Making Music

[Mel81x+]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think the player series is the old MIM “Standard” line. But they had quite a few models made in Mexico other than the MIM Standards. Even some of the signature guitars are made in Mexico now. But yeah the Player Series and a few other of their product lines are Hecho en Mexico - and I played some recently that I thought held their own compared to their more expensive American cousins.

In fact, that Charvel I loved was made in the Fender Ensenada factory!

Fender products are so diverse now and they are made in places like Mexico, Indonesia and I believe they are looking to start a Korean line too. I think you're getting great value from these guitars and most people who gig won't go out and get an American  Fender only to have it dinked or worse get some serious damage. I know a guy who does studio work with a Squier and trust me it can definitely hold up to some of the better Fenders too. The value they offer in their mid-line range is so good I always tell people you won't be disappointed anymore. Even their old and horrible Affinity series is actually quite nice these days.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Mel81x said:

Fender products are so diverse now and they are made in places like Mexico, Indonesia and I believe they are looking to start a Korean line too. I think you're getting great value from these guitars and most people who gig won't go out and get an American  Fender only to have it dinked or worse get some serious damage. I know a guy who does studio work with a Squier and trust me it can definitely hold up to some of the better Fenders too. The value they offer in their mid-line range is so good I always tell people you won't be disappointed anymore. Even their old and horrible Affinity series is actually quite nice these days.

Yeah I've heard if you get a Squier with the gold Squier logo (didn't you buy a Classic Vibe recently?)… they're pretty solid guitars. I got my dad one because his guitar had a terrible accident and the repairs were really expensive and I thought that was a bit shit that he didn't have a guitar. And he loves it. And his guitar was an old Japanese knockoff Fender that was REALLY nice (RIP to that guitar), and he says his Squier is just as good.

It's a good time to be a guitarist in terms of buying gear. Because there's a ton of stuff that isn't anywhere close to "top tier" in terms of price that can compete with more expensive gear. Maybe not the best time to be a guitarist if you want to be a Rockstar that makes a ton of money off their music though 

 

[Mel81x+]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah I've heard if you get a Squier with the gold Squier logo (didn't you buy a Classic Vibe recently?)… they're pretty solid guitars. I got my dad one because his guitar had a terrible accident and the repairs were really expensive and I thought that was a bit shit that he didn't have a guitar. And he loves it. And his guitar was an old Japanese knockoff Fender that was REALLY nice (RIP to that guitar), and he says his Squier is just as good.

It's a good time to be a guitarist in terms of buying gear. Because there's a ton of stuff that isn't anywhere close to "top tier" in terms of price that can compete with more expensive gear. Maybe not the best time to be a guitarist if you want to be a Rockstar that makes a ton of money off their music though 

 

I did and its a great guitar. I use it when we do jam work now or when I just feel like trying something new at home. I couldn't be more pleased with the purchase. It gets great reviews all over the internet too which is odd considering most people see Squier and go "oh thats the cheaper variety" which isn't really true as its just as good as some high end Fenders. 

Edit: Its a Classic Vibe 50s and if you want that kind of sound I  highly recommend it over the American Standard.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Mel81x said:

I did and its a great guitar. I use it when we do jam work now or when I just feel like trying something new at home. I couldn't be more pleased with the purchase. It gets great reviews all over the internet too which is odd considering most people see Squier and go "oh thats the cheaper variety" which isn't really true as its just as good as some high end Fenders. 

 

I think the most shocking thing about the Classic Vibes is that the fret work is... pretty fucking good and they use nice pickups in them. And they're really fucking cheap. CNC machines are magic with how they've transformed "low budget" guitars into actually really good options for people at a cost that isn't fucking mental.

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think the most shocking thing about the Classic Vibes is that the fret work is... pretty fucking good and they use nice pickups in them. And they're really fucking cheap. CNC machines are magic with how they've transformed "low budget" guitars into actually really good options for people at a cost that isn't fucking mental.

I think if you're a student in today's music landscape you have such great options compared to what we had years ago. I see kids in the institute all the time with brands like Cort, ESP, etc and I can't really fault any of those instruments for a student. And you're right the work done by CNCs is so good I recommend that you go to a store try it out against a regular Fender and even you'd be confused how they made something cheap sound the way they did. All the praise should really go to Cort, what they are doing for the instrument business these days is stellar. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

I think if you're a student in today's music landscape you have such great options compared to what we had years ago. I see kids in the institute all the time with brands like Cort, ESP, etc and I can't really fault any of those instruments for a student. And you're right the work done by CNCs is so good I recommend that you go to a store try it out against a regular Fender and even you'd be confused how they made something cheap sound the way they did. All the praise should really go to Cort, what they are doing for the instrument business these days is stellar. 

Who's responsible for the insane developments in solid state amplification & digital signal processing? Because oh my god... I don't think anything in the music world has come as far as cheap amps sounding good & amp modeling/effects modeling all of a sudden being great. That's another area where you can get astounding quality for fairly fucking cheap as a musician or music student.

I remember when I fucking started... my amp was absolute shit - and I knew it because my dad had (still has, actually) a nice Marshall that sounds great. I had a MFX unit by Zoom, it was FUCKING CRAP - especially compared to like... any modern day MFX unit. Although it was cool for figuring out what effects I liked and didn't like... it just absolutely pales in comparison to what I'd have available to me at pretty low prices today if I'd been in the same position.

Tbh, a used Squier/Jackson RS line and a Focusrite Scarlet... and there's a shitload of free amp sim plugins, effects, and IRs would give me a setup that tonally blows away what I started with - and it'd be cheaper. There really has never been a better time for wanting to learn how to play guitar.

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Mel81x - do you ever use any of the drumming software ever? If so... what do you use?

[Mel81x+]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Mel81x - do you ever use any of the drumming software ever? If so... what do you use?

I have tried over the years and I used Native a lot.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/drums/studio-drummer/

But then it gets very repetitive so I just use a MIDI keyboard with Logic now (its a pain to setup but once you get going it can become quite easy)

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Mel81x said:

I have tried over the years and I used Native a lot.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/drums/studio-drummer/

But then it gets very repetitive so I just use a MIDI keyboard with Logic now (its a pain to setup but once you get going it can become quite easy)

Ahh a MIDI keyboard - that’ll definitely make it less of a pain in the arse. I was hoping it was just this software I’m using, but every drum software looks pretty similar

[Mel81x+]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ahh a MIDI keyboard - that’ll definitely make it less of a pain in the arse. I was hoping it was just this software I’m using, but every drum software looks pretty similar

It can get so so complicated and unless you're DJing or into something that requires so much complexity its not worth it. I have a Cajon I practice on to get the beat timing then I just use the MIDI keyboard to punch the beats into Logic.

[Mel81x+]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ahh a MIDI keyboard - that’ll definitely make it less of a pain in the arse. I was hoping it was just this software I’m using, but every drum software looks pretty similar

This is what I use and its small but once you get used to it you can do some very nice drum beats and ... you can play other instruments through the MIDI interface too if you want to learn music production, etc. Plus, its cheap.

[Inverted]

So I've been playing my brothers old SG for a while now and he's starting to make noises about maybe asking for it back when he moves to his new flat. I've been quite enjoying playing guitar regularly and I think it's time to look into buying my own guitar. 

I don't think I'm good enough, or likely enough to play around other people often enough, to justify spending more than around £500 on a guitar, but the selection is still a lot wider than I expected. I've even found you can get some nice Fenders if you're willing to go pre-owned and go for Mexican/Japanese models. 

Any suggestions for how to go about buying a guitar without getting ripped off, or particular models which are versatile for someone interested in a range of genres? 

Edit: one model which I consistently see written highly about are the Fender Player strats, which are seemingly quite gettable for like £300-£400 pre-used. Anyone had experience with these? 

[Mel81x+]

3 hours ago, Inverted said:

I don't think I'm good enough, or likely enough to play around other people often enough, to justify spending more than around £500 on a guitar, but the selection is still a lot wider than I expected. I've even found you can get some nice Fenders if you're willing to go pre-owned and go for Mexican/Japanese models. 

Any suggestions for how to go about buying a guitar without getting ripped off, or particular models which are versatile for someone interested in a range of genres? 

Edit: one model which I consistently see written highly about are the Fender Player strats, which are seemingly quite gettable for like £300-£400 pre-used. Anyone had experience with these? 

I'll try and answer each line as a point

1. Preowned - This will take some time but I think the investment in time can actually get you some stellar deals on a guitar that will last a while and has the versatility you are looking for. Keep in mind that a lot of people just put these guitars up because they've sometimes got problems but I'd imagine fixing it is cheaper than paying the market price. Look for things like if the wood is cracked around the head of the guitar or where the neck is joined to the body as those are common things that could destroy your investment really quick. Other things to watch out for are if the screws on anything look like they're bending off the body (the place where the strings offer the most tension) because over time they'll bend the wood and then your playing will suffer and you can actually start getting hand injuries as a result. 
2. Genre playing - Strats are very versatile for a lot of genres and they have so much variety in the space you can get lost in the choices they actually offer. The best bet is to go hunting online for a good deal but before getting it go into a store and hold it in your hand. These strats may all look the same but they have small things in neck variations so if you're hands are average/small (like mine) you may enjoy playing a thinner neck versus the traditional fatter neck or if you want nicer spacing because you don't want to stretch too much to play chords or melodies that can be a huge influence in what you buy. But, step into a store and take about 15 minutes to hold each one in your hand it makes a world of difference to your choices. Listen for stuff like noise on the line as well, some people like that hum the guitar makes and some don't. Fender offer options to cancel that as well if you're picky.
3. Models - The player series is very good and is actually what Fender started in place of their Made in Mexico stack of guitars. Its a good guitar for loads of reasons - price, quality of electronics, great tuners (depending on the year), fret-board action (I like it but as I suggested earlier step into a store and just spend 10 minutes with one) and lastly their wood construction. If you haven't seen it already try the Squier Classic Vibe series from Fender. You get the same things as a player for a lesser cost brand new and while it may not have the wood for the body (which means nothing really in the grander scheme of things) you will get a quality instrument without breaking the bank. If you choose to later you can even upgrade it with kits that you can have installed for far cheaper as they are very easy on maintenance. Here's a model I found which is a 70s style Classic Vibe under 350 https://www.andertons.co.uk/brands/squier/squier-stratocaster-guitars/squier-classic-vibe-70s-stratocaster-hss-laurel-fingerboard-walnut. I'd recommend looking for a 50s Classic Vibe as those are so fantastic for their price and are very good pre-owned as well. They are modeled on the American Standard so you get all the bells and whistles of its more expensive cousin for a much cheaper price.

I play a Classic Vibe and I have also played the American Standard, Made in Meixco, Player and the Professional line. The variations in their sound can be fixed later with a good amp or even if you want to with a cheap equalizer pedal in the middle. I personally like the Classic Vibe because if you put it up against its more expensive counterparts the sound variations are so minor some people can't tell if its a Squier or not. 

Tagging @Dr. Gonzo and @Happy Blue to offer stuff outside the Fender line and they'll probably know where to score better deals in Europe.

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Inverted one good thing about you learning to play on a Gibson SG is you got to start on something very nice early on in your guitar playing days. So you’ll know if something feels a bit shit on a lower priced guitar - and really that’s honestly the most important things, how it feels. Because you can change the electronics and hardware and shit like that.

But at that price range you’ll definitely find things that play and feel excellent. Like you found & like @Mel81x said, there’s a lot of good stuff around that price (and sometimes lower tbh).

Do a quick google search on how to check if a guitars neck. Knowing about this makes the used market a lot less risky (and not every guitar shop checks if they’re selling crap or not either).

With the used market you can find phenomenal value, but even new there’s plenty of good new options that’ll still get you plenty of value.

The most important thing will be how the neck feels and how the guitar sounds, which imo is mostly from the pickups and the amp used. Watch out for shit like sharp pokey fret edges, but if you see the frets all look and feel nicely rounded off... that’s a sign of a nicely made guitar. With the sound, there’s a lot to it... but the simplest way to think about it is: do you like humbucker tones, do you like single cool tones, or do you like both. Generally speaking I think a guitar with single coils in the neck & middle with a bridge humbucker are the most versatile.

I’d check out different guitar shops playing different guitars in that price range & also looking at guitars you seem keen on YouTube (but a lotta these are stores so take it with a pinch of salt, but they can be decent tone demos).

[Dr. Gonzo]

In my everlasting quest to find an amp that I think sounds good at low volumes and... tbh, what I really want is something that feels like a valve amp, I've sold the 6505 combo (too fucking loud) & I've sold the Boss Katana 50 (was a tough decision tbh). I've decided I'm keeping the Mooer because, quite frankly, it's nice having a super versatile modeler - and it did everything the Katana 50 could do (and probably more tbh). And the modeler is probably how I'll go when I want to fuck around with new tones or experiment with new sounds... and I'll be plugging it into the FX Return part of the new amp I just picked up.

But a lot of the time I just want an amp that's got a good base tone. Not too many effects really, a noise-gate & an overdrive as a boost maybe (found myself putting a tube screamer in 90% of the patches I made on the GE200 and the Helix, prior to those fuckers stealing my fucking Helix), my MXR 10-Band & delay in the FX loop and... that's pretty much it. So after several trips to various guitar shops fucking around with various "micro amp" heads - I think I've found the one for me finally. And I am very happy that it's much cheaper than the 6505 MH which I was leaning towards (although that amp might be overall the better choice for me).

I just picked up the insanely tiny, insanely cheap (£149 new!) Orange Micro Dark head (basically a tiny version of the Orange Dark Terror) - it's got 1 valve in the preamp and a 20 watt solid state power section. They advertise is as being voiced for metal... but I'm not sure how accurate that is - it definitely needs an overdrive to give it a boost into utter brutality, but thankfully I've got one of the pedals I'll be using with this already. I like that it very much feels, sounds, and acts like a full valve amp - most of the hybrid amps I felt didn't have that same responsiveness as a valve amp. I also like how it sounds really good quiet... but if I crank the fucking thing up it definitely feels like an amp I could probably gig with if I wanted to. It's surprisingly loud & last night we ran it through my friends 4x12 cab to give it a little volume test and I was seriously impressed.

And after blasting my ears off with it, I took it home and played around a bit at home at home volumes. I was told by my wife that the volumes I was playing at were perfect. And that really makes the purchase worthwhile because finally I can play at low volumes and get a tone I am happy with, without having to tweak a billion settings on the Mooer because for some reason what sounds good at one volume with that doesn't necessarily translate to what'll sound good. And with all of that valve responsiveness that guitar players love so much.

The only thing I don't really like about it is the EQ knob really just scoops/boosts the mids and that's about it - minor problem though when you've got a 10-band EQ pedal though. But other than that, seriously impressed with this tiny little head with it's tiny little pricetag but it's massive tone.

So now I'm borrowing a shite little 1x12 from a friend while I look for a new cabinet... and I've got loads of cash left over from selling the other two amps. So all in all, very pleased.

I hope this is the end of my very long amp search - now that I've gone through several fucking amps 

[Dr. Gonzo]

20 hours ago, Inverted said:

Edit: one model which I consistently see written highly about are the Fender Player strats, which are seemingly quite gettable for like £300-£400 pre-used. Anyone had experience with these? 

I think these replaced the "Fender Standard" Made in Mexico line. I've not played the newer replacement "Player" series - but I did used to have a made in Mexico Fender Standard Stratocaster that I bought used. It was a FANTASTIC guitar - I don't really have anything bad to say about it at all. The only reason I don't have it anymore is because when I moved to the US, I was worried about whether or not the airline would damage the guitar... so I sold it and used the money from the sale to buy myself a guitar once I got settled after the move. If you're looking at Fenders, but you don't want to pay the big bucks of a USA made Fender, those Mexican Fenders are a great deal.

Also as @Mel81x mentioned, Fender's budget brand Squier has Fender models made out in China and Indonesia that compete with the more expensive Fenders.The product line that Mel recommended, the "Classic Vibe" series is very affordable and the guitars come with some very nice pickups on them. And I've got a bit of experience with them as well and can vouch for their quality, I got my dad one of those for his birthday. It plays fantastically and it sounds great and it wasn't very expensive.

If you do end up going with a Squier… I can only recommend 2 of their product lines though. If you want something with the "vintage" specs in terms of your pickups and hardware, go with the "Classic Vibe" series. They're better made than most Squier guitars by a bit and like I said, the electronics in them are really high quality for the money you pay. If you want something with more modern, I'd go with the "Contemporary" series - I think with the kind of music you like playing, you'd probably want to steer clear of the Contemporary Squiers that have the active pickups and the Floyd Rose tremolos. But something like this: https://shop.fender.com/en-GB/squier-electric-guitars/stratocaster/contemporary-stratocaster-hss/0370322523.html - that's a lot of guitar for a decent price & that pickup configuration is extremely versatile.

[Inverted]

I did a little looking around today and worked up the balls to actually try out a couple of guitars. 

I went into the Glasgow branch of GuitarGuitar and they had a 2019 Player Strat for £370!? It looked flawless, couldn't see anything wrong with the woodwork or the bridge. Loved the weight and feel of it as well.

That's my leading contender right now - the only things I didn't like were the strings which were a bit thin for my preference. That's easily changed. The neck also seemed a bit wide but idk if my brother's SG is just thin-necked, and I need to get used to a wider neck. 

 

[Mel81x+]

3 hours ago, Inverted said:

I did a little looking around today and worked up the balls to actually try out a couple of guitars. 

I went into the Glasgow branch of GuitarGuitar and they had a 2019 Player Strat for £370!? It looked flawless, couldn't see anything wrong with the woodwork or the bridge. Loved the weight and feel of it as well.

That's my leading contender right now - the only things I didn't like were the strings which were a bit thin for my preference. That's easily changed. The neck also seemed a bit wide but idk if my brother's SG is just thin-necked, and I need to get used to a wider neck. 

 

I think its because of the neck radius on Gibsons versus Fenders. On a Fender because of the width it tends to be a little sleeker but the bridge goes wider for more stability. I could be wrong here and @Dr. Gonzo can chime in too but on Gibsons the necks are thinner and chunkier? Like those old Ibanez's before they went ultra-slim. 

I think that's a stellar deal for a guitar and if you like it then I think you should get it. Can't really go wrong with a Player Series strat and you'll learn a whole new range of tones and dynamics playing that guitar. Don't worry too much about the fretboard for now you'll get used to it over time. Fenders dont have obscenely wider necks like some custom brands so they are very playable for people with average to smaller hands. 

Oh and ask the person at GuitarGuitar to set it up for you as he can lower the action (string to board height) and make some other minor changes to make it a more fun playing experience.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I always felt Gibsons had big fat chunky necks compared to Fenders. But I think Gibson uses 3 different neck profiles & I’ve only come across just one of them. I’ve also never played an Ibanez that didn’t have a paper thin neck.

There’s a lot of reasons why it’ll feel different tbh. Different neck profile, Gibson fretboard radius v Fender’s (Gibson’s generally have flatter fretboard radiuses than Fender’s - some of Fender’s other brands use necks that have a rounder radius at the top & it’s flatter at the higher frets, for soloing). Then there’s also the scale length - the Fenders have a bit longer scale length than the Gibsons - that affects the tension in the strings & probably which gauge of string you would prefer on the guitar. I use thicker strings on Gibson scale length guitars than Fender scale length guitars because I’m used to a certain tension in the strings.

@Inverted - that’s actually a bargain mate. I cannot say a bad word about that guitar at that price. Also with the thin strings on guitars, most manufacturers slap .9 gauge strings on every guitar they make - which I think a lot of people think “this is too thin!” No idea why they do that.

[Inverted]

I think I may be mistaking width for overall neck chunkiness. 

On the SG, my hand wraps around the neck quite far - I can pinch my fingers around it and a bit further. 

It didn't feel so easy on the strat. But I think if I went to buy it and held it again I would be able to tell if it was a real issue. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

55 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I think I may be mistaking width for overall neck chunkiness. 

On the SG, my hand wraps around the neck quite far - I can pinch my fingers around it and a bit further. 

It didn't feel so easy on the strat. But I think if I went to buy it and held it again I would be able to tell if it was a real issue. 

Tbh I just find Gibson’s scale length and fretboard radius easier to play on generally. If you do go back to buy it, make sure you play with it for a bit... make sure you actually like the thing first before you fork over your hard earned cash.

But I suspect it’s just that you’re not quite used to Fender necks (first time you held one, right?) and in the long run it wouldn’t be a big issue. I think (like not very certain at all, it’s just my guess) it’s mostly the scale length, it feels like you’ve got to stretch your fingers a bit more (to me, at least) with the Fender scale length.

[Mel81x+]

On 08/11/2019 at 15:55, Inverted said:

I think I may be mistaking width for overall neck chunkiness. 

On the SG, my hand wraps around the neck quite far - I can pinch my fingers around it and a bit further. 

It didn't feel so easy on the strat. But I think if I went to buy it and held it again I would be able to tell if it was a real issue. 

I think you'd grow into it over time personally. When I moved from playing a fender to playing a Gibson I was confused why the neck was so thick and it felt weird at first because you're used to having your thumb rest a certain way on Fender necks to get maximum reach. Keep in mind also that with Fenders specifically they use fret-spacing (between the metal binders) to create wider bend arcs for players that want to play jazz and other genres that use sustain quite a lot which also gives you that double finger bend if you're into that kind of music or technique.

When you do pick it up spend some more time playing it as suggested by @Dr. Gonzo because sometimes you hold it once and think its good then you'll go back for round 2 and it feels a bit different. At the end of the day and after years of playing various instruments I can only say that its all really up to personal preference. When I play acoustic/classical guitar I want a wider neck to afford better finger stability and when I am playing rock music I prefer a slightly thinner neck so I can choose to use my thumb to cover bass notes in songs that need them but whatever you end up getting practice will overcome most of those difficulties. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Mel81x please explain to me how this is fucking possible:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_g112_vintage.htm

That's got a Celestion Vintage 30 in it, that's a nice speaker.

But also...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/celestion_vintage_30_gitarrenspeaker.htm

HOW IS THE SPEAKER BARELY CHEAPER THAN THE CABINET? I ordered it because that doesn't make any sense, but it's Thomann's brand - so I'm not overly concerned about the authenticity of it. Is it an OEM made in China Celestian Vintage 30 rather than the expensive English ones?

[Mel81x+]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Mel81x please explain to me how this is fucking possible:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_g112_vintage.htm

That's got a Celestion Vintage 30 in it, that's a nice speaker.

But also...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/celestion_vintage_30_gitarrenspeaker.htm

HOW IS THE SPEAKER BARELY CHEAPER THAN THE CABINET? I ordered it because that doesn't make any sense, but it's Thomann's brand - so I'm not overly concerned about the authenticity of it. Is it an OEM made in China Celestian Vintage 30 rather than the expensive English ones?

That makes zero sense to me because there is so much conflicting information online about it too. If you go looking for Celestion speakers in the G112 range online you'll find this.

https://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/

Now, it says you get two impedance range speakers one in the 8ohm and the other in the 16ohm range. The one in the first link with the cab seems to be the 8ohm variety and the second link for just the speaker seems to be the 16ohm one. You can read here about what it does for your sound and its a great read for anyone wanting to buy a cab really as it talks about frequency cancellations and how the impedance of the line (cable) can also cause problems in the delivered sound quality.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-impedance

My only guess is that Harley Benton is using the lower impedance Celestion as it offers a smaller range of frequency breaks while offering players some kind of high output on their instruments to cause the guitar to give some semblance of clean sounds. Also, since the case is technically manufactured in China they could be also manufacturing a Celestion clone and putting it in the case. If you look at the comments on that first link there's someone who doesn't think the case will last too long but says the speaker is pretty okayish. I personally think its an original Celestion with a very poor case which might have electrical issues and bleed the sound outwards but that's nothing to be scoffed about as this isn't something you're going to put through the paces to make it need higher power driving anyways. 

I also think when you get the original Celestion you're getting a better circuit block in the cab as well which then does all the wondrous sound-magic to give you clean tones that don't sound like you've just jacked your guitar into a very poor sound-source. The price of that case might make a lot of sense if they are using cheaper electronics in there with poor resistors to offset the connector point to the speakers and then it really does start to make sense.

• Cheaper Celestion 8ohm Speaker
• Cabinet manufacturing around 10 - 15 dollars (maybe less)
• Put them together and offer players a cab solution with the low-end speaker and a housing all together

That's my only logic here.

[Mel81x+]

@Dr. Gonzo thoughts? This is the only JEM whose color I can stand in the upper range. The rest of them look like Borat on a holiday with their neon colourings. Thinking of picking this up in the new year or maybe before.