AFC Wimbledon Could Appoint Emma Hayes

[Smiley Culture]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1391877/AFC-Wimbledon-manager-Emma-Hayes-Chelsea/amp

I know nothing about her except that she left me a terrible side on Football Manager when I replaced her at Stockport. 

[Pyfish+]

My knowledge of her is also that of Football Manager. She replaced me on FM20 at Leeds and won the fucking Premier League. 

[Smiley Culture]

48 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Giving the amount of criticism we gave them for appointing a male manager to the women's England team, I think the same standard should be applied in the opposite direction.

Who did?

Not to mention what kind of horrible message is she sending to Chelsea's woman if she leaves them to manage League One AFC Wimbledon, 'you're less valuable than a 3rd tier mens side' 

Horrible message?! 

Yet another argument for merging the women's super league with the men's premier league structurally (separate leagues) and allowing money to flow between the two with women's matches played before the mens matches at stadiums. 
 

I think I preferred the 275 team Premier League idea better.

 

[Smiley Culture]

20 minutes ago, Pyfish said:

My knowledge of her is also that of Football Manager. She replaced me on FM20 at Leeds and won the fucking Premier League. 

That’s some step up from having seven strikers whilst playing one up top and having no DM despite playing a 4-3-3 at Stockport. 

[Smiley Culture]

41 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Who did?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/24/who-could-replace-phil-neville-as-england-womens-manager

The FA themselves?

Horrible Message?

The message literally in the sentence you're responding to - as 1st tier woman's player's  'you're less valuable than a 3rd tier mens side' 

I think I preferred the 275 team Premier League idea better.

Surely you can see the benefits for woman's football of playing their matches before or after men's matches in terms of revenue boosting and raising the sports profile?

That’s not criticism. 

It’s also not a horrible message. 

None at all. 

[Stan]

39 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Men should manage men's football and woman's woman's football.

This is very backwards.

[ScoRoss]

40 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

If your that daft you think there'd be no revenue best for the woman's game playing in full capacity men's stadiums, no point in discussing this with you.

What revenue is created by it, if the tickets have already been sold?

There is a different make up to the crowds of men's and women's football. Why would you alienate the fans of women's football by making it more difficult to go to the games?

[Smiley Culture]

49 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Try this for size then http://backpagefootball.com/why-phil-neville-is-a-terrible-appointment-for-the-womens-game/117686/

"Lack of experience in woman's game" - what pre-managerial experience of the men's game does Emma Hayes's have. It's a woke ticket appointment if ever there was one.  Men should manage men's football and woman's woman's football.

 

Yes it is - leaving 1st tier woman's football team to go to 3rd tier men's football is a disgusting message to send your female players - "I view the women's super league as less of a league and a worse job than working in the 3rd tier of men's football essentially suggesting woman's football is on par with League Two."

 

If your that daft you think there'd be no revenue best for the woman's game playing in full capacity men's stadiums, no point in discussing this with you.

I have no idea what background Emma Hayes is from, whether she’s managed males and females or just females. It matters little, in all honesty. 

It’s really not. A form of the game that has only gone professional in the last ten years is a lower step than third tier men’s football. 

No, I think you’d get people going into grounds at 11 instead of 12.30-1 and getting tanked up, more than they do now. It would almost certainly be a backward step for men’s football and for football fans in general. I highly doubt it would be allowed by the police as well. 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Point is she should have never managed a men's team in first place and women's teams should never have been managed by men in the first place. 

I can't imagine many folk can get that tanked up in 15 minutes half time - hand bar tokens out with tickets.....

 

I'd imagine with enough pressure from the same woke brigade who think Emma Hayes is a suitable manager for men's football the police would have to allow it.

 

You seem to be do everything to position yourself as the non-sexist one in this debate, despite the fact your the one demeaning woman's football and claiming it shouldn't be played on the same par as men's football. Before the sexist football league quashed woman's football in the earlieth 20th century it was played in front of crowds similar to that of men's football. I don't think it's ridiculous to think with a co-ordinated effort and making it easier to watch it could be again.  

Do you see how you contradict yourself?

First you say it's only men managing men and women managing women, then you go on to say women's football should be played on the same day as men's football.

 

Make your mind up.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, ToonFan said:

I'm saying woman should manage women's football because it should be regarded in the same stature as men's to the point women don't want to abandon it for the men's game. Unfortunately due to nearly a century of disrespect for the woman's game by football's authority that's not the case and the woman's game is inferior - the only way to narrow that gap is my suggestion of gradually edging to parity by playing the games back to back with the mens. 

In doing so you're creating a glass ceiling for women at this moment in time. 

'we'll get you exposure for now on the same platform as men's game, but sorry, you can't manage them because you're not on a same generic level as them'. 

That's hardly parity for them. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, ToonFan said:

I'm sure most woman would far rather see the women's game elevated to the status of the men's game over the course of the next 20 years and sacrifice there own short term personal financial success than watch it fester as it has done for the past 100. 

Or there could be both?

If women are good enough to manage at any level, including the men's game, then why restrict them of that opportunity just because they have a vagina?

Who are you to decide who sacrifices their own short-term personal success? Putting all those years of hard work and then all they can do is keep managing in the women's game?

Why can't women see the game elevated over the next X amount of years and also manage at (current) higher levels? Is it not a good advocate of the women's game to see one of their own manage in the men's game?

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Except they aren't that good. There's not been no successful female premier league managers because they aren't that good. 

Nope because - "And maybe if female managers had that glass ceiling they'd work to help improve the female game rather than run off to the men's game at first sign of a higher pay cheque."

 

•  

Yet now that one of the managers has a chance to manage at a competitive, professional level in the men's game, you don't like it? 

You forcibly want to impose a glass ceiling to keep women in the women's game, in the hope their level of game is inflated to a high enough standard as men's game (at PL level according to you, or nothing).

I think you create more harm to the women's game here than you think. I don't think your wish or concept is practical and you are more of a hindrance to it.

[Smiley Culture]

43 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Point is she should have never managed a men's team in first place and women's teams should never have been managed by men in the first place. 

I can't imagine many folk can get that tanked up in 15 minutes half time - hand bar tokens out with tickets.....

 

I'd imagine with enough pressure from the same woke brigade who think Emma Hayes is a suitable manager for men's football the police would have to allow it.

 

You seem to be do everything to position yourself as the non-sexist one in this debate, despite the fact your the one demeaning woman's football and claiming it shouldn't be played on the same par as men's football. Before the sexist football league quashed woman's football in the earlieth 20th century it was played in front of crowds similar to that of men's football. I don't think it's ridiculous to think with a co-ordinated effort and making it easier to watch it could be again.  

Why shouldn’t she? Or why shouldn’t I do my FA badges and coach the nearest women’s team to my house?

I’ve no idea what the half time reference is about but a women’s game at say 12 and a men’s game at 3 means you need to open the gates at 10.30-11. You’re guaranteed that blokes will go in and get tanked up from then till 3. 

I’m not positioning myself any way. I’m merely stating that there’s nothing wrong with people of whatever sex coaching whatever sex they want to coach.

I’m also saying that it’s not “disgusting” that a woman could a lower standard, of which the women’s League is, to a higher standard, of which the third tier of men’s football, is. Disgusting is a pretty emotive word and a pretty strong word, in my book. I’d say that it’s more disgusting blocking Emma Hayes from having the opportunity to apply for the job at AFC Wimbledon based purely upon her sex and the sex of the footballers that she’s coached. 
 

[ScoRoss]

1 hour ago, ToonFan said:

Not at all, you sell tickets for the games to the crowd who'd normally go and then give everyone else the option of paying £5-10 extra or less on their match ticket to watch the woman's game and fill the empty seats in the stadium. I'd imagine a lot more mens football fans would hang around, or go up early for a woman's football match if it back to backed with the men's game.  It wouldn't be any more difficult for woman's football fans to go to the games.

So you want people to go, but then completely clear out the stadium between the matches? Sounds a complete disaster.

[Mpache]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

This is very backwards.

I agree with him to be honest. Firstly a female manager wouldn't be as respected thanks to the sexism in the sport. I'm not saying that's OK, but it would just escalate the problem rather than trying to fix it. It also means a women needs to go into the male dressing room.

As for men managing women, it's the same deal really, however it would send out the wrong message if men are allowed to manage a women team but not a women with a men sports side.

We've seen men struggle to manage the dressing room at top level thanks to inflated egos. And these players don't exactly have education to change that.

[Mpache]

51 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

I'm sure most woman would far rather see the women's game elevated to the status of the men's game over the course of the next 20 years and sacrifice there own short term personal financial success

This isn't entirely true I'm afraid though. I know a lot of non-feminist girls who only watch the mens game, while supporting the womens game from far, in the same way we do so.

[Smiley Culture]

3 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

They wouldn't be able to as you can't take booze into the pitch at UK football matches, so they'd have a 15-20 minute window with which they could buy alcohol - just make sure the bars only open for around 20-30 minutes at half time anyway.

 

Clear out one stand. As that's the amount of the stadium that would be filled by woman's football fans, the rest would likely be on dual tickets.

 

Most football stadiums can be emptied in 10-15 minutes at most anyway. 

Have you ever been to a football game? You can drink out of sight of the pitch. Having been to a couple of Emirates Cup’s at Arsenal, Arsenal fans spent much of the “other” game beneath the stand drinking and eating. It would almost certainly be the same for women’s football. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Mpache said:

I agree with him to be honest. Firstly a female manager wouldn't be as respected thanks to the sexism in the sport. I'm not saying that's OK, but it would just escalate the problem rather than trying to fix it. It also means a women needs to go into the male dressing room.

As for men managing women, it's the same deal really, however it would send out the wrong message if men are allowed to manage a women team but not a women with a men sports side.

We've seen men struggle to manage the dressing room at top level thanks to inflated egos. And these players don't exactly have education to change that.

What's your suggestion to fix it then, if at all?

Or just let women stick to women's sport, not give them a chance, and continue to let them be disrespected? Just keep them down in the inferior game and make that glass ceiling even more impenetrable?

As for women going in to the dressing room - is that not allowed? Is that taboo in your world? Women can't mix with men?

[Mpache]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

What's your suggestion to fix it then, if at all?

Or just let women stick to women's sport, not give them a chance, and continue to let them be disrespected? Just keep them down in the inferior game and make that glass ceiling even more impenetrable?

As for women going in to the dressing room - is that not allowed? Is that taboo in your world? Women can't mix with men?

My suggestion at the very least is to start as coaches and not get the big job immediately. I think there need to be more female coaches in the mens game to build some way of respect first. Otherwise if things go south they'll lose the dressing room and then cause a big outrage about how the players are misogynists'. I think it's something that needs to evolve.

As for your second point, so if they manage the Women sport they'd be disrespected? At this point it's become about equal pay and that's the right direction to go in my opinion. Of course there still needs some work done, but at the end of the day that should be the end goal of it all. Womens football gets bigger every year, so it's really just a matter of time.

Santiago Morning had a women as their potential manager a few years ago in Chile, but she got ousted immediately because the players were against it. Again, that's not OK at all and that's sexism at it's finest, but you can't just shoehorn them in from the start without some sort of evolution because that sort of thing is bound to happen.

To clarify: I'm not entirely against women managing the mens sport, but I just don't think it will work yet and cause an even bigger outrage if egos get in the way.

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Mpache said:

My suggestion at the very least is to start as coaches and not get the big job immediately. I think there need to be more female coaches in the mens game to build some way of respect first. Otherwise if things go south they'll lose the dressing room and then cause a big outrage about how the players are misogynists'. I think it's something that needs to evolve.

As for your second point, so if they manage the Women sport they'd be disrespected? At this point it's become about equal pay and that's the right direction to go in my opinion. Of course there still needs some work done, but at the end of the day that should be the end goal of it all. Womens football gets bigger every year, so it's really just a matter of time.

Santiago Morning had a women as their potential manager a few years ago in Chile, but she got ousted immediately because the players were against it. Again, that's not OK at all and that's sexism at it's finest, but you can't just shoehorn them in from the start without some sort of evolution because that sort of thing is bound to happen.

To clarify: I'm not entirely against women managing the mens sport, but I just don't think it will work yet and cause an even bigger outrage if egos get in the way.

First point - I don't claim to know much about Emma Hayes but a quick Google and found this - https://www.coachesvoice.com/my-calling/

Coaching since 20 years old (she's now 44). Has attained several coaching badges in that time. Had a lot of experiences as a coach and as a manager in America as well as England. Successful experiences, too. So, it's hardly 'immediately' that she's got the job. She's clearly worked hard for it and got the right qualifications to manage at the men's level. What more respect could you get?

Maybe the fact she's being considered for a manager's job at the men's level is a sign of respect? How much more would she have to do at the women's level to get the respect you crave her to have?

The fact that some egos might get in the way of a woman managing a men's team just feeds in to those egos and until someone breaks that cycle and is given the respect and time to confront that and challenge it, that will never change.

[Mpache]

Just now, Stan said:

First point - I don't claim to know much about Emma Hayes but a quick Google and found this - https://www.coachesvoice.com/my-calling/

Coaching since 20 years old (she's now 44). Has attained several coaching badges in that time. Had a lot of experiences as a coach and as a manager in America as well as England. Successful experiences, too. So, it's hardly 'immediately' that she's got the job. She's clearly worked hard for it and got the right qualifications to manage at the men's level. What more respect could you get?

Maybe the fact she's being considered for a manager's job at the men's level is a sign of respect? How much more would she have to do at the women's level to get the respect you crave her to have?

The fact that some egos might get in the way of a woman managing a men's team just feeds in to those egos and until someone breaks that cycle and is given the respect and time to confront that and challenge it, that will never change.

I agree there needs to be some way to tackle this, but it's not uncommon to read a footballer being abusive towards women. I've even seen a player once get physically aggressive with a male manager before. That would cause a massive outrage in the community, it's not just losing the dressing room. 

She's clearly qualified to manage at this level but I still think it's risky to put her in this soon given ethics and how footballers don't have an education. Has this even been tried in other sports yet? I think besides American football, association football players have amongst the lowest education levels in the mainstream sport world.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Mpache said:

I agree there needs to be some way to tackle this, but it's not uncommon to read a footballer being abusive towards women. I've even seen a player once get physically aggressive with a male manager before. That would cause a massive outrage in the community, it's not just losing the dressing room. 

She's clearly qualified to manage at this level but I still think it's risky to put her in this soon given ethics and how footballers don't have an education. Has this even been tried in other sports yet? I think besides American football, association football players have amongst the lowest education levels in the mainstream sport world.

Do you have anything to back this up?

[Mpache]

Take a look at this example @Stan

This is Charles Monsalvo, who got aggressive with his manager Marcelo Grioni 2 years ago for being subbed off.

I'll let you translate it on your own. Here is the link: https://depor.com/futbol-peruano/descentralizado/sport-huancayo-marcelo-grioni-y-charles-monsalvo-manos-pesar-del-triunfo-fotos-y-video-70271/

If this happened with a female manager, the law could get involved, and nobody wants that. And these footballers aren't the kind to not do this just because the manager is female. We've seen footballers be abusive to women before. This is partially why I don't think it's time yet for this sort of shift.

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Do you have anything to back this up?

Not in terms of American football. That's more of a generalization. I know they go to college but the concussions don't exactly help.

In most American sports, athletes do go to college and high school. That's not the case with football especially with how international it is. When I was living in Peru doing work at youth football, some players had trouble getting shoes and went to low quality schools, if any at all. And we're far from the poorest country in the world. Just a bit of an example and it really shows with their attitude at any level.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Not in terms of American football. That's more of a generalization. I know they go to college but the concussions don't exactly help.

In most American sports, athletes do go to college and high school. That's not the case with football especially with how international it is. When I was living in Peru doing work at youth football, some players had trouble getting shoes and went to low quality schools, if any at all. And we're far from the poorest country in the world. Just a bit of an example and it really shows with their attitude at any level.

I know it's not your intention to just speak about Peru but that's not representative of every footballer across the globe. Now I'm not saying that every footballer has an education or is super clever, but there are some very educated footballers over here, those who have studied while playing. Plenty have university degrees, and not just in sport or football. Not everyone is a neanderthal like that guy you posted above.

Again, a quick Google shows:

Iniesta has a couple of degrees in Sports Science and Business

Chiellini has one in Economics.

Kompany has one in Business.

Mata with Sports Science and Finance.

And cos it's Leicester I know Ndidi has one in Business.

Tomori has Business Management degree.

Mignolet has Law and Political Sciences.

 

I'm sure there's plenty more that probably don't publicise it or are currently studying. I don't buy the notion that footballers are uneducated folk.