Paolo Guerrero to Boca Juniors

[Guest]

All over the internet and news. It appears the interest is very serious. Not sure why he'd want to leave Rio for Buenos Aires but to play for Boca Juniors is an honour at the end of the day.

While I don't consider him world class like many others do, he's close to it. An absolutely phenomenal striker and by a mile the best player in the America's. I personally think he'd hate playing in Argentina because of how rough it can be. He's already tackled constantly in the qualifiers and usually hates it but its worse in the Argentinian league. Either way I think he'll succeed as I don't think there's many strikers with more strength than him.

Just a warning to anyone in Argentina though, if he does move to Boca, el pollo Vignolo will NOT stop talking about him.

[Spike]

I never really liked him. The onyl thing I can remember him doing is kicking some guy's leg in half and getting banned for a lot of games.

[Cure]

I'm sure the Brazilian is loving the news.

[nudge+]

Just now, Spike said:

I never really liked him. The onyl thing I can remember him doing is kicking some guy's leg in half and getting banned for a lot of games.

Sven Ulrich when he was still a goalie at Stuttgart. He also threw a water bottle at a fan and got a 5 match ban for that. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

I never really liked him. The onyl thing I can remember him doing is kicking some guy's leg in half and getting banned for a lot of games.

 

Just now, nudge said:

Sven Ulrich when he was still a goalie at Stuttgart. He also threw a water bottle at a fan and got a 5 match ban for that. 

He's peaking as a striker right now. He still has a bit of a temper but he's become more of a leader in that sense. He still has the potential to get a few matches banned but overall his consistency problems are almost gone and now focuses on playing football. This is why he's gone on to become Peru's all time top scorer and he's an absolutely phenomenal player now. 

Best player in the america's without a doubt. World class though? I'm not too sure. Many people in South America like to say he is, and to be honest I can see why but I still feel he's a bit inconsistent to be considered that.

[Spike]

Just now, LaSambadeStGermain said:

 

He's peaking as a striker right now. He still has a bit of a temper but he's become more of a leader in that sense. He still has the potential to get a few matches banned but overall his consistency problems are almost gone and now focuses on playing football. This is why he's gone on to become Peru's all time top scorer and he's an absolutely phenomenal player now. 

Best player in the america's without a doubt. World class though? I'm not too sure. Many people in South America like to say he is, and to be honest I can see why but I still feel he's a bit inconsistent to be considered that.

World Class would mean to me that he is the best player in his position in the world. So no, I don't think he is the greatest striker in the world !

[Guest]

Just now, Spike said:

World Class would mean to me that he is the best player in his position in the world. So no, I don't think he is the greatest striker in the world !

That's a bit too picky! For me it means top 10 in his position, top 20 at a push.

Honestly I can see why el Pollo Vignolo and other south american pundits would say this. He's left players like Godin and Otamendi on the ground more than once, and there are very few players stronger than him. His finishing can be poor though and add that with his consistency problems and that puts him back just a bit for me. He's definitely proven himself at a high standard at his peak but I think he just misses out. Once thing for sure is that there is no player better than him in the western world. Its not even a debate.

[nudge+]

He was already a good striker when he was playing for HSV, if it wasn't for his injuries in his debut season and his refusal to go back from Peru to Hamburg because of his fear of flying as well as other disciplinary problems and lack of professionalism afterwards, he could have become a very important part of the club. I think he just didn't adapt to living in Germany. 

[Cure]

5 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

That's a bit too picky! For me it means top 10 in his position, top 20 at a push.

Honestly I can see why el Pollo Vignolo and other south american pundits would say this. He's left players like Godin and Otamendi on the ground more than once, and there are very few players stronger than him. His finishing can be poor though and add that with his consistency problems and that puts him back just a bit for me. He's definitely proven himself at a high standard at his peak but I think he just misses out. Once thing for sure is that there is no player better than him in the western world. Its not even a debate.

I wouldn't call Hamburg and Corinthians the highest standard of football. Didn't put in too many games for Bayern either. I'm sensing a mix of Peruvian bias and genuine shit. Every player has their strengths and weaknesses but he's not at all distinguished and doesn't come to mind when I think of excellent strikers. I'd take Claudio Pizarro over him any day.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Cure said:

I wouldn't call Hamburg and Corinthians the highest standard of football. Didn't put in too many games for Bayern either. I'm sensing a mix of Peruvian bias and genuine shit. 

Lol, Peruvian bias by Vignolo, an Argentinian commentator who compared him to Luis Suarez. Yet I'm here trying to negate that. He's a phenomenal player and I've seen him. A top striker yes, world class no.

He's over 30 years old and in his peak. Add that to the fact that he's Peruvian and that puts off a lot of European teams. Corinthians and Flamengo is a good standard, but where has he proven himself? In the SA qualifiers which is arguably the second highest standard of football in the world. To have 30+ goals for a shit national team like Peru isn't a small feat. Its not just that though, everything else he does on the pitch is of an extremely high standard. He's left any defender that visits us in Lima on the floor including Otamendi, Funes Mori, Diego Godin and many others. To say I'm being "biased" considering you've never seen him play in your life and when I'm negating his world class status that he's granted here in South America rather than praise is absolutely fucking laughable. Just like with Rafa at Napoli, you're simply just taking a guess at his level based on stats.

Bore off.

 

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

That's a bit too picky! For me it means top 10 in his position, top 20 at a push.

Honestly I can see why el Pollo Vignolo and other south american pundits would say this. He's left players like Godin and Otamendi on the ground more than once, and there are very few players stronger than him. His finishing can be poor though and add that with his consistency problems and that puts him back just a bit for me. He's definitely proven himself at a high standard at his peak but I think he just misses out. Once thing for sure is that there is no player better than him in the western world. Its not even a debate.

It's semantics but to me, World Class means a plyer that is without a doubt the best. For instance this is how I rank:

GK: Gigi Buffon

Fullback/Wingback: ??? 

Centreback: Godin

Defensive Mid: Kante

Centre Mid: Pjanic

Attacking Mid: Iniesta? The position doesn't really exist anymore. 

Winger: Messi

Centre Forward: Messi

 

[Guest]

Just now, Spike said:

It's semantics but to me, World Class means a plyer that is without a doubt the best. For instance this is how I rank:

GK: Gigi Buffon

Fullback/Wingback: ??? 

Centreback: Godin

Defensive Mid: Kante

Centre Mid: Pjanic

Attacking Mid: Iniesta? The position doesn't really exist anymore. 

Winger: Messi

Centre Forward: Messi

 

Fair enough mate, we all view it differently. As I said, I don't think Guerrero is world class but I do think he's a top striker.

I said this in the Libertadores thread, he's a player that would do just as well in any league. If he played in England he'd score as many in Brazil and I'd say the same if he was in Peru. He's a holding up striker and there is very few defenders who can outstrength him. If he goes to Argentina though, it will be a test of his patience,

[Cure]

4 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

He's over 30 years old and in his peak. Add that to the fact that he's Peruvian and that puts off a lot of European teams.

 

Speaking from experience?

Aubameyang is from Gabon - not exactly the most distinguished of countries - yet nearly every club would fight to the death to sign him. No one cares what country you're from.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Fair enough mate, we all view it differently. As I said, I don't think Guerrero is world class but I do think he's a top striker.

I said this in the Libertadores thread, he's a player that would do just as well in any league. If he played in England he'd score as many in Brazil and I'd say the same if he was in Peru. He's a holding up striker and there is very few defenders who can outstrength him. If he goes to Argentina though, it will be a test of his patience,

I feel like we can meet somewhere in the middle. Maybe what you'd call 'world class' is what I'd call 'elite'.

[Cure]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

I feel like we can meet somewhere in the middle. Maybe what you'd call 'world class' is what I'd call 'elite'.

I'd be on the verge of going for 'cult hero'. For what Brian has said and looking at the stats he's not one of the best strikers in the world and he's clearly the subject of adoration amongst the few.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Cure said:

I'd be on the verge of going for 'cult hero'. For what Brian has said and looking at the stats he's not one of the best strikers in the world and he's clearly the subject of adoration amongst the few.

He is one the best stikers in South America. That is like 50% of the footballing world. It may exist within it's own bubble but it's equally as important as Europe.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Cure said:

Speaking from experience?

Do you have any idea how hard it is for Peruvians to play in Europe? We aren't a name in football and have the worst league in South America. Do you really think teams from the top 5 European leagues would rather waste their money on us than a proper name in football like Brazil, Argentina and Mexico? How much shite has Brazil had in Europe that got more chances than good Peruvian players. Claudio Pizarro is the only player who went straight from Peru to a top 5 European league that succeeded. Solano was at Boca Juniors so that helped his CV. 

If most Peruvians don't impress in 2 or 3 games then they are benched. Carlos Ascues had a superb Copa America in 2015, he went to Wolfsburg and made I think 1 appearance in 2 years. Chorri Palacios has always been better than Solano but never played in Europe. We've had some superb talent but they NEED to prove something or else they won't get a chance. Yet, 17 year old Brazilians will get easy moves to Europe because they are a name in football. Same with Mexico and Argentinians and 60% of the time they are awful. I've always said if we want to have a chance to qualify for the World Cup, we need most of our players within the Liga MX, Argentina Primera or Brasilerao because in Europe, they simply won't get games unless they are superb.

2 minutes ago, Cure said:

I'd be on the verge of going for 'cult hero'. For what Brian has said and looking at the stats he's not one of the best strikers in the world and he's clearly the subject of adoration amongst the few.

Judgement > Stats

You're fucking delusional.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Cure said:

Speaking from experience?

Aubameyang is from Gabon - not exactly the most distinguished of countries - yet nearly every club would fight to the death to sign him. No one cares what country you're from.

Aubemeyang is from France ffs. he just chose to play for Gabon. At least get your research right you mong.

[Spike]

Aubameyang isn't from Gabon  He is French.

[Cure]

35 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Aubemeyang is from France ffs. he just chose to play for Gabon. At least get your research right you mong.

He was born in France to a Gabonese father and a French-Spanish mother. He's from France but he's half-Gabonese so of Gabonese descent. If you had Peruvian parents but were born in Argentina you'd be Peruvian, simple as. That's how I see it.  He obviously felt inclined to play for Gabon instead which kind of identifies he feels a greater connection to the country than his adopted home nation of France.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Cure said:

He was born in France to a Gabonese father and a French-Spanish mother. He's from France but he's half-Gabonese so of Gabonese descent. If you had Peruvian parents but were born in Argentina you'd be Peruvian, simple as. That's how I see it.  He obviously felt inclined to play for Gabon instead which kind of identifies he feels a greater connection to the country than his adopted home nation of France.

He's still French. He was raised in France and trained by French clubs. If he was born in Gabon and was trained by Gabonese clubs I highly doubt he'd be where he is now. So your argument yet again doesn't work. I'd be willing to bet he chose to play for Gabon because he felt he wasn't good enough for France at the time and even that is irrelevant because he's still at a French club increasing his chances to play for a bigger team.

Seriously though just stop talking. You're making a tit of yourself. Talking about players you've never seen in your life and basing them off stats. Showing a complete lack of knowledge as usual. Just stick to playing your forum games that no one cares about. Only thing you're good for.

[Cure]

53 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Judgement > Stats

You're fucking delusional.

Judgement is a matter of opinion. Stats provide a basis for opinions to be drawn from, therefore the latter is more reliable from an outside perspective. Judgement would be saying Messi is shit because you saw him play in a game where he failed to score whilst stats automatically state otherwise due to the number of goals he's scored.

6 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Seriously though just stop talking. You're making a tit of yourself. Talking about players you've never seen in your life and basing them off stats. Showing a complete lack of knowledge as usual. Just stick to playing your forum games that no one cares about. Only thing you're good for.

I've never rolled my eyes at a post on here.

[Guest]

Just now, Cure said:

Judgement is a matter of opinion. Stats provide a basis for opinions to be drawn from, therefore the latter is more reliable from an outside perspective. Judgement would be saying Messi is shit because you saw him play in a game where he failed to score whilst stats automatically state otherwise due to the number of goals he's scored.

I've never rolled my eyes at a post on here. Until now. @Teso Dos Bichos would be proud.

So if we're going by stats, then Dani Guiza was the best striker in La Liga a few years ago.

"A basis of opinions to be drawn from" sounds like a contradiction. You're saying it provides a basis and are negating his capabilities without ever even seeing him. So you're not providing a basis, you're guessing. Its blatantly obvious. Me and many other pundits have seen him for ages now. There's a reason why we think he's a top striker.

What stats can tell you about his strength, speed, heading or hold up play?

"but, but, he doesn't score that many"

Fucking spastic

[Cure]

2 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

So if we're going by stats, then Dani Guiza was the best striker in La Liga a few years ago.

Based on his goal tally yes he was. Add other factors into the mix and possibly not. Nonetheless to be top scorer in La Liga with a club like Mallorca takes a lot.

2 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

"Stats provide a basis for opinions to be drawn from" sounds like a contradiction. You're saying it provides a basis and are negating his capabilities without ever even seeing him. So you're not providing a basis, you're guessing. Its blatantly obvious. Me and many other pundits have seen him for ages now. There's a reason why we think he's a top striker.

Guessing and providing a basis for something are two completely different things. If I were to guess anything could be drawn in. Also quote it in full... stats do provide a basis for opinion in everything: if you were to tell me Club Olimpia in Paraguay had won forty titles I'd say 'shit they've done well for themselves'. That's not just an opinions but it's based on stats. It's also a fact and to ignore something like that is just arrogant. Of course that was just an example.

2 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

What stats can tell you about his strength, speed, heading or hold up play?

"but, but, he doesn't score that many"

If you read around enough you'll find out. You can learn a lot by observing all of the evidence and resources you have around you in any situation.

2 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Fucking spastic

Call me that one more time. I don't care what the context is.

[Guest]

Just now, Cure said:

Based on his goal tally yes he was. Add other factors into the mix and possibly not. Nonetheless to be top scorer in La Liga with a club like Mallorca takes a lot.

 

So Guiza was better than Forlan, Aguero, Van Nistelrooy, Raul and Eto'o? 

Just now, Cure said:

Guessing and providing a basis for something are two completely different things. If I were to guess anything could be drawn in. Also quote it in full... stats do provide a basis for opinion in everything: if you were to tell me Club Olimpia in Paraguay had won forty titles I'd say 'shit they've done well for themselves'. That's not just an opinions but it's based on stats. It's also a fact and to ignore something like that is just arrogant. Of course that was just an example.

Those are 2 completely different situations. You compare a player to a player not a player to a club. That's just daft.

1 minute ago, Cure said:

If you read around enough you'll find out. You can learn a lot by observing all of the evidence and resources you have around you in any situation.

Yeah, you'll find out. If you read about Paolo Guerrero most pundits will tell you he's world class. I'm telling you that he's not but that he's a top striker.

1 minute ago, Cure said:

Call me that one more time. I don't care what the context is.