RandoEFC

This was the main one, there are others as well. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1205510937995812864?s=19

Yeah, in a way it doesn't matter as neither Corbyn nor impending Brexit will be a factor at the next one. I long for a proportional system anyway. Green > Labour.

I'm still trying to fathom which of those was the dominant factor. If you look at the votes, a lot more people left Labour for Brexit Party than Conservative, so that suggests Brexit, but the interviews, phone ins and polls suggest a lot of Leave voters would still have voted Labour but didn't feel that they could because of Corbyn.

I know it wont make a lot of us happy to admit it but it wasn't just Brexit that led to this result. Most of the Labour > Conservative swingers in the North and Midlands have cited Corbyn as the reason for doing so, not the fact that they voted Leave. For what it's worth, the policies weren't a massive issue for those who abandoned Labour from the opinion polls that have been run. The manifesto still has some legs if they get a less extreme leader. I think whoever takes over needs to make a big deal of rooting out all of the anti-semitism issues before going on the offence again. Now, this map was interesting to me. I knew there was a major age divide when it came to our electorate but look at this: I would have said Labour dominate the under 25s but not to the extent that the Tories wouldn't win a single seat. It's also not what I expected to see that the real difference comes post-50. I'd have said that cutoff was at about 40, below if anything.

I'll try to bear that in mind in future.

Yeah, my point is, I think your last line is pretty optimistic based on what we've seen since 2016. Some of them will yeah but not enough. And even if they do, how many more previous Leavers will have been convinced by the Daily Mail that the only reason Brexit isn't a romping success is because Corbyn has been smuggling Marxist anti-semitic Muslim tarantulas into the country causing a recession and increased taxes? I think things are going to have to get really extremely bad for an extended amount of time before we see the tide turn. After a result like last night, it usually takes the next election for a battered party just to scrape back the seats that they should never have lost, and then the election after that they can start to go on the attack and think about winning. Things have changed in our system in recent years though so maybe that won't be the case this time.

I think you're underestimating how much the "I told you so" dynamic has taken over the whole Brexit conundrum. When was the last time you heard someone actually try and convince us that Brexit was a good idea? They don't even bother trying now, the Conservative message was literally, let's get Brexit out of the way, it's become an inconvenience. They aren't bothering to even pretend that it's going to help the country anymore because they know that many of the people who have committed to Leave care more about 'winning' than what they've actually won. The Remain campaign did a shit job in the referendum but they've done an even worse job since. The Leave demographic are so much more passionate about their cause than Remainers (on average). There has been minimal push to convince people that Remaining is a better idea and very little effort to keep stopping Brexit as the top priority for Remain voters, which means a lot more Remainers have fallen into a Brexit-neutral category than Leavers when it comes to Election Day. If there had been massive campaigning to remind everyone on a daily basis how much Remain should mean to them, a real counter-strategy to "Get Brexit Done", then maybe it would have been a bit closer.

The thing is, they'll just argue that you won't see the benefits for years, which would probably be true if there were going to be any benefits. I don't know if it's just how people are, but we've been a very bitter country as long as I've been old enough to notice. Maybe it truly does stem from the fact that Britain really is just a middle of the road alright Western country at the end of the day. We have a great history but right now nothing makes us any more significant than most other developed countries if we're being honest. Everyone is moaning or blaming someone else for something. Nobody is ever happy in this country. If there were no immigrants or Muslims to blame then people would just focus more on lefties vs fascists or the North South divide or Scotland or rich white people or poor white people or gays or Protestants vs Catholics. People have been finding excuses to fight and argue and hate each other for generations. Brexit is just the latest symptom, not the cause.

Swinson steps down, no shocks there. The Lib Dems reckon that the Brexit Party pulling out of Conservative seats pole-axed them but there's a lot more to it than that. It's been a dismal campaign for them. The revoke policy got them a short term kick in the opinion polls from Remainers desperate for Labour to go full Remain, but the same old story of people voting Labour as they're the only governing alternative to the Conservatives which the Liberal Democrats probably won't ever be under this system bit them in the arse. I also think they will continue to suffer from the coalition for decades. It's not just people who feel betrayed by the broken promises of Clegg's Lib Dems, anyone who remembers that will remember that whenever you think one of the minor parties could have a genuine say as part of a coalition, you're kidding yourself under most circumstances. A lot of people are hailing the fact that Swinson has lost her seat. I didn't like her but I feel a bit sorry for her to be honest. I thought she had potential. They made a mistake by fielding her in basically every TV debate and interview when the whole presidential approach clearly wasn't doing them any favours. They have a lot of other decent talent they could have put on show.

Well I don't think that's true. Part of what he says on here is a reaction to people calling him names first. I don't know whether the chicken or the egg came first but any name calling by anyone isn't helpful now. I'm not defending some of the things he's said in this thread, I've challenged them myself, but challenge his words if you disagree with them rather than challenging him as an overall person if you get what I'm saying.

I don't think that's true. Fairy has taken his fair share of shite from people over the years calling him a racist based on a few daft comments but mainly because he voted Brexit and Conservative. The Conservatives are in now. We're all in this together whichever way we voted. It's been heartbreaking seeing how people have been divided over the past few years, you hear stories about people falling out with their relatives over voting different ways over Brexit. The Conservatives are in charge for the next few years and they're taking us out of the EU. Now is the time to stop calling each other twats and racists and lefty bastards and try to muddle through as a functioning society somehow.

I'm sure you don't live that sad of a life that this is what you're most pleased about. Hopefully you voted based on your own morals and the belief that this will be better for the country rather than the prospect of enjoying "those salty Lefty/Remainer tears" and that this is just a reaction to the people who have called you names in the past. Again, you strike me as someone who actually loves the country being divided and other people being upset but then again you did say you didn't care about the NHS a few pages ago as long as you can afford private healthcare. Let's see how Brexit goes before deciding who was "way off". None of this changes the fact that even the government's own projections show that Brexit is going to make the country worse in the short term, that even Rees-Mogg said it could take 50-100 years to see an improvement and that just about every Economics professor in the country thinks it's a bad idea which is ironic because the Conservative Party's main attack line against Labour is that they'll ruin the economy. Just because a lot of people voted for something doesn't mean it'll be a good thing. People voted for Hitler and the Nazis once too. The 'lefties' might be crying today but if you're going to include me under that umbrella then I'd rather give you the satisfaction of other people being upset about a life that they haven't voted for being inflicted upon them by other people and go on to live my life with some compassion than sit on my opinions. The side you voted for won fair and square so go and celebrate with like-minded folks rather than rubbing it in the faces of people who are gutted because they genuinely believe (and at this point it doesn't matter who is right or wrong) that their lives and their friends', family's and children's lives are about to get worse for the next 5 years. This wasn't a football match, it's people's lives.

Brexit was a bigger issue here than Corbyn but he still had to step down after that performance. It's all uphill for Labour from here. There are other parties too.

Most people are the same, but who do you want them to believe in this day and age? People who know about things like economics and trade deals and policy were very clear that Brexit was bad, some politicians shouted louder than them and got more column inches and screen time, realised how much disinformation they can get away with and ran with it. That stat about 88% of Tory Facebook ads being untruthful compared to 0% of Labour's goes to show that one team is playing a different game here. Actual senior Conservatives said last week that a Tory aide was assaulted after Labour paid for 100 protesters to go and heckle Hancock outside a hospital and there is no electoral impact on them when it's proven to be an outrageous lie.

Eventually yes. It's happened before. If you're convinced like me that Brexit and this government is going to be as bad as you and I expect for so many people, then they'll dig themselves into a deep hole. People will eventually get angry enough that they'll finally believe everything they've been denying from Vote Leave breaking the law to Get Brexit Done being nothing more than a catchy slogan. Or maybe it'll actually be fine.

I think this is true. Most of people's issues with Corbyn seem to about things he did in the 80s, not since 2017, it's a smear campaign without a doubt. I've just seen a graphic on Twitter about what people's main worries about Corbyn were. Labour Remain voters had very little issue with Corbyn. Labour Leave voters cited Corbyn as a major issue, so Brexit is still a dividing line if you go off that. It's either that they didn't accept his woolly position on Brexit (which I personally believe was reasonable) or that they have used that as an excuse to not say they're putting Brexit over their Labour loyalty. I'd say it's mostly Brexit but a bit Corbyn that has fucked Labour. He's been the leader in the last two elections and he ultimately carries the responsibility. Labour need to retreat to the centre and get ready to pick up the voters if and when they don't enjoy the hardline Tory Brexit that's likely to be round the corner, or when they find out how much they've been lied to.

The one thing I cant help but be more depressed about is the fact that people wont vote Green because they'll never win but Brexit is a big enough issue to make a protest vote. Climate change apparently not.

I have to try and look at this rationally and or academically. If I look at it through an emotional lens I'll be depressed for the next 5 years.

Swinson is irrelevant and has been since Labour backed a second referendum. Labour have really messed this up, more scared of the Lib Dems taking their Remain voters and just expecting the Northern Leave seats to vote for them anyway. The Brexit party has made the difference up there, you can see it already in the results in the North East. The Tories are gaining some votes but only about a quarter of the ones Labour are losing. The rest are going to the Brexit Party. The psychology is fascinating in a way because those that left Labour for Brexit Party dont mind the Tories taking the seat as long as they didn't personally vote for them even though they caused it by voting for BP. Look at the positives, even if it's hard. 1) If you're convinced this is going to a disaster then there can be no ambiguity over where the blame lies and who pays the price at the next election when the Conservatives have such a commanding majority. 2) This disaster for Labour means they must have an absolute overhaul and try to find themselves an electable leader with less baggage. Corbyn was a risk and it hasn't paid off. It is confusing that he was such an asset electorally speaking in 2017 but a big problem now. 3) Farage is on to win no seats.

Just got to let it play out mate. The Conservatives are going to win a majority and Brexit is coming, you'll have a better time giving it a chance and hoping it turns out better than you think than trying to get the toothpaste back into the tube.

Tory gain in Blyth Valley. There go the final shreds of denial folks. That all nighter is out the window.

Would Labour have done any better if they went full Leave or full Remain though? Unfortunately, this looks like the end of Corbyn. At least it gives Labour the opportunity to return to the centre ground again, which the Conservatives have vacated.

Anyone heard of any good homes for sale anywhere in the world apart from the UK? . It's not over until the fat Boris sings.

Is anyone staying up? I've done a day in school on an all nighter before and two of my four lessons are kids doing tests tomorrow, so I'm very tempted.

Give me that sweet, sweet glimmer of false hope so I can hold on tight until the moment you pry it from my cold, dead hands.