The Artful Dodger

Just to say, in 1923 there was a putcsch attempted in a beer hall in Munich. Much like this it was unorganised, pitiful and sad. But 10 years later...

Please learn, America is on a precipice. 

These people aren’t going against ‘American history’ they are American history. 
 

Perhaps more people might come round to my way, and most of the worlds thinking, that the USA is the biggest danger to life on the planet. Awful country.

2 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

So you want a British example? How about the children working under catastrophic conditions in factories during Manchester capitalism? Worded my response poorly, what I meant is: We as humans, of all nationalities by the way, tend to overrate the difficulties we face ourselves and to underrate difiiculties those before our time lived through. As unconvinient as the current situation for children ever might be it's a joke compared with the problems former generations had, so stay realistic and do not exaggerate that enormously.

Ok, point taken. Perhaps there were other generations who sacrificed. However, I'd argue this is the only generation that has been required as a whole, to forego their future specifically for the adults. Usually it's either the other way around or a mixture. Now, obviously the latest lockdown is essential but the way children and young people have been talked about throughout the whole saga is as almost a pestilence,  responsible for spreading disease etc. These people will be old one day, and if they've got no education, no prospects and no money then we will have serious problems.

13 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Yes, there has. In 1944 pupils in Germany left school earlier, to join the army, so they didn't not only sacrifice their future but also potentially their lifes. Also a lot of children in developing countries have to sacrifice their childhood to help their families to survive, the world doesn't consist of Britain only.

I'm not sure that's a great point, considering the cause they were fighting for but yes, as Rando says, I'm talking about Britain. 
 

20 hours ago, Stan said:

 

 

A nice touch perhaps but ultimately our children are going to suffer greatly because of this. Perhaps not right now but each day out of education does damage. I understand at the moment they have to be lockdown but they should be the absolute priority when it comes to reopening things. Has there ever been an equivalent generation where children are sacrificing their futures for the adult generation? With this and Brexit happening, I wouldn't blame any young person for feeling that the generations above them have been completely failed in their duty, which is always to hand over a country in the best possible condition for young people to thrive. Not one thought has been given to them, instead they have been tacitly blamed for the disease. 

Seeing the crowded streets of New Zealand to see in New Year is pretty depressing.

I don't think many people can even come close to Dylan but this perhaps tops it, without wanting to sound pretentious it's incredibly moving

Actually agree with Carefreeluke. I know I've made some remarks about Lampard but surely he, if any manager ever at Chelsea is, is going to get proper time to build something. I assume the idea is to build an identity that can live on from manager to manager, which is something Chelsea have lacked really. Obviously your ruthless acquisition of trophies has meant it didn't really matter but I think that's what Abramovich has sought here, he's been a known admirer of managers like Guardiola who build a definitive and enjoyable style. I'm not sure Lampard is that man, but given his close affinity with the club it would seem he'd be the one to try and build it. I think Abramovich, and many of the fans, would deal with a couple of trophyless seasons if you end up building something like Klopp's Liverpool. Which is not only successful but enjoyable to watch and has that real connection with the fans.

I know there are many people flouting the rules without a care but I still can’t get myself angry about another person not wearing a mask, for a simple fact I don’t know they have a reason not to do so and that it would be none of my business if they do. 

Only just seen the Villa goal, Christ it’s another shocker from Mendy. Another new keeper on the cards in January or will they wait until summer?

5 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Should we have tier systems per region or just one for the whole country?

We are too small to have a tier system, it's only a matter of time. We should all lockdown as one.

S

What I do think is wrong is this staggered lockdown. We all know we’re going into a full one sooner or later, just do it now. I’m happy for a few more days of well poured Guinness but it’s not the priority.

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Come on guys. Nothing the government have said about either of these new strains contradicts SAGE and their own findings. Yes this was always likely to happen, and it's surprising that it's taken this long then happened twice in a week, but that doesn't mean it's been exaggerated or it's some sort of conspiracy. Yes it's convenient for them to bin the unsuccessful tiered system, that doesn't change the fact that the England new strain is 70% more infectious than what we've been dealing with before. And the South African one is supposed to be more infectious based on early research.

If anyone can find any evidence that a) there have been other more potent strains over the past year that have been kept quiet by the UK government or b) that the potency of these two new strains is being exaggerated for political reasons then we can have a conversation. Until then it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned. There is a middle ground between playing down the changing risk posed by these new strains and running around waving your arms in the air shouting doomsday prophecies.

I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy. It’s just something that was always going to happen, has happened and is not the end of the world. I think some people think we should be just at no Covid cases whatsoever. All this ‘super Covid’ is hysteria.

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Sake

People need to get some perspective on what ‘new strain’ means. It’s the same virus with over a certain amount of mutations, this was always going to happen. It happens every year with the flu and other illnesses. There is no evidence the vaccine won’t work against them.

57 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think there’s a massive difference in what are for instance supported accommodation homes, resedential homes and care homes. My mum died in a nursing care bed in March riddled with cancer on a syringe driver. Couldn’t really expect family to look after someone who was that heavily dependent on nursing care. Same with end stage dementia. You can’t expect a family to look after someone 24/7 when they’ve got kids/jobs etc and don’t have the specialist facilities. 
 

My Mrs’ grandmother was in supported accommodation and said it was the best thing she ever did at 88. Got to play bingo everyday, sit with ladies her age and discuss interest and went on days out. 
 

Now of course, there is also the shite side where families simply stick relatives in when they can’t be arsed, but again there’s usually some form of capacity assessment before this is allowed. 

It’s your last paragraph I’m talking about and I’m not trying to judge people. We live in a society which means we have no time, family is looked as peripheral rather than central to our lives. I think we should try and reverse this.

Balotelli is a mad one. He was never a truly world class talent but he had enough to play at the top level for his whole career.

I do wonder about the mental side of being a black player in Italy, the abuse they get is really astonishing and some of the tales about what he suffered over there are horrific. 

10 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

I agree we have everything to learn from the East, but the point I'm getting at is that the difference is the virus didn't go through their population. Not that the virus went through their population and they were just healthier. There's a reason it didn't go through it and that's what we have to learn. I don't think we can start to play the freedom request card when we haven't learned how to stop it spreading in the first place. 

I 100% agree but now we're past the point of no return, where do we turn?

I am being unreasonably grumpy today, my Mum lives in Scotland and won't be travelling down for Christmas now. I know it's not the greatest sacrifice but just seems this year is never ending.

4 minutes ago, MUFC said:

As a Muslim, putting your parents in a care home is a huge sin.

Oh care homes.

Oh elderly.

Oh Pakistan.

Christian belief is similar, at its heart.

We've become so rooted in money and our own life that we just want the easiest solution. There are conditions which need care which the family can't provide I'm not trying to judge people here. It's what we encourage as a society. But I do think, as best we can, we should look after our family cradle to the grave. Having your loved ones around you when you are coming to the end can make such a difference.

Might be controversial but I'll put this out there: the multi million business of care homes is a moral stain on this country. Only the most exceptional circumstances should an elderly person go to a car home, the family should take care of them. They looked after us as kids and we should look after them when they are old. It is the absolute epitome of Thatcherism that they are seen as annoying, dispensable people who we can lump off. I sincerely hope that if I have any children they love me enough not not to put me in a home, the most cruel fate for anyone. 

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Top 10 most obese countries are all east of Europe..........

I don't know their COVID stats, do you? The UK is the most obsese country in Europe, we see old people as burdens and families refuse to look after their own old and put them in homes. I know people will refuse to look at ourselves but there is a lot we can learn. Our culture is part of the issue. Nobody will admit it though.

1 minute ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

Japan and South Korea same age rates if not older.

Yes and they look after older people properly there, unlike our country which shunt them off to care homes as soon as we can. This whole thing is a damning indictment of the West, and are still reacting. Absolutely no fortitude whatsoever, just blame and sorrow. I hope we never hear anything about the made up 'Blitz spirit' ever again.

Just now, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

Spain and Italy are ranked as the top two healthiest countries in the world and they have the same covid rates as the UK if not worse. 

Old populations and increasing obesity. The healthy east is fine, fat, decrepit west is struggling. It's no surprise. 

1 minute ago, nudge said:

There's an old Russian saying which basically claims that "Russia cannot be understood by the mind alone", but I think you can apply it to the US pretty well, too  

Sad thing is people see Russia as the enemy behind everything, when in fact the biggest enemy to the world is and peace is the USA. Has been for 30 years.

9 minutes ago, nudge said:

Western society has indeed become very risk-averse, there's no doubt about that... 

I genuinely fear for the future, we've unleased a tide of people who are happy to grass on their neighbours for seeing a family member, agree to any restriction however arbitrary because of 'the virus!'. We need to accept that diseases will spread because human beings are emotional and social beings, I think attempting to curb those innate things will do more long term damage than the virus will. Now that's not to say restrictions aren't necessary, of course they are. But this resentment against fellow citizens is really worrying.