TomTsportresearcher Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 The previous 2-3 seasons has witnessed a growing discontent over the increasing commercialization and commodification of the Bundesliga. Examples include; - The promotion and rejection of Monday night football - Stadium bans for pyrotechnics - Increase in ticket prices - Discontent towards the national team - A dying relationship between supporter and the DFB Obviously, the Bundesliga is still some way off from becoming overly commercialized like the EPL, nevertheless the powers that be have been attempting to make changes to the game for better or worse in recent times. How you feel about the commercialization and commodification of the Bundesliga? i.e. what concerns you the most or what forms of commercialization and commodification do you accept and why? In advance I really do appreciate any responses. Thanks. Tom T
nudge Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 Hate everything about it. Stuff like banning pyrotechnics is understandable at least as you always tend to get some idiots throwing it on the pitch or into the crowd. Everything else is ridiculous. In essence hate it all being just about the money and viewing the fan solely as a customer. Rising cost of everything including tickets, beer and snacks in the stadium, fan merchandise. The absolutely ridiculous transfer fees and agent payments. Forced entertainment and cringy media circus. Matches being broadcast on three different pay channels requiring three subscriptions. Football becoming a sterile entertainment biz and alienating itself from local match-going fans.
Moderator Tommy Posted August 6, 2019 Moderator Posted August 6, 2019 45 minutes ago, nudge said: Hate everything about it. Stuff like banning pyrotechnics is understandable at least as you always tend to get some idiots throwing it on the pitch or into the crowd. Everything else is ridiculous. In essence hate it all being just about the money and viewing the fan solely as a customer. Rising cost of everything including tickets, beer and snacks in the stadium, fan merchandise. The absolutely ridiculous transfer fees and agent payments. Forced entertainment and cringy media circus. Matches being broadcast on three different pay channels requiring three subscriptions. Football becoming a sterile entertainment biz and alienating itself from local match-going fans. Exactly what I wanted to say, but I let the smart people do my writing for me
TomTsportresearcher Posted August 14, 2019 Author Posted August 14, 2019 How have I only just noticed these responses?! Good to see the notifications working well for me . I agree with pyrotechnics it certainly can be dangerous and 'scary' for younger supporters in my opinion. It sounds like you both object to any form of commodification and commercialization, would you say sponsors, owners and/ or corporations are exploiting local supporters? It's interesting because while I agree with pretty much most of the things you have said, I enjoy certain commerce activities i.e. purchasing a new shirt and even collecting match day programes (I sadly own over 100 Villa programes haha). I do feel as though I have some power and I can stop entertaining certain commercial activities that benefits sponsors and owners. Do you think supporters and/ or local communities are powerless to sponsors and corporations?
nudge Posted August 14, 2019 Posted August 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, TomTsportresearcher said: How have I only just noticed these responses?! Good to see the notifications working well for me . I agree with pyrotechnics it certainly can be dangerous and 'scary' for younger supporters in my opinion. It sounds like you both object to any form of commodification and commercialization, would you say sponsors, owners and/ or corporations are exploiting local supporters? It's interesting because while I agree with pretty much most of the things you have said, I enjoy certain commerce activities i.e. purchasing a new shirt and even collecting match day programes (I sadly own over 100 Villa programes haha). I do feel as though I have some power and I can stop entertaining certain commercial activities that benefits sponsors and owners. Do you think supporters and/ or local communities are powerless to sponsors and corporations? I don't care that much about sponsors; they just get exposure in exchange for money and are a decent source of income. It's quite a bit stupid to see a Chinese betting service being advertised on the sleeves of a German football club but that's capitalism and globalisation for you I guess; regardless of how weird it is it doesn't affect local supporters that much I'd say. As long as sponsors stay away from getting involved in running the club, I think the majority of fans accepts them as a necessity in modern professional sports; it's a bit shite but there's no alternative for most clubs these days anyway. Now owners, investors and corporations are a different thing for me; simply because a private entity running a club and putting their money in it is always going to see it as a business instead of what our understanding of a fan-owned club with social responsibilities is. Especially if that entity is a foreign investor or a global corporation with no ties to the region/city altogether. As for stuff like purchasing shirts or other merchandise, I don't see it as a problem itself - after all, normally it is one of the ways for the fans to support their club financially. However, that only applies if it stays affordable for the majority of the fans from all social backgrounds and I doubt it's the case now with a single shirt costing somewhere around 80-100€. I don't care much myself as I've never been into buying merchandise anyway but I always feel for families with young kids who crave for stuff like that and the parents have to spend that amount of money for a shirt each season for each kid. Sure, nobody forces you to buy it, but prices like that aren't particularly fan- and especially family-friendly... Same applies to ticket prices, as well as food and beer at the stands, TV subscriptions. Each factor on each own might seem like nothing, but combined all together it definitely makes it look like milking the fans for more and more money each season. Supporters and local communities aren't completely powerless - they can always stop buying stuff, stop attending matches, stop spending money on TV subscriptions. The problem is that needs a lot of organisation to make it work on a large-scale and people aren't exactly great at that - that's why keeping the 50+1 rule is so important in my opinion. Things like boycotting Monday matches worked though; so it shows that the fans still have a voice and power to influence things if there's enough unity in voicing their dissatisfaction; both in form of protests and discussions during the annual member meeting. I'm afraid it only applies to minor things like that as the whole sport (as seen globally) has gone way too far in terms of commercialisation in the last two decades or so to simply stop it and "go back to the roots". I do hope that the bubble will burst one day though; can't see a business model with exponentially growing expenditures being sustainable in a long run.
Chadwell Posted August 14, 2019 Posted August 14, 2019 Totally agreed on maintaining the 50+1 rule. Although I personally am a believer in capitalism, I reason that its reach into sports needs to have some limits. The problem in England is that with complete corporate ownership, they can choose an exact demographic to target and thrive off. What was once a working man's game was aggressively pushed into the middle class once those workers grew up and made livings, arm in arm with new sponsorships. With that base that has and continues to support them with sheer ticket and shirt sales (in London in particular, where attendance at games is majority made up of middle-aged men wearing official shirts and decked out in other merch), they've then launched into America and Asia with their burgeoning middle and upper classes. There is just little to no care anymore for the traditional working class supporter. It's not even really that it's necessarily evil, it's what these clubs must do to remain competitive in an incredibly competitive and lucrative league. With the 50+1 rule, there will always be a wall preventing this takeover from entirely happening. Either every club resists, or every club yields. The clubs in England that don't charge absurd ticket sales, shirt prices, and food/drink prices will get swallowed up in the race for those fat TV checks. So while I have upmost respect for capitalism, in this space it's tread far enough IMO.
TomTsportresearcher Posted August 15, 2019 Author Posted August 15, 2019 Sponsors have certainly become a necessity for clubs, my only issue is that clubs are reliant upon sponsors and then are in a position of dependency where the sponsors call all of the shots i.e. Chinese sponsors require clubs to sign a Chinese player or have pre-season in China, that’s potentially an issue already occurring today. I think sponsorship, private owners, corporations, TV deals and merchandise has helped place football as primarily a business these days which is shame. I agree a day out at the football cost’s me in excess of £45 for a student ticket, a pint and a burger. For families attending a game it would cost in excess of £180 at least. It all adds up when you take into consideration TV subscriptions, travel and merch. When I was in Korea a K-league fixture cost 10,000won/ £6-7, noodles and a pint together were an extra 4,000won £1.80/£2 and that’s how it should be for everyone, I admit the demand in Korea is not on the same level as the European leagues thus, they can’t expect to over-charge, but still £9-10 for a day at the football is how it should be, cheap and affordable for all. I think the Bundesliga is a good example of fan activism, they mobilize together as a whole, are organized and get their opinion across. Premier League fans are seemingly happy to be exploited or are just happy to be priced out of the game. While fans have mobilized it has been restricted to single club fan groups rather than a whole unit which has a limited effect overall.
TomTsportresearcher Posted August 15, 2019 Author Posted August 15, 2019 On 14/08/2019 at 19:49, Chadwell said: Totally agreed on maintaining the 50+1 rule. Although I personally am a believer in capitalism, I reason that its reach into sports needs to have some limits. The problem in England is that with complete corporate ownership, they can choose an exact demographic to target and thrive off. What was once a working man's game was aggressively pushed into the middle class once those workers grew up and made livings, arm in arm with new sponsorships. With that base that has and continues to support them with sheer ticket and shirt sales (in London in particular, where attendance at games is majority made up of middle-aged men wearing official shirts and decked out in other merch), they've then launched into America and Asia with their burgeoning middle and upper classes. There is just little to no care anymore for the traditional working class supporter. It's not even really that it's necessarily evil, it's what these clubs must do to remain competitive in an incredibly competitive and lucrative league. With the 50+1 rule, there will always be a wall preventing this takeover from entirely happening. Either every club resists, or every club yields. The clubs in England that don't charge absurd ticket sales, shirt prices, and food/drink prices will get swallowed up in the race for those fat TV checks. So while I have upmost respect for capitalism, in this space it's tread far enough IMO. It’s interesting that you are a fan of capitalism, I myself do not believe in the logic although I admit I don’t think capitalism will be defeated in my lifetime, as they say capitalism can change and adapt even after disaster (2008 recession). It is as you call it a ‘necessary evil’, I don’t think clubs are even interested in attracting genuine supporters anymore, they are just concerned with attracting a global audience. If you look at Man City for example, while they do sell out the Etihad it doesn’t happen week in week out largely reflecting how small the local fan base actually is. A club like that doesn’t care though, because they rely on attracting global audiences to buy merch, club tv packages and for promotion etc..
Chadwell Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 10 hours ago, TomTsportresearcher said: It’s interesting that you are a fan of capitalism, I myself do not believe in the logic although I admit I don’t think capitalism will be defeated in my lifetime, as they say capitalism can change and adapt even after disaster (2008 recession). It is as you call it a ‘necessary evil’, I don’t think clubs are even interested in attracting genuine supporters anymore, they are just concerned with attracting a global audience. If you look at Man City for example, while they do sell out the Etihad it doesn’t happen week in week out largely reflecting how small the local fan base actually is. A club like that doesn’t care though, because they rely on attracting global audiences to buy merch, club tv packages and for promotion etc.. Capitalism gets a bad rap because we naturally despise the supremely rich, and it’s very seductive to listen to politicians who preach about how greedy those people are and how we should disburse some of their money. The reality however, is that no system provides class mobility like capitalism. No system rewards a more fair exchange of goods per transaction. No system rewards contribution towards advancement of a society like capitalism. So while it’s easy to give into our natural urge to resent those far wealthier than us, don’t allow that to occlude many benefits. Capitalism isn’t something to be destroyed IMO, but rather some of the alternatives which were tried multiple times in the last two centuries to spectacular failure, and were only ever used to establish a new elite class anyway which then removed the socioeconomic ladder towards them upon taking that power. Hate the greed and corporate power, but don’t hate human nature, and especially don’t hate the fair and good transactions which happen far more regularly between people simply taking advantage of a free market to pursue better lives for themselves and their families.
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