Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Blue said: I don't care about their league position. I'm talking about GRANDEUR as a neutral. Given Leverkusen and Schalke usually qualify for these tournaments and how highly and wrongly rated the Bundesliga is, I would expect better. They don't because besides Bayern, the league is bang average. There is good talent in there I'll admit but they never seem to click. it wasn't that long ago that BvB was in the CL Finals against Bayern. The Bundesliga suffers from the same disease that Ligue 1 has, which is a dominant team, with some really good ones, and then a lot of scrubs. It's still a top 3 league though in the world behind Spain and England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Eco said: it wasn't that long ago that BvB was in the CL Finals against Bayern. The Bundesliga suffers from the same disease that Ligue 1 has, which is a dominant team, with some really good ones, and then a lot of scrubs. It's still a top 3 league though in the world behind Spain and England. It's not better than Serie A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Blue said: It's not better than Serie A. Oh god, it's miles ahead of Serie A. MILES, and I watched almost every match, every week (not the past 2 weeks though). Juve is Juve. MIlan clubs are a dumpster fire. Roma isn't what they were last year. Napoli is good, but losing key players. And sadly, it'll get worse in Italy. Clubs are constantly struggling to keep the doors open (hell Serie B has 19 teams instead of the supposed to be 22.) Clubs (outside of Juve) don't own their stadiums so they are all going to shit, and they are some of the most racist, bigoted people in all of Western Europe, which will sooner or later mean that if you are a black player, you will certainly sign to play in Germany where living is better, stadiums are better, and you aren't called a money every other week with banana chants and other stupid shit being dealt your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Eco said: And sadly, it'll get worse in Italy. Clubs are constantly struggling to keep the doors open (hell Serie B has 19 teams instead of the supposed to be 22.) Clubs (outside of Juve) don't own their stadiums so they are all going to shit, and they are some of the most racist, bigoted people in all of Western Europe, which will sooner or later mean that if you are a black player, you will certainly sign to play in Germany where living is better, stadiums are better, and you aren't called a money every other week with banana chants and other stupid shit being dealt your way. This is the type of argument that pisses me off. "banana chants, not owning your own stadium" that means NOTHING if your standard is utter dross. I said this last week Lucas, but if you don't impress in Europe, your league purity and being well organized doesn't make the league any better. Standard does, and you cannot base which league is better by just watching it. Sometimes there can be some very good football played in the Peruvian league, and I never based what is played there. Only when they play in the Libertadores. Same here, you can't really only base the level of German teams unless they do well in Europe. Newsflash, most of the time they do not. 1 Europa League final in 15 years, and since the final that Dortmund reached, there have been 2 Italian finalists and 4 different semi finalists (in both Europa and Champions league). Meanwhile Germany is still waiting for another European semi-finalist outside of Bayern... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Even Rangers with Kirk Broadfoot, Steven Whittaker and Barry Ferguson in the starting 11 managed to reach as many Europa League finals in the last 15 years than the German teams. I know that doesn't say a lot, but fuck me. Kirk Broadfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Blue said: This is the type of argument that pisses me off. "banana chants, not owning your own stadium" that means NOTHING if your standard is utter dross. I said this last week Lucas, but if you don't impress in Europe, your league purity and being well organized doesn't make the league any better. Standard does, and you cannot base which league is better by just watching it. Sometimes there can be some very good football played in the Peruvian league, and I never based what is played there. Only when they play in the Libertadores. Same here, you can't really only base the level of German teams unless they do well in Europe. Newsflash, most of the time they do not. 1 Europa League final in 15 years, and since the final that Dortmund reached, there have been 2 Italian finalists and 4 different semi finalists (in both Europa and Champions league). Meanwhile Germany is still waiting for another European semi-finalist outside of Bayern... I'm not sure why it pisses you off, since it's an opinion. Italian clubs have done much better than I thought they should have (especially Roma last year), but I still think the German league is better than Serie A. Does it mean PSG and City are shit because they haven't even made a CL Final? Hell no. In fact, to base a league on such is crazy because it's a random draw so it's partly what has helped the Spanish teams is their draws and how they've been fortunate in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Blue said: Even Rangers with Kirk Broadfoot, Steven Whittaker and Barry Ferguson in the starting 11 managed to reach as many Europa League finals in the last 15 years than the German teams. I know that doesn't say a lot, but fuck me. Kirk Broadfoot The Europa is a dumb tournament. I love watching it as it's a international club competition, but really the idea behind it makes it pretty pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Eco said: I'm not sure why it pisses you off, since it's an opinion. Italian clubs have done much better than I thought they should have (especially Roma last year), but I still think the German league is better than Serie A. Does it mean PSG and City are shit because they haven't even made a CL Final? Hell no. In fact, to base a league on such is crazy because it's a random draw so it's partly what has helped the Spanish teams is their draws and how they've been fortunate in them. Your opinion is not what pisses me off. The whole attendance and "league organization" argument is what does. That sort of stuff is very important to a league being good and successful, but it's not the #1. That goes to standard, and Italian teams have been much more consistent in Europe than the Germans have. Even Roma have reached the semi's in the UCL and that win against Barcelona was certainly no fluke. City have also reached a semi-final, and that City team was much worse than the current one. Almost trash I would actually say. It was also during a time when the PL was struggling. Some German sides like Schalke and Leverkusen hardly put up a fight either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Eco said: The Europa is a dumb tournament. I love watching it as it's a international club competition, but really the idea behind it makes it pretty pointless. It is, but the fact is that it exists and does matter to an evaluation of a league. Both to us fans and officials. That said, Rangers reaching the final with Kirk fucking Broadfoot at the back really does make me question how seriously some teams take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Blue said: Your opinion is not what pisses me off. The whole attendance and "league organization" argument is what does. That sort of stuff is very important to a league being good and successful, but it's not the #1. That goes to standard, and Italian teams have been much more consistent in Europe than the Germans have. Even Roma have reached the semi's in the UCL and that win against Barcelona was certainly no fluke. City have also reached a semi-final, and that City team was much worse than the current one. Almost trash I would actually say. It was also during a time when the PL was struggling. Some German sides like Schalke and Leverkusen hardly put up a fight either. Ah - I just mean that the Italian league is eating itself alive. Inter are going to lose their 2-3 best players this summer and likely their manager. Milan are cash strapped, which will leave the Nazi loving Lazio fans, Roma (who aren't getting better), and Napoli to contend with Juve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Blue said: It is, but the fact is that it exists and does matter to an evaluation of a league. Both to us fans and officials. That said, Rangers reaching the final with Kirk fucking Broadfoot at the back really does make me question how seriously some teams take it. That's easy, teams take it very serious if one of the following two conditions are met: 1. They reach the Quarters 2. They play in a league that's 'over' in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Eco said: Ah - I just mean that the Italian league is eating itself alive. Inter are going to lose their 2-3 best players this summer and likely their manager. Milan are cash strapped, which will leave the Nazi loving Lazio fans, Roma (who aren't getting better), and Napoli to contend with Juve. A lot of people like to trash on the Italian league for it's reputation of being boring, one sided and poorly run, on the contrary to the Bundesliga which is fast, attacking and fun to watch. I can guarantee you though the standard in Italy is higher and my proof is consistency in Europe and better tactical minds. I wouldn't say its miles ahead (don't know if I said that last week) but it's certainly better if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Blue said: A lot of people like to trash on the Italian league for it's reputation of being boring, one sided and poorly run, on the contrary to the Bundesliga which is fast, attacking and fun to watch. I can guarantee you though the standard in Italy is higher and my proof is consistency in Europe and better tactical minds. I wouldn't say its miles ahead (don't know if I said that last week) but it's certainly better if you ask me. That's fair. Italian football is sad. There was once a day when you had players like Del Peiro, Zanetti, Ronaldo, Nedved, Gattuso, Maldini, Nesta, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Totti, Toni, and on and on, and it was the greatest league in the world. Now it has an aging CR, and a TON of babies who play for money and not for their clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Blue said: If they don't have good season consistency then that doesn't help the league look of a better standard Premier league is shit then because Man U and Chelsea are inconsistent. You're being a fuckwit mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted February 22, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted February 22, 2019 The logic that if you don't perform in Europe automatically means the league you're in is shit really does baffle me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relling Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 hours ago, Blue said: Anyone who follows the Bundesliga will know that the German league has been falling in standard compared to the other top leagues. Also in Germany this is pretty much accepted as truth. Last year was a low point with horrible results in Europe. This year has been a bit better, but that may in part be because of favourable draws for the group stages. More important for the followers of the league is that there is a title race for the first time for a very long time, there are quite a few teams playing enterprising and entertaining football (compared to previous years) and a goal average of over 3 goals per game. Fair play to Krasnodar. They looked a good side side over the two legs and not undeservedly stay in the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Relling said: Anyone who follows the Bundesliga will know that the German league has been falling in standard compared to the other top leagues. Also in Germany this is pretty much accepted as truth. Last year was a low point with horrible results in Europe. This year has been a bit better, but that may in part be because of favourable draws for the group stages. More important for the followers of the league is that there is a title race for the first time for a very long time, there are quite a few teams playing enterprising and entertaining football (compared to previous years) and a goal average of over 3 goals per game. Fair play to Krasnodar. They looked a good side side over the two legs and not undeservedly stay in the competition. Another fair post yet again from you. Accepting the truth yet defending the league at the same time. Props to you mate! I certainly don't think it's a Mickey Mouse league like the Arsenal fan is claiming (if I liked his post it was just because I initially agreed with it) I just don't see how it's better than Serie A. That's it really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 26 minutes ago, Blue said: Another fair post yet again from you. Accepting the truth yet defending the league at the same time. Props to you mate! I certainly don't think it's a Mickey Mouse league like the Arsenal fan is claiming (if I liked his post it was just because I initially agreed with it) I just don't see how it's better than Serie A. That's it really. You need to read, no where does he mention Serie A. He says, 'Top Leagues', which are certainly La Liga and EPL, but I wouldn't automatically assume he's including Serie A in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Eco said: You need to read, no where does he mention Serie A. He says, 'Top Leagues', which are certainly La Liga and EPL, but I wouldn't automatically assume he's including Serie A in that. Never said he mentioned Serie A, I was the one who mentioned it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Blue said: Never said he mentioned Serie A, I was the one who mentioned it Okay - from my reading you heavily insinuated such, or at least that's how I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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