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Where have all the Captains gone?

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This week has seen some strange results and I am getting the feeling that there is one common factor causing teams to under-perform - Anyone else agree with the thought that

a) Germany are suffering due to Kimmich being too young - but an obvious choice, but Philip Lahm's leadership is missing

b) What would John Terry have done to England in Prague?

c) Vincent Kompany would never have let Man City lose that game last week

d) Man U are over the place like headless chickens at times

e) Spurs are likewise suffering from a lack of direction on the pitch

f) Bayern - minus Lahm are likewise not with it at present

g) My lot have a new, decent tough talking coach, but on the field can be woeful in the discipline arena

h) Kloppy has got Van Dyke - 'nuff said!

Are these the ponderings of an ageing brain or is footy suffering as much as the Johnson/Trump world around us?

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Captains are of very limited, almost zero, importance in football, the only way any of those players would have made a difference is because of their quality, not being a captain.

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5 minutes ago, SchalkeUK said:

This week has seen some strange results and I am getting the feeling that there is one common factor causing teams to under-perform - Anyone else agree with the thought that

a) Germany are suffering due to Kimmich being too young - but an obvious choice, but Philip Lahm's leadership is missing

b) What would John Terry have done to England in Prague?

c) Vincent Kompany would never have let Man City lose that game last week

d) Man U are over the place like headless chickens at times

e) Spurs are likewise suffering from a lack of direction on the pitch

f) Bayern - minus Lahm are likewise not with it at present

g) My lot have a new, decent tough talking coach, but on the field can be woeful in the discipline arena

h) Kloppy has got Van Dyke - 'nuff said!

Are these the ponderings of an ageing brain or is footy suffering as much as the Johnson/Trump world around us?

Good point. 

I wonder how many more Champions league titles Barca would have won this decade if Carlos Puyol was wearing the armband?

I fully agree there is a shortage of true on pitch leaders and to me it seems that teams mostly don't consider this in their recruiting.... They will just recruit a high quality player but not one with leadership potential... For me that's an oversight and definitely a reason why teams are more inconsistent these days despite the financial disparities being at an all time high...

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3 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Captains are of very limited, almost zero, importance in football, the only way any of those players would have made a difference is because of their quality, not being a captain.

It's not about the title but the player who owns and embodies that role is hugely important. In some cases will have more impact on the player mentality on the pitch than the manager will.

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

It's not about the title but the player who owns and embodies that role is hugely important. In some cases will have more impact on the player mentality on the pitch than the manager will.

Good football teams are about the whole dressing room, the captain plays no majorly significant role whatsoever. Look at all the best teams and you'll see strong characters throughout the team, the captain is meaningless and mainly a PR role. The captain cannot control anything like say in cricket and has no extra ability because of the captaincy. People talk about players like Keane, Gerrard etc but their importance was because of their quality, nothing to do with being a 'captain'.

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Their leadership qualities were hugely important. That's a great aspect of VVD. He's not the Liverpool Captain but he exudes that same confidence and it seems to rub off on the players.

 

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23 minutes ago, Harry said:

Their leadership qualities were hugely important. That's a great aspect of VVD. He's not the Liverpool Captain but he exudes that same confidence and it seems to rub off on the players.

 

Exactly, the post of captain is completely meaningless. That's my point.

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44 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Exactly, the post of captain is completely meaningless. That's my point.

Which is fair. But I doubt the original claim was specific to the role of Captain. If Puyol had not been Captain and instead it was some flake like pique it may not have changed much, but it wouldn't change the statement that those leader type players seem harder to come by these days. 

Usually you can spot those players though and it makes sense to give them the role. It will still give that player some extra cred in the dressing room and therefore not be totally insignificant

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What makes people say that X is a good leader anyway? Because he is wearing an armband? A leader or dominate personality will be just that regardless of an armband; and no, I do not think the likes of Roy Keane being an angry cunt makes him a good leader.

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Thanks to all for making this a worthwhile comment - just to mention that when Stevie G took over the captaincy of England from JT it all went to pot which is in no way a criticism of Stevie's playing capability!  I still believe a good captain is needed for the success of any team.  I am old enough to remember those who were around with Bobby Moore - even the mad (on the pitch) Scotsman at Elland Road - and no one argued with him!  He was a perfect gent often in the bar in the City Hotel in Leeds

Edited by SchalkeUK

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Depends what you define a captain as. People tend to pigeon-hole a leader or captain as someone who is more vocal, strong or the no-nonsense type personality, for example, Terry, Puyol, or Keane. A captain or leader on a pitch for me is someone who doesn't hide when the going gets tough, someone who demands the ball and plays the same way and implements the manager's instructions no matter how the game is going. Being vocal and shouting your ass off would be the least of my concerns, don't get me wrong communication on the pitch is vital but you don't have to overdo it either.

Before Lahm really rose to prominence in Germany they were saying the German team lacked leadership because Lahm wasn't like Kahn or Ballack who were seen as leaders in the sense people tend to classify leaders by, as mentioned at the start of my post. More in line with what @The Artful Dodger is saying, Lahm was a good captain because he was an extremely good footballer and led by example in the way he played.

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There is an obvious lack of leadership in most teams now, yes. Although I can imagine why, with the current football climate and the generation of players who came through in the late noughties, as to why they wouldn't have these personality traits. 

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5 hours ago, SchalkeUK said:

Thanks to all for making this a worthwhile comment - just to mention that when Stevie G took over the captaincy of England from JT it all went to pot which is in no way a criticism of Stevie's playing capability!  I still believe a good captain is needed for the success of any team.  I am old enough to remember those who were around with Bobby Moore - even the mad (on the pitch) Scotsman at Elland Road - and no one argued with him!  He was a perfect gent often in the bar in the City Hotel in Leeds

England were just as dreadful with Terry as captain, in fact they didn't even qualify for euro 2008 when he was captain. 

 

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England were also just as poor defensively with Terry and Rio as they are with Stones and Maguire. 

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11 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Captains are of very limited, almost zero, importance in football, the only way any of those players would have made a difference is because of their quality, not being a captain.

I disagree with the sentiment to an extent, but I also think the word "captain" is glorified. Leadership is better.

For example, Peru would not have made the world cup if it weren't Guerrero's leadership. Or maybe the Copa America final. There are actually videos on Youtube that demonstrate his attitude and when I first saw them, they changed my view on captains or leaders as a whole. It really has to do with who you give it to.

I always think a half respected strong character is the way to go.

Here are the videos by the way

 

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6 hours ago, Spike said:

What makes people say that X is a good leader anyway? Because he is wearing an armband? A leader or dominate personality will be just that regardless of an armband; and no, I do not think the likes of Roy Keane being an angry cunt makes him a good leader.

Like I said above, have to be half respected and a strong character.

Someone like Neymar for example, is not a captain. He is fully respected within the Brazil team but he's a terrible captain because he's a dressing room poison. We've seen it at PSG as well.

There is a certain someone else I have in mind who is a dressing room poison but if I mention it I'll get accused of "baiting".

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