Burning Gold

Surely if you're Istanbul you don't even want it? They deferred it last year and I can't imagine they'd reject the chance to do again this year. Even if they have fans in the stadium, it won't be full capacity and you won't have the mass of people travelling without tickets just to be in the city and go to the bars, restaurants, etc.. If vaccine rollouts continue successfully in Europe it'll be immeasurably better for them to have it next year. I just don't understand the logic behind not moving it

Well that was a fun 48 hours wasn't it? Not sure where we go from here. Project Big Picture was largely forgotten about, but I think a few too many bridges have been burnt here. Can't speak for other clubs, but I certainly think for Liverpool fans the owners have lost a lot of goodwill. I don't think we've seen the last of this either. This was an incredibly naive attempt without even an attempt at PR, which would've carried them a long way. They won't be so stupid next time

Something's got to give here. The domestic leagues can't have these teams playing in them making vastly more money than everyone else (although that's never been a problem before), making a mockery of the league table as it pertains to European qualification, and just generally not giving a shit when it becomes clear they won't win it after 10 games and they have bigger fish to fry. On the other side, the SL clubs can't not play domestically, both for immediate financial reasons and because of their need to routinely beat lesser teams to satisfy the fans, legacy or otherwise. In fact, I think JP Morgan's loan is conditional on the clubs being able to play domestically, so they can't get off the ground without that. I also don't think the leagues really want to go ahead without their biggest clubs. I know all the fans are saying they'd happily crack on without the "big six", but the leagues make that decision and they don't really care what the fans think either. Bin it off is the best solution (and fuck the Champions League changes while we're at it), but they're in too deep. They've all made announcements, they have a website, they've resigned from various bodies, the publicly traded clubs have all sorts of obligations from that perspective. They can't go back. If I had to guess, the SL clubs make some concessions somewhere, maybe expanding the field and allowing a few more teams to qualify, maybe just giving more money to various governing bodies. Fuck knows, but it literally can't go ahead as proposed or as things stand, but it feels like it can't not go ahead either.

The ESL is where the elite players will play. You don't like it and I don't like it, but we can't pretend that the general football universe will attach more meaning to a weaker competition just because it feels nicer.

Do you think that will have any meaning with the footballing elite elsewhere? It'll be the same competitions he dreamt about winning (with Arsenal) as a kid, but they'll be totally different

Kane was an Arsenal fan as a kid, so I'm not sure what he used to dream of is particularly important to him this days. Seriously, I'm not in favour of this new league by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's incredibly naive to think any significant number of players would pass up this opportunity just to play the odd game for their country

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that Jose Mourinho, the most cynical man alive, has taken any kind of principled stand. He's definitely working an angle

Reckon Pochettino will come back because PSG aren't in the Super League? Wild

Right after qualifying for the European Super League. Game's gone

Is this the hypothetical in which they join, or in which it goes ahead but they don't?

He'd be having an absolute field day in here

I'm really interested in the players takes on this. Some people think being barred from World Cups is enough to make them think twice about joining this... I'm not so sure. If the money and the elite-level competition is in the Super League, how many of them have enough pride in their country to turn that down? There's joy in winning it all in these, but for me (Packers fan) there's absolutely no joy in doing really well but not winning. Last season was by far the least interested I've been because I knew we'd make the playoffs, but I knew we didn't have the quality to go all the way. So what's the point. In our football there are (were) targets at every level. Winning the league, CL qualification, EL qualification. Lots of teams finish the season on a high because of what they've achieved. In American sports, you either finish by missing the playoffs, or you finish by getting knocked out; both shit. Only one team gets to be happy

The success of this Super League rests on whether or not they're allowed to keep playing domestically. If they are, they'll keep winning things, keep attracting the money, the talent, the supporters. It'll be a more elitist version of the Champions League. Disgusting, but life will probably go on. The Premier League and the rest of the football pyramid will be poorer for it, but life will probably go on. If not, you're right. We're looking at clubs used to dominating, all of a sudden losing more often than not. I don't think they can sustain that. This is pretty shocking stuff. I can't promise I won't watch it (I can't not be interested in elite-level football) but I've lost a lot of passion for it all. This cripples football as we know it almost immediately. What does it mean for this season? We're gearing up for an exciting top 4 battle to finish off, with 4 teams trying to squeeze into 2 spots, but that's all meaningless now. Every season now for Liverpool it's win the league or don't bother playing. Even as a supporter of one of the 12, this is shit. I can't imagine what it's like for a team like Leicester or Atalanta, who both sit in third, but now find themselves closed off from the top level of football.

Oh they literally called it The Super League? Hope they get sued by rugby league's version

The proposal is that teams would still compete domestically alongside this league. The respective football associations have come out and said they'd be banned from domestic competition, but I assume those clubs are hoping the football associations will back down. We'll see. I don't think it'll come to this, but having a couple of years of no domestic football for those teams while we wait for someone to blink would be bonkers. I do agree about the last bit. There are two groups in the competition and you play home and away, so teams would face each other an average of once a year (50% chance of getting them in your group * 2 games) in the group stages alone. It'll get a bit stale. The thing is, though... it might make it a bit less special, but it doesn't make anyone less money. Less interest will barely precipitate into less viewers, and even if it does, the number of games will more than make up for it