Wayne Rooney Sacked by Plymouth

[Dave]

Not a surprise after the last two results.

In hindsight they should have cashed in Morgan Whittaker in the summer and rebuilt the squad, they look the worst team in the league by a landslide when he's out injured.

It's hard to make excuses for Rooney as the away form has always been horrendous and the home forms been pretty bad since early November. What I will say is I think English managers need to look at going overseas to places like Germany if they want to go high in management. The cut throat nature of the English pyramid and the financial rewards for being in the PL provides little to no time to learn from mistakes. 

At least abroad they'd get time to develop philosophies, learn about in game management, develop knowledge on sports science enhancement etc without worrying about appeasing fans and board members who want instant gratification.

[Stan]

Surprised he lasted this long. They were showing bad form for a long time. 

[Gunnersaurus]

5 hours ago, Dave said:

Not a surprise after the last two results.

In hindsight they should have cashed in Morgan Whittaker in the summer and rebuilt the squad, they look the worst team in the league by a landslide when he's out injured.

It's hard to make excuses for Rooney as the away form has always been horrendous and the home forms been pretty bad since early November. What I will say is I think English managers need to look at going overseas to places like Germany if they want to go high in management. The cut throat nature of the English pyramid and the financial rewards for being in the PL provides little to no time to learn from mistakes. 

At least abroad they'd get time to develop philosophies, learn about in game management, develop knowledge on sports science enhancement etc without worrying about appeasing fans and board members who want instant gratification.

I think you're right. You hear people like rednapp say English managers aren't given a chance but foreign managers go abroad if they have to. English managers rarely do that. It does seem to be a bit of a thing in English football to blame foreigners. We did it with footballers for years and only now are we seeing more English players go abroad. 

As for Rooney I don't know. Plymouth only just stayed up last season. So although they are worse I'm not sure how much worse they are. Perhaps he could be an assistant manager for a bit, perhaps abroad like what you said and see how he does. From what I've heard his punditry is quite good so he could do that. He couldn't be any worse that owen 

[RandoEFC+]

Absolute madness how many jobs both Rooney and Lampard have already had in management in the top two divisions given how hopeless they've both been in each one.

[Dave]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Absolute madness how many jobs both Rooney and Lampard have already had in management in the top two divisions given how hopeless they've both been in each one.

I think Rooney's needs a bit of context. Derby was a horrendous situation and in his second season over exceeded expectations. Birmingham was a daft job to take given there was very few points separating them from 5th to 15th and they were about to walk in to a set of very difficult fixtures. This was really the first job to judge him, and fair play for him taking on one of the most difficult jobs in the divison.

Lampard you can spin his times at Derby and his first spell at Chelsea as a success or a failure depending on your narrative. He either did well to get Derby to Wembley or he should have achieved more given where some of those players ended up. He either did well with the embargo at Chelsea and progressing young players or he failed given what Tuchel was able to get out that squad at the end of the season. I can't remember where Everton were in the league table when he was sacked but if they were outside the bottom then you could spin narratives with them. Again, this feels like the first job where we should be able to judge him. I feel like 7th to 12th would be a good season but I'm sure people will push the narrative that Coventry should be better given they've had Gyokeres and Hamer money to spend.

[RandoEFC+]

11 hours ago, Dave said:

I think Rooney's needs a bit of context. Derby was a horrendous situation and in his second season over exceeded expectations. Birmingham was a daft job to take given there was very few points separating them from 5th to 15th and they were about to walk in to a set of very difficult fixtures. This was really the first job to judge him, and fair play for him taking on one of the most difficult jobs in the divison.

Lampard you can spin his times at Derby and his first spell at Chelsea as a success or a failure depending on your narrative. He either did well to get Derby to Wembley or he should have achieved more given where some of those players ended up. He either did well with the embargo at Chelsea and progressing young players or he failed given what Tuchel was able to get out that squad at the end of the season. I can't remember where Everton were in the league table when he was sacked but if they were outside the bottom then you could spin narratives with them. Again, this feels like the first job where we should be able to judge him. I feel like 7th to 12th would be a good season but I'm sure people will push the narrative that Coventry should be better given they've had Gyokeres and Hamer money to spend.

Even with everything considered, Lampard was an appalling Everton manager. He was good at getting the fans on side and his man management seemed pretty good, but his tactical acumen, coaching and game management were worlds away from what's required in the top flight.

Dyche is a totally ordinary manager yet he's got better results at Everton than Lampard did having been forced to sell Gordon, Iwobi, Onana since Lampard left as well.

Don't forget his second stint at Chelsea either where he barely got a win in about 15 games. 

Lampard was massively popular at Everton but management just isn't for him, certainly not at Premier League or even Championship level at this stage.

People make a lot of excuses for these two in my opinion. Other managers have done a lot better in similar challenging conditions like the ones you've pointed out. Lesser known former players wouldn't get the same amount of grace. I honestly think some of these ex-pros have a lot to offer but they'd be better off taking on a mentoring role for a handful of individual players at a time rather than trying to actually coach a full team.

[Dan+]

It was a totally insane appointment. He's been a disaster virtually everywhere.

[Dave]

On 01/01/2025 at 13:53, Dan said:

It was a totally insane appointment. He's been a disaster virtually everywhere.

Three jobs previously and only Birmingham was a disaster, but we all said he was a hiding to nothing at the time.