World Cup Qualifiers (CONMEBOL) October 5th and October 10th

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I wonder if Vidal will return to international football after Peru and Columbia are thrown out for match fixing?

He never retired though haha

I can't see us being thrown out. Its not even big news over here. I'm not worried, I think at worst Falcao, Tapia and Corzo might be suspended a few games. 

Chile were never going to win in Brazil, that's not anyones fault but theirs. If Chile wanted to qualify, they needed at least a draw. With that they would've been in. They didn't, its their fault. They have no right to complain. Besides they did the same thing in the 2010 WC and in 2013 to qualify for the 2014 World Cup. 

They are the most dislikeable team on earth.

[Smiley Culture]

3 hours ago, Blue said:

And explain to me how we were match fixing if a draw would have knocked both peru and colombia out should Chile and Paraguay both have won?

Players going round the opposition and passing on messages that then weirdly change the style both teams play with, even if that is to play for a draw, is still match fixing. 

 

[Guest]

Just now, Smiley Culture said:

Players going round the opposition and passing on messages that then weirdly change the style both teams play with, even if that is to play for a draw, is still match fixing. 

 

Its not match fixing, it seems you are failing to understand the difference between match fixing and playing for a draw.

Did Peru or Colombia offer money to each other to end in a draw pre-match? That is illegal in the sport. Passing on messages and passing back and forth isn't.

Again, worst case scenario those players will be suspended, but who's fault is it that the match ended like that? Chile and Paraguay have no place to complain as neither of them won their matches. Had just 1 won their match, they would be in 5th and not Peru.

Besides, if we fixed a draw, why would it end 1-1 instead of 0-0!???

[Smiley Culture]

Just now, Blue said:

Its not match fixing, it seems you are failing to understand the difference between match fixing and playing for a draw.

Did Peru or Colombia offer money to each other to end in a draw pre-match? That is illegal in the sport. Passing on messages and passing back and forth isn't.

Again, worst case scenario those players will be suspended, but who's fault is it that the match ended like that? Chile and Paraguay have no place to complain as neither of them won their matches. Had just 1 won their match, they would be in 5th and not Peru.

Besides, if we fixed a draw, why would it end 1-1 instead of 0-0!???

It's match fixing. You can match fix a game so that it ends a draw, match fixing isn't alone to games where there is a winner. 

Match fixing doesn't have to involve cash, either. Though there is a financial gain for the Columbians and Peruvians for appearing at a World Cup. 

Chile and Paraguay were playing games at the same time, weren't they? That's a more than valid reason as to why the outcome of the game ended 1-1 rather than 0-0. 

 

[Guest]

Just saw this on Youtube - A song by Pelo D'Ambrosio talking about returning to the World Cup. The video mixed with Peru's goals in the qualifiers.

We are only 2 matches away! I still can't believe we finished 5th.

[Guest]

Just now, Smiley Culture said:

It's match fixing. You can match fix a game so that it ends a draw, match fixing isn't alone to games where there is a winner. 

Match fixing doesn't have to involve cash, either. Though there is a financial gain for the Columbians and Peruvians for appearing at a World Cup. 

Chile and Paraguay were playing games at the same time, weren't they? That's a more than valid reason as to why the outcome of the game ended 1-1 rather than 0-0. 

 

So why is it illegal? Why would they have to take action? Chile and Paraguay didn't win. Thats not our fault. If it ended 1-1, that means both teams were playing to win. Once both teams were in the top 5, its totally normal to do what Peru and Colombia did.

Austria and Germany did it completely clear in 1982, they didn't get punished. Simply they just changed the rules. If it doesn't involve cash, its not illegal.

[Smiley Culture]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

So why is it illegal? Why would they have to take action? Chile and Paraguay didn't win. Thats not our fault. If it ended 1-1, that means both teams were playing to win. Once both teams were in the top 5, its totally normal to do what Peru and Colombia did.

Austria and Germany did it completely clear in 1982, they didn't get punished. Simply they just changed the rules. If it doesn't involve cash, its not illegal.

Because it is against the laws of the game to fix the outcome of a match, regardless of results elsewhere. 

Illegal? Perhaps not a criminal offence but that doesn't mean it's not match fixing.

[Guest]

Just now, Smiley Culture said:

Because it is against the laws of the game to fix the outcome of a match, regardless of results elsewhere. 

Illegal? Perhaps not a criminal offence but that doesn't mean it's not match fixing.

No action should be taken then. Its not illegal. And you're actually very wrong about that, its done on every last day of the season where something needs to be played for. Its completely normal in the game. It can be seen as cheating and I can accept that but again its not illegal.

Its like scoring a handball goal. You shouldn't be doing it and it will likely get ruled out. If the ref gives the goal and fails to see it, then its cheating but you won't get punished for it after the game.

Chile actually did it themselves so I don't know why they are complaining. 

[Smiley Culture]

26 minutes ago, Blue said:

No action should be taken then. Its not illegal. And you're actually very wrong about that, its done on every last day of the season where something needs to be played for. Its completely normal in the game. It can be seen as cheating and I can accept that but again its not illegal.

Its like scoring a handball goal. You shouldn't be doing it and it will likely get ruled out. If the ref gives the goal and fails to see it, then its cheating but you won't get punished for it after the game.

Chile actually did it themselves so I don't know why they are complaining. 

How am I wrong? Columbia and Peru players appeared to settle for a draw after communication went round from a few different sources, in order to ensure that they both qualified for the World Cup at the expense of others, whilst those sides were also playing. They fixed the outcome of that match. 

The end of season comparison is wrong, IMO. Those end of season games (most don't end draws anyway) don't have a huge effect on other games, say like two sides, whilst on the pitch, agreeing to draw a game to ensure both qualified for a major tournament. 

Money may not have changed hands but it doesn't mean it's not wrong, it's immoral, against the spirit of the gem and against the laws of the game. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

How am I wrong? Columbia and Peru players appeared to settle for a draw after communication went round from a few different sources, in order to ensure that they both qualified for the World Cup at the expense of others, whilst those sides were also playing. They fixed the outcome of that match. 

The end of season comparison is wrong, IMO. Those end of season games (most don't end draws anyway) don't have a huge effect on other games, say like two sides, whilst on the pitch, agreeing to draw a game to ensure both qualified for a major tournament. 

Money may not have changed hands but it doesn't mean it's not wrong, it's immoral, against the spirit of the gem and against the laws of the game. 

It may be wrong but "wrong" doesn't matter in football. There is no moral. If you can have moral and still win, then fair play. Chile have been completely immoral since 2010 and they won 2 Copa America's. They don't care, and they really shouldn't. 

[Smiley Culture]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

It may be wrong but "wrong" doesn't matter in football. There is no moral. If you can have moral and still win, then fair play. Chile have been completely immoral since 2010 and they won 2 Copa America's. They don't care, and they really shouldn't. 

What a load of nonsense. 

[Guest]

Just now, Smiley Culture said:

What a load of nonsense. 

Ok then, I guess Suarez would have let themselves lose against Ghana in 2010, Chile would have let Bolivia keep their points that were taken away, and Henry/Maradona would have told the referee that they scored with a hand, putting their teams at risk of losing when they took a lead 

[Dave]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Chile has presented a complaint to FIFA about Peru and Colombia match fixing.

Biggest sore losers in football. They didn't do their job, this is on them not us.

If it had been Peru missing out because of Ospina touched an indirect Sanchez free kick you'd be seething.

I can't see anything coming out of this complaint just because on the balance of probability David Ospina is stupid enough to try and save an indirect free kick.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Aaroncpfc said:

If it had been Peru missing out because of Ospina touched an indirect Sanchez free kick you'd be seething.

I can't see anything coming out of this complaint just because on the balance of probability David Ospina is stupid enough to try and save an indirect free kick.

I'd be pissed but I wouldn't complain about getting in by default. Chile didn't win their matches and that's why they are out. They even had help by TAS given points lost at home to Bolivia and they still couldn't qualify.

I've never heard of the indirect free kick rule before that match so I can only count us as a bit lucky.

[SirBalon]

Communicating from the bench an outcome is ilegal and very punishable. If that particular detail was to be proved then that’s actually against the law. 

[Smiley Culture]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Ok then, I guess Suarez would have let themselves lose against Ghana in 2010, Chile would have let Bolivia keep their points that were taken away, and Henry/Maradona would have told the referee that they scored with a hand, putting their teams at risk of losing when they took a lead 

That's not even the same thing at all. 

[Lucas]

5 hours ago, Blue said:

He never retired though haha

I can't see us being thrown out. Its not even big news over here. I'm not worried, I think at worst Falcao, Tapia and Corzo might be suspended a few games. 

Chile were never going to win in Brazil, that's not anyones fault but theirs. If Chile wanted to qualify, they needed at least a draw. With that they would've been in. They didn't, its their fault. They have no right to complain. Besides they did the same thing in the 2010 WC and in 2013 to qualify for the 2014 World Cup. 

They are the most dislikeable team on earth.

Have you heard of Millwall?

[Carnivore Chris]

On 11/10/2017 at 3:35 PM, Cicero said:

It's only Ecuador 

That's not really the point now is it?

Yeah, it's a bit unfair to say it's only Ecuador given that Argentina had only ever won once in Quito previously and that was over 14 year ago. They had also only scored 2 goals there in their last 5 games in the qualifiers, one being a penalty. Then you have the altitude, which has always been a killer for Argentina and other teams who aren't used to it. It's not like they have time to adapt to their environment before playing these games.

It was a massive, must win game to get them to the world cup against an opponent who had nothing to lose, but came out playing for pride and even went 1-0 up, which could have completely killed Argentina's confidence and led to them being ripped apart.

Messi has carried this side through. It's not just about Tuesday night, but he led them to victory in 2 very difficult ties against Colombia and Uruguay at the end of last year after he had missed games via injury and Argentina, during his absence, couldn't win a game.

 

On another note, Gabriel Jesus has been been quality in these qualifiers and with Neymar by his side they really give Brazilians hope of returning to the top of the chain. Let's not forget Paulinho, who is somewhat of an unsung hero for the Brazilians. He's been one of the players of this group and has done well. He seems to be a completely different player now to the one he was at Spurs and is especially effective in the Brazilian team. As for creativity and a man with an eye for a pass, this is where Coutinho comes into play. Also a warrior in the centre of the park in Casemiro and a defence which has a decent balance of younger players and more experienced ones with one last world cup in them. This Brazil team is far from some of great ones from the past, but they do have a competitive side again which will want to have a say in Russia.

[SirBalon]

6 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

On another note, Gabriel Jesus has been been quality in these qualifiers and with Neymar by his side they really give Brazilians hope of returning to the top of the chain. Let's not forget Paulinho, who is somewhat of an unsung hero for the Brazilians. He's been one of the players of this group and has done well. He seems to be a completely different player now to the one he was at Spurs and is especially effective in the Brazilian team. As for creativity and a man with an eye for a pass, this is where Coutinho comes into play. Also a warrior in the centre of the park in Casemiro and a defence which has a decent balance of younger players and more experienced ones with one last world cup in them. This Brazil team is far from some of great ones from the past, but they do have a competitive side again which will want to have a say in Russia.

Agree with this...  Brazil have come from a torrid time in what I would go back so far as to say it's been over 10 years.  They lost their identity and it all started back in the 90s when they chose to produce more physical players than what their "genetics' offer.  Even now they're very light in the midfielders they used to produce back in the day full of flamboyance and magic coupled with tactical knowhow and natural physical prowess.  The fix hasn't been made but they're definitely a lot more balanced than they have been for quite some time.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Agree with this...  Brazil have come from a torrid time in what I would go back so far as to say it's been over 10 years.  They lost their identity and it all started back in the 90s when they chose to produce more physical players than what their "genetics' offer.  Even now they're very light in the midfielders they used to produce back in the day full of flamboyance and magic coupled with tactical knowhow and natural physical prowess.  The fix hasn't been made but they're definitely a lot more balanced than they have been for quite some time.

Who are you? Gordon Strachan?

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Who are you? Gordon Strachan?