Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said: He goes to his knees. This is basic why can’t people grasp this? You dive you appeal and you dive on the floor, stumbling to the floor on your knees and not appealing after contact twice isn’t a dive. It never will be it was a perfectly legitimate goal. As I said I think it is the wrong decision. However my first instinct when I saw him go down( which is what the referee would have saw) is he was going down theatrically. Also he then has time to realise his teammate will get the ball and probably score and so time to think don't appeal we have the advantage. It's a bad decision but I can understand why the referee did it. The proplem is VAR can't change that because the referee blew his whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 @Stan can referees see a video in the premier League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted September 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: @Stan can referees see a video in the premier League? I don't think so. Not seen any monitors at the side of pitches. Purely reliant on Stockley Park officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Stan said: I don't think so. Not seen any monitors at the side of pitches. Purely reliant on Stockley Park officials. That it is the big issue for me. Personally I think when there is a reasonable penalty call they should just run straight over and look at the monitors. Which they can't at the moment because they don't have them. I'm not talking about every little call I mean reasonable calls. I think there may be a bit of a misconception with some people ( not you I know you get it) VAR doesn't make the decision the referee does. The var team tell the referee what they saw and then the referee makes the decision. So unless the referee is shore he won't overturn his original decision. Personally I think if he could see a replay it would be better. It wouldn't be necessary for offsides and mistaken identity because that is black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted September 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted September 1, 2019 The clear and obvious thing is probably the sticking point at the moment. They either need to change the wording or soften their definition of "clear and obvious". I haven't seen the highlights of yesterday's games with Grealish, Tielemans etc. but it sounds like the decisions were clear and obvious to most people, but that the VAR team need it to be absolutely indisputable before they overrule the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 @The Artful Dodger How was Tomori at RB for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: The clear and obvious thing is probably the sticking point at the moment. They either need to change the wording or soften their definition of "clear and obvious". I haven't seen the highlights of yesterday's games with Grealish, Tielemans etc. but it sounds like the decisions were clear and obvious to most people, but that the VAR team need it to be absolutely indisputable before they overrule the referee. The referee had blown the whistle though mate so it can't be overturned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Grew into a poor team after a difficult start. I'd be surprised if he made it at the highest level but you never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Dan said: Football's rules aren't black and white enough for VAR to ever be a success and it will continue being a farce. Why anybody thinks it's teething problems is anyone's guess. If that Haller penalty shout isn't getting overturned then I can't see any possible justification for having VAR and it makes a mockery of the idea that VAR has improved decision making. It actually hasn't at all has it really? The rules they're following with VAR are downright bizarre that I don't even know where to start. It's like they're making it up as they go along. Absolute toss. These are the teething problems. We now have clear rules around offside and handball, and VAR is able to make consistent decisions on them. Sharpen the rules around contact fouls and all of a sudden VAR will be a lot better on those as well. It needs it, to be fair, because that's a massive weak spot for VAR at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,915 Posted September 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: These are the teething problems. We now have clear rules around offside and handball, and VAR is able to make consistent decisions on them. Sharpen the rules around contact fouls and all of a sudden VAR will be a lot better on those as well. It needs it, to be fair, because that's a massive weak spot for VAR at the moment When you're ruling out goals like the Dendoncker and Jesus ones then I think all common sense has been taken out of the game. Not one appeal on either goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold 599 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dan said: When you're ruling out goals like the Dendoncker and Jesus ones then I think all common sense has been taken out of the game. Not one appeal on either goal. I didn't see the Dendoncker one, but I remember being told about this time last year that it was "just common sense" that Bolly's goal vs Man City should've been disallowed for handball despite it being clearly accidental. The thing with common sense is that it's subjective, and that's exactly what VAR has to override to get some consistency in decisions. Appeals are completely irrelevant. Players not appealling doesn't mean under any circumstances that there hasn't been a foul (or that they're not trying to simulate a foul, in the case of Jack Grealish). It's that attitude that leads to the "players have to go down to get a decision" thing that goes hand in hand with diving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Stan said: Where/what is the joke You misunderstand my defence of VAR. Funnily enough, I can accept it has its problems like I have several occasions. On the other hand, you totally can't accept that it has any positives even when it has worked as intended. Because you're so against it from the outset you fail to see anything it does correctly or even when it works efficiently. I can as well mate. I’ve mentioned before that it’s a good concept but I don’t think there’s any way it can work because of the fact a human is needed for it to function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: As I said I think it is the wrong decision. However my first instinct when I saw him go down( which is what the referee would have saw) is he was going down theatrically. Also he then has time to realise his teammate will get the ball and probably score and so time to think don't appeal we have the advantage. It's a bad decision but I can understand why the referee did it. The proplem is VAR can't change that because the referee blew his whistle. He didn’t though 4 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: The referee had blown the whistle though mate so it can't be overturned Watch it I see no whistle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: He didn’t though Watch it I see no whistle There was some controversy about it. They said he had blown his whistle but if he hasn't it makes it worse as it could have been overturned. There was a whistle blown but if it isn't the referee and it was from the crowd then that is an even worse decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 @Grizzly21 what do you mean it won't work because a human is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: @Grizzly21 what do you mean it won't work because a human is needed? I think hes saying that the guy who is sat watching replays (VAR) is only another human opinion. A human opinion doesn't make it the correct decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I think hes saying that the guy who is sat watching replays (VAR) is only another human opinion. A human opinion doesn't make it the correct decision. No but someone who has had time to look at it and has a reply has more chance of getting it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: No but someone who has had time to look at it and has a reply has more chance of getting it right Yeah I get that, all I'm saying is, for instance, they keep banging on about clear and obvious decisions. Well what might seem clear and obvious to one person might not seem clear and obvious to another. VAR is just another human opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: Yeah I get that, all I'm saying is, for instance, they keep banging on about clear and obvious decisions. Well what might seem clear and obvious to one person might not seem clear and obvious to another. VAR is just another human opinion. Yeah but more decisions are being got right because of it. It will never be perfect but it is better. Also a referees opinion is worth more than an average fan. They are trained professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: Yeah but more decisions are being got right because of it. It will never be perfect but it is better. Also a referees opinion is worth more than an average fan. They are trained professionals. It isn't better. Nudge posted a while back that it only improved decisions by 5% and before it was 93%. For it to completely ruin the spectacle for only that small a percentage isn't what I call "improvement". I genuinely cannot believe people would rather have "correct decisions" over a proper spectacle, the reason we fell in love with the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted September 1, 2019 35 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said: It isn't better. Nudge posted a while back that it only improved decisions by 5% and before it was 93%. For it to completely ruin the spectacle for only that small a percentage isn't what I call "improvement". I genuinely cannot believe people would rather have "correct decisions" over a proper spectacle, the reason we fell in love with the sport. You can still have both. They're not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Stan said: You can still have both. They're not mutually exclusive. That's not been the case the past 3 years this has been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted September 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said: That's not been the case the past 3 years this has been around. Sorry but that's bullshit. There have been plenty of games which have still been a 'spectacle' even with VAR involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, Stan said: Sorry but that's bullshit. There have been plenty of games which have still been a 'spectacle' even with VAR involvement. Maybe for you, but for most of us the spectacle is being killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted September 1, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted September 1, 2019 Isn't there a thread for VAR? Feels like everyone's established where they stand with it and aren't going to change their minds for at least a while yet we keep getting 2-3 page debates on tiny points of incidents when really it's just people pushing their opinion on VAR at every opportunity. It's becoming the new Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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