SirBalon

2 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'm pretty certain I didn't say the papers were left wing. But tv media appear to be left leaning at least

I beg your pardon... Who?

The BBC? That one would be way too easy and I doubt you're that foolish.

Channel 4? Left I don't know, pro-EU yes!

SKY?  Rupert Murdoch!

Finally we come to ITV... They lean to the left? Really!?! How? Why? When? Where?

What "left-wing" channel is it you're watching for your intake of political analysis mate? Because I can't work it out. Maybe next you'll be telling me Julia Hartley-Brewer on Talk Radio is left-wing!

Have a look at this on the newspaper side of things.

http://www.albionmill.org.uk/?p=1476

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Television media in general do a very poor job of holding people to account

Channel 4 are very good at this although they are also very pro-EU which will play on stupid people's minds and that's understandable. Facts are only digestible if it fits the rhetoric.

14 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@SirBalonim not sure if I believe that. Well not all of it anyway.  I'm left wing for the most part and I don't agree the media is biased towards the left. Some papers are but some are left wing as well. Most TV media is biased towards the left if anything.

Mate, sometimes I wonder with you...

Firstly look at the owners of the media and print for the most used news media and then think first.

These are the top selling newspapers in the UK... I wanted a list for England because Brexit is an English issue not one of the United Kingdom which is unfair. But on examining the list, it works anyway.

Tell me how many left wing papers are on that list and if you like, after this I can show you something pretty incredible on request.  Only if you want to have a look.

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There are people on the right who aren't rich who are climate change deniers. ( I posted about this in the climate change thread if you wanna go into more detail.) What I don't understand now why it appears to be more of a right wing thing. I don't like to make judgements but the  climate  change deniers I have met have been racist and lazy thinkers. Being racist is easy. It's easy to blame other people. It's easy to make racial generalisations,it's also easy to be a climate change denier because then you don't have to take as much responsibilty. I do wonder if that is the link between climate change denial and the right wing.  Lazy thinking.

He (Dr. Gonzo) explained it in the post you are responding him on mate. Those on the far right, the rich, the powerful, they own most of the influential media and they pump that rhetoric into impressionable minds. Hence why Brexiters are consistently called thick (the ones that stand to lose a hell of a lot more). With that I'm not saying they are indeed thick, maybe innocent and what they definitely are in my eye, is victims. Infact being called a volunteer victim is possibly the worst thing in the world in the way I've been brought up... It would be a hell of a lot more offensive to me than being called stupid.

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Ah right. I don't think Corbyn would make a good pm but they can get of him. If Johnson gets in and takes us out the EU we can't change that. For a while anyway

Not only would we have to wait at least another generation to re-join the EU. The worst bit is that I can assure you we would not have all the unique perks we currently enjoy.

20 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@SirBalon who can vote in the referendum if there is one? I know you were allowed to. Are the people who came in 2005 allowed to or do they have to have been here for longer and have British citizenship?

Anyone that can vote in a General Election can also vote in a Referendum. 

You have to be British, Irish, Commonwealth citizen with residence in the UK or a British Citizen living abroad that is registered to vote in the last 15 years. Oh, and over 18 in all cases!

We do indeed live in curuous times, quite shocking times to be honest.

Why such a senior party member be standing down at a time like this is beyond me, but what's for sure is that this letter of resignation below does not tell the truth. But then again I wouldn't have expected him to cause a perfect storm against the party I more than am positive still wants to win the General Election. Only that he has decided it will be without the deputy leader of the party. I'm not going to go into all the small details of what's been going on recently to add more fuel to this especially what was tried on him by his party seniors and union members during the Labour Party congress... Let's just leave it as being a vital blow for Labour right now... Food for the wankers on the other side to use so as to divert attention from their disgusting opinions on people less fortunate than them.

One of my favourite politicians is deleted from the active political map...

Niiiice

I wonder who this individual will be voting for?

I bet anything he’s not a remainer either  

That question actually tells a story and encompasses the state of England.

Because the original tweet Lammy is answering is under investigation.

14 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Nobody will be surprised by his thinking. Not even worth engaging. It's the less well off that might weirdly vote Tory that need turning around and convincing

Many of them have unfortunately been groomed (let themselves be groomed) and are victims. It’s very difficult to change when that occurs even with all the facts put before them.

32 minutes ago, Pyfish said:

Never liked James before all of this shitshow started but he's a quality broadcaster. Him and the Simple Politics Facebook page are making it clearer for voters.

Apart from the fact James O'Brien has literally taught himself almost every word of what EU Membership means and contains, he employed a sitting researcher 2 years ago that sits in the studio with his producer and in any phonecall from a caller that researcher is immediately onto the details relating to what said caller is talking about and between his own extensive knowledge and then the exact wording within the subject being debated, he pulls the caller apart.

He himself says that there is absolutely no benefit for leaving the EU... NONE! I remember his talk at Waterstones and he reiterated that there isn't a single minuscule benefit for Brexit and due to this fact he has taken it upon himself to make sure this is made public.

Aside from his book (How To Be Right In A World Gone Wrong) which was the international best seller in all English speaking countries for many months, he also made the New York Times front page some months back on how he has almost off his own back taken Brexit to account in the UK. He has even made it into newspapers of most of Europe and has political fugures following him from Asia, through Europe to the Americas.

I KNOW it’s another James O’Brien radio excerpt (from yesterday morning’s show), but listen to it carefully. It’s just another example of the fucking hundreds over the past 3+ years that prove ONCE AGAIN that this is all fucking bullshit!

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Agreed. It's pathetic they can keep that information wrapped up with no consequence at all before a big vote in a matter of weeks... 

It is unbelievable, but a decent proportion of the blame lies at the feet of opposition parties in this General Election by not forcing the Government's hand and literally going hell for leather on this issue.   There will be a decent proportion of more moderate Tory voters that would be disgusted at finding out that any Tory MP was in any way involved in something as illegal as that.

26 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

How are the government allowed to just refuse to publish this report about Russia's involvement in Brexit until after the election? If this was Labour the media would be absolutely all over it (rightly) calling them corrupt and hiding it from the public, but because it's the Tories it's just getting vague lip service from a few outlets. Dominic Grieve should just come out and tell everyone what it says.

Appalling.

It's a barrel load of things, not just this latest thing. We can also remember how Theresa May refused to initiate an investigation into Cambridge Analytica, Aaron Banks amongst other illegal involvements and overspending on the Vote Leave and other pro-Brexit campaigns. There's tons of stuff like the lying in the Brexit campaigning!

This is Brexit's version of one of those great types of films that you just watch time and time again whike they always entertain you in the same way without fail.

Don't know if I've posted it before which would be odd, but I don't care... I'm doing it again because it's just 

Talking about discoveries 

@Carnivore Chris I'm sure will like this one...

This one is great... Followed Led By Donkeys during their active period and theyhave been absolutely brilliant.

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

No doubt part of the election is Brexit but I think there's polls that show that even people who voted for it show they care more about the NHS and the inequality in the country. Let's see, but from Labour's point of view they should be focusing on the bigger issues to win this election

27 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I was going to start a separate thread for the election. I think it would be better that way as well.

Start it if you wish guys, the forum belongs to you, all of you.

I just thought that seeing that the only reason a General Election was called was due to the impasse on Brexit, then that Brexit was always going to be a pretty large part of the debate on this particular GE even if the policies are also extremely important. It doesn't stop anyone in this case posting about the policies as I have also done this morning on a previous post.

Remember one thing if you decide to create a new thread... Brexit WILL be debated because Brexit is being consistently mentioned by all the political parties in this campaign.

The choice is yours chaps...

45 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

We need a separate thread for the election. Different thing altogether, sick of hearing about Brexit to be honest. Much bigger issues that a Labour government would sort

You may be sick of it mate and so are most of us. But Brexit is a massive part of this General Election and it is infact the sole reason it’s been called now for December. 

What happens when the debate inevitably contains Brexit issues mate?  It would become a mess and we’d also be talking Brexit on the other thread.

8 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

If they put their deal against Remain in a referendum and the people choose Remain then why should they take Brexit off the table?

It's not just that... Any deal that Labour would agree with the EU would be very very soft indeed, way too soft for the Tories and those that really want Brexit. Many would actually sway their vote then.

2 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

When was the last time Britain went through such political instability if you call it ?

The civil war.

2 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

It's fairly simple to fund, taxation. We are a low tax country and look like one, everyone moans but nobody wants to pay for anything! This isn't an anti-rich tirade, I want people to be able to make money and lead prosperous lives but a slight rise in tax wouldn't change that. Not just the rich either, I'm very far from being rich but wouldn't object to an extra £20-50 pound coming out of my pay packet if I knew it was going to help this country get itself together and flourish, everywhere, again.

I fully agree and there are many others that feel the same too. I have no problem whatsoever with paying my dues to make the UK a fairer place to reside in and inclusive for all. The US made itself great (initially) on being inclusive (considering the more primative mindsets on achieving such a goal) and that is part of what we have to change. The happiest countries statistically in the world are those that pay more taxes which is why I referred to the Scandinavian region who are top of the happy list.

I've changed the thread title to include the General Election because Brexit and this GE are on in the same thing seeing as nothing was sorted on the Brexit sphere during these three and a half years.

Ex Tory Prime Minister on THESE Tories and the NHS

The Labour Party have some great policies and few can deny this other than people that want to hoard money and not have a care in the world of abusing those that help create that money for them, ie workers.

It's bloody hilarious that the Conservative Party are purporting themselves as the party of change, to change things for the UK from the NHS, to policing, to education, to the environment when they're the ones that have been in bloody government for the last 9 years and it's their cuts that have generated this misery in the first place. Ironic that they're in actual fact campaigning against their own governance.

The Lib Dems right now are barren of policies other than remaining in the EU or so it seems but there is an important factor there that cannot be denied and that is that Brexit IS IMPORTANT and it has rightly dominated the political and national sphere for over three and a half years... The reason being, it has to be sorted and the best way to sort it after acquiring all the facts and knowledge is to remain in the EU and reform from within as from the outside you haven't got a chance in hell. So they're a useful tool, a tool they seem to be willing to be so as to achieve that target. They know full well they cannot win a GE but they have created and gained enough momentum to hurt the Tory Party in England alone and if the Labour Party were smart, they'd back that and leave them to their own devices while doing what they need to do which is to address the real reason why many voted Brexit which is that they've been forgotten and been left to rot.

I haven't a fucking clue as to how the Labour Party plan to finance their utopia-for-all, but what's written  on paper sounds fair and just. Many Scandanavian countries employ much of what Corbyn wants to achieve so it's not exactly as Communist as the Tories or other extreme right wing scumbags would like to make people believe.

But always remember this! What the right offer is in actual fact very appealing because what it sells is a false possibility of everyone having the chance to be a mega big shot with their vision of how society should be run when in actual fact what they believe in is protecting the extremel wealthy while permitting the use and abuse of workers.