with what you’d want to go with.

I’ve got a new MIDI keyboard coming in today so I will be able to program drums without using my keyboard to control the MIDI (which puts everything down at 100% velocity lol). I’ll probably spend all weekend trying to come up with a good drum beat

What happened to your beat machine? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

What happened to your beat machine? 

I still have it - and I have made/make some cool beats with it. But I feel like the sounds from it don’t really work with me playing metal.

I love the thing for when I’m incredibly stoned and want to make music without… doing too much. But it’s more like hip-hop/pop beats.

I also don’t think I can connect it to a computer - it’s not a MIDI controller, it just has a MIDI in.

With Cakewalk I programmed a shit drumbeat with my computer keyboard and then went and edited the velocity of each drumbeat… it was very very very time consuming so I wanted a MIDI to make some drum beats I can play along with.

Different toys for me for different kind of playing around with sounds!

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I still have it - and I have made/make some cool beats with it. But I feel like the sounds from it don’t really work with me playing metal.

I love the thing for when I’m incredibly stoned and want to make music without… doing too much. But it’s more like hip-hop/pop beats.

I also don’t think I can connect it to a computer - it’s not a MIDI controller, it just has a MIDI in.

With Cakewalk I programmed a shit drumbeat with my computer keyboard and then went and edited the velocity of each drumbeat… it was very very very time consuming so I wanted a MIDI to make some drum beats I can play along with.

Different toys for me for different kind of playing around with sounds!

I can totally relate to this. I went into Logic and thought shit I can write a drumbeat but if you dont feel it then it really sounds very mechanical. But, all things said the Maschine does allow me to set the track and then get going. Then there are crazy folks like this.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I can totally relate to this. I went into Logic and thought shit I can write a drumbeat but if you dont feel it then it really sounds very mechanical. But, all things said the Maschine does allow me to set the track and then get going. Then there are crazy folks like this.

 

The Maschine seems like an incredible little MIDI controller & that guy definitely has some serious finger drum skills!

What I’ve found too is that I don’t hate the sounds of my recording as much when it’s not just isolated guitar tracks. It just seems less… bizarre I guess hearing what I’ve played back when there’s drums there. Also makes it easier, playing along with something - less thinking about keeping time if you have something to play along with, so I make less mistakes and I don’t get that “red light fright” anywhere near as much - so maybe that’s why 

I think you have/had the one I’m getting, the Akai MPKIII mini play - it’ll be my first MIDI controller and I’ve heard they are good value. And it’s not going to take up too much space on my desk.

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The Maschine seems like an incredible little MIDI controller & that guy definitely has some serious finger drum skills!

What I’ve found too is that I don’t hate the sounds of my recording as much when it’s not just isolated guitar tracks. It just seems less… bizarre I guess hearing what I’ve played back when there’s drums there. Also makes it easier, playing along with something - less thinking about keeping time if you have something to play along with, so I make less mistakes and I don’t get that “red light fright” anywhere near as much - so maybe that’s why 

I think you have/had the one I’m getting, the Akai MPKIII mini play - it’ll be my first MIDI controller and I’ve heard they are good value. And it’s not going to take up too much space on my desk.

I still have it and its great becasue its so small you can take it anywhere. The only limiter is just that it was a pain to setup with a DAW so im glad i got the Maschine and I didn't need the fancy one with the solo components (although it is cool). The ableton one is nice too - Ableton Push 2

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Mel81x said:

I still have it and its great becasue its so small you can take it anywhere. The only limiter is just that it was a pain to setup with a DAW so im glad i got the Maschine and I didn't need the fancy one with the solo components (although it is cool). The ableton one is nice too - Ableton Push 2

Aw shit more DAW growing pains ahead for me! Just as I was getting more comfortable with the fucking software 

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Aw shit more DAW growing pains ahead for me! Just as I was getting more comfortable with the fucking software 

Once you learn it its very hard to unlearn it because you know how the connections work, etc. I tried it with CakeWalk and its wasn't ... too bad. Take that with a pinch of salt.

[Happy Blue]

14 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Up first is my iPhone placed on top of amp top left corner with Bass up and mids down with treble down too. 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/zvt5ssqy0xulutt/U2_-_I_Still_Haven%27t_Found_What_I%27m_Looking_For_-_iPhone.m4a/file

I'll post the mic sample once I get it all setup and I'll use the same song so you can see the isolation effect of the mic from the room.

Oh and I wouldn't hear this all the way up the bass literally starts to get very heavy.

Sounds good   ..as for DAW i've down loaded the free version of ProToolsFirst, just need a mic now to get cracking!!  ...then i can send you my songs to add some bass too   

[Dr. Gonzo]

People seem to really hate the drum kit that comes with Cakewalk. But I don't think it's that bad. Am I just an idiot?

I looked at some clips of EZDrummer 2 and... yeah... that sounds better to me, for sure. But I've heard way worse fake drums than the Cakewalk one... and at least Cakewalk's is free. Yeah, it's not like EZDrummer where I can buy a pack and it sampled Death's Sean Reinert (which is cool)... but for a free drum kit, it's not so bad?

Is it just shit compared to other DAW's included drums? Because if that's the case... I better find myself another free plugin to enhance my experience.

[Happy Blue]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

People seem to really hate the drum kit that comes with Cakewalk. But I don't think it's that bad. Am I just an idiot?

I looked at some clips of EZDrummer 2 and... yeah... that sounds better to me, for sure. But I've heard way worse fake drums than the Cakewalk one... and at least Cakewalk's is free. Yeah, it's not like EZDrummer where I can buy a pack and it sampled Death's Sean Reinert (which is cool)... but for a free drum kit, it's not so bad?

Is it just shit compared to other DAW's included drums? Because if that's the case... I better find myself another free plugin to enhance my experience.

Whats the best thing to get for death metal drum patterns?  ..i normally just go on you tube and jam along to someone doing a drum cover  id really like to make my own songs though, i can growl just not at the same time as playing guitar lol

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

Whats the best thing to get for death metal drum patterns?  ..i normally just go on you tube and jam along to someone doing a drum cover  id really like to make my own songs though, i can growl just not at the same time as playing guitar lol

At first, I was trying to make drum beats just using a DAW, the drumkit that came with my DAW, and my PC keyboard as a MIDI controller. I don't recommend using a PC keyboard as a MIDI controller - it works, but it's very limited and it takes a lot of extra work to make it sound natural after you've programmed in a drumbeat.

I got a little AKAI MIDI Controller Keyboard with Drum Pads & it's MUCH better. I mostly use the drumpads, because those have the best velocity controls but I've messed around with using the keys + the pads as well to program MIDI drums.

I'm sure ProToolsFirst has a virtual drumkit you can use with MIDI tracks - so I'd mess around with that first, rather than getting external software that costs money. But if you want to pay for something good, EZDrummer 2 is what I've been eyeballing - but there's also Superior Drummer 3 - they both look pretty good. EZDrummer is supposed to be... easier.

I'm not willing to pay for anymore software anytime soon  so I'll probably spend a while looking for something free & I'll let you know if I find anything decent.

I'll probably end up getting EZDrummer and some of the metal packs (the death metal pack got one of my favourite death metal drummers as the sampled drum noises... so that's pretty cool). But until I get better at: 1.) programming drums, 2.) recording myself playing, 3.) ehh... just writing shite  - I think I'll mess around with the free stuff for now.

[Happy Blue]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

At first, I was trying to make drum beats just using a DAW, the drumkit that came with my DAW, and my PC keyboard as a MIDI controller. I don't recommend using a PC keyboard as a MIDI controller - it works, but it's very limited and it takes a lot of extra work to make it sound natural after you've programmed in a drumbeat.

I got a little AKAI MIDI Controller Keyboard with Drum Pads & it's MUCH better. I mostly use the drumpads, because those have the best velocity controls but I've messed around with using the keys + the pads as well to program MIDI drums.

I'm sure ProToolsFirst has a virtual drumkit you can use with MIDI tracks - so I'd mess around with that first, rather than getting external software that costs money. But if you want to pay for something good, EZDrummer 2 is what I've been eyeballing - but there's also Superior Drummer 3 - they both look pretty good. EZDrummer is supposed to be... easier.

I'm not willing to pay for anymore software anytime soon  so I'll probably spend a while looking for something free & I'll let you know if I find anything decent.

I'll probably end up getting EZDrummer and some of the metal packs (the death metal pack got one of my favourite death metal drummers as the sampled drum noises... so that's pretty cool). But until I get better at: 1.) programming drums, 2.) recording myself playing, 3.) ehh... just writing shite  - I think I'll mess around with the free stuff for now.

Well, i'm absolutely wank at drums so need to get some ready made patterns to piece together   ...i'm looking to make songs along the lines of Corpses "scourge of iron" really heavy slow doom'y sounding riffs with death metal sections so just find my favourite songs, change a few notes and piece them together, this music writing is easy   ..works for avenge sevenfold anyway lol

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Well, i'm absolutely wank at drums so need to get some ready made patterns to piece together   ...i'm looking to make songs along the lines of Corpses "scourge of iron" really heavy slow doom'y sounding riffs with death metal sections so just find my favourite songs, change a few notes and piece them together, this music writing is easy   ..works for avenge sevenfold anyway lol

I think with EZ Drummer & Superior Drummer it’s got “MIDI grove loops” you can import into your DAW and have some ready made tracks

[Dr. Gonzo]

Finger drumming (with 8 drum pads) is a piece of piss though if you practice with a metronome

[Happy Blue]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think with EZ Drummer & Superior Drummer it’s got “MIDI grove loops” you can import into your DAW and have some ready made tracks

I will have a look for that then mate, sounds good  hopefully cheap! lol

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Happy Blue found something decent sounding & free, with a nice sized library of grooves. Gonna give it a whirl now, but figured I’d post think link before I get lost in it:

https://www.powerdrumkit.com/download76187.php

[Mel81x+]

All this DAW and drums discussion and I got excluded

Jokes aside, drums with a MIDI keyboard and more importantly a pad will make any drum kit sound good. I have the drum kits from - https://www.thelooploft.com/collections/maschine-drum-kits and they are superb. No jokes, just superb. There is a drum kit for large scapes in there and phew its amazing. I'll make a sample and send it today as I have been told by my boss I should take the day off haha.

I also believe they can be programmed into any DAW but I haven't really tried them with Logic Pro yet. The samples are all WAV files that can be used with velocity.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mel81x