Man City 5-0 Burnley - Monday 22nd June, 2020

[Fairy In Boots]

6 hours ago, Michael said:

Do you get enjoyment out of insulting others on here?

@Spike explained it perfectly as to why the flying of that banner was a pathetic act. 

For the record, I do not support all the objectives of this BLM organisation. However, I do stand against any unfair discrimination that occurs in our society. 

Yes In all honest I do take enjoyment when it comes to Smiley, he started on me as he usually does and I give it back. You can argue about being the bigger “adult” but I do that all day at work with kids etc, on here I can cut lose on the likes of him.  

7 hours ago, Stan said:

Again, you say we're all adults here but most adults wouldn't rise to the bait and would be the bigger person whether it's dished out or not. And certainly wouldn't go on to carry on using the same word(s) when you know that word gets under someone's skin (rightly or wrongly).

It's an Internet forum. Basically just seen a lot of keyboard-warrior-esque stuff tonight. 

Ergo, grow up. 

See above, although I would ask why it’s ok for him to call me names etc and not me to call him stuff? I never see you police that? I think it’s because you’re more sympathetic to his opinion than mine. He constantly stereotypes me as some kind of NF / EDL twat, I’m not offended by it as I’m not like that. But it does show bias, because you have no issue with that kind of profiling presumably. 

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Im not sure this analogy fits at all. First off, I think rock music was pretty popular by the 90s. It may have been very controversial way back in the 50s and 60s. But I think that’s more because of the energy of the music being way different to what was commonly listened to back them & the sexual nature of the lyrics & dancing. That’s more social conservatives getting offended noise and sex than offending people for the sake of offending people.

Let’s be honest here, using that word (which I’m guilty of using too much too, by the way) isn’t some act of rebellion while also bringing more attention to people suffering of cerebral palsy. You’re just calling him: a moron, an idiot, or just stupid. Tons of other ways to say that that are acceptable, so it’s not like your thoughts are being censored by just asking you to use a different word.

I doubt if we took a poll from black people across the world saying that if the n word was to never be used again, would it give that word more power.

I meant parental advisory in relation to bands like Nirvana, Korn, Nine inch nails, Slipknot etc. 
 

Context is key on the N word, my black mates use the N word to describe rude boy types, think Chris Rock bring the pain.  My army mates who have served with black soldiers use it to them, cracking jokes about “operation get behind the darkies for South Park fans) and because it’s used in a context that isn’t aggressive or discriminatory it’s ok. That’s our circle of friends though. 

7 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I think it's incredibly difficult for white people like us to really have a decent take on stuff like this when we're the main ones who have never really suffered heavily because of our race, certainly not in countries like the UK where everyone is in a minority apart from us.

You can obviously say what you want but I think the longer people default to the "yeah buts" and "what ifs" and false equivalence, they're just making more noise and prolonging this discussion which I'm afraid isn't going to go away.

Let's be honest, you and me know basically nothing about racism. For me it's a case of trying to listen to people who do know about racism, i.e. those that have suffered from it first hand. And I'm not saying you cant have an opinion on it anyway, just that if you genuinely want to understand the answers to things like the question you've posted here, you're probably not going to find it on a forum where a bunch of white guys and one Indian man are arguing about how offended we should and shouldn't be about issues of race.

I'm not saying this is you but a common thread of people who say stuff like all lives matter, white lives matter, aren't that the people saying it are actual racists in any way, but that they feel somehow personally threatened or accused of being racist by accepting that at this moment in time, the conversation about black lives is the one that's most important at this moment in time.

Admitting that no matter how many journalists and commentators I listen to talk about racism, and how much reading I might have done about it, that I still basically know fuck all about it is what I've personally taken from this whole episode.

I’ve had abuse been spat on called “white fuck” and told to leave an area by a gang of Pakistani lads. The predominant  feeling was fear initially because I was worried I’d get a kicking. 

Whites are discriminated against now though systemically in the UK in my opinion.  I think any kind of positive discrimination is discrimination no matter how you cut it, I know we’ve taken on poor quality candidates because of pressure for diversification of the work force. Similarly with women, they’ve been “pushed” and more often than not they’ve not been up to it. It dilutes a talent pool, some ethnic or female colleges have made it off their own merit and because of that they enjoy respect etc, ones that get pushed just cause resentment. 

equality is equality, I agree you can’t discriminate but I disagree with quotas or initiatives that push one over another because of race. A good example is Asians having to achieve better scores to get into Harvard in the US, that’s not fair. 

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I've taken racist abuse from people at school, felt different and felt threatened by being different skin colour. But I've never felt like the powers that be (whether public or private entities) were racist towards me, or that any oppurtunities were blocked because of my race. I've never felt disadvantaged because of my race but I've definitely felt unwanted in a hostile environment because of my race. I feel people need to understand the nuance of that dichotomy. 

See above about the N word. I do remember as 18 year olds as a gang of 10 lads 2 black 8 White the black lads would get searched a lot more on club doors etc but that’s individual prejudice of doormen rather than systemic. 

Although aged 18-20 almost all the drug dealers I knew were black, still are in Brum tbh. 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

See above, although I would ask why it’s ok for him to call me names etc and not me to call him stuff? I never see you police that? I think it’s because you’re more sympathetic to his opinion than mine. He constantly stereotypes me as some kind of NF / EDL twat, I’m not offended by it as I’m not like that. But it does show bias, because you have no issue with that kind of profiling presumably. 

It's not okay.

In my opinion (whether anyone else says it or not is beside the point) you do come across like that . You know we've had our disagreements before so whether SC says it or not is irrelevant. 

Not about bias but if someone reports something because they've taken offence to it, we'll look in to it, right? As much as you don't get offended by it you do often make a point about it. You don't get to decide who is offended or not by the words you speak. But it also comes across that you'll not give a shit about that. Just because you aren't offended by something doesn't mean other members have that same level of it. Or that they should either. 

[Stan]

Also, this is the prick that allegedly is responsible for the banner... 

No wonder Burnley want rid of him. 

[RandoEFC+]

5 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

I will say I'm sorry to everyone that I've been an absolute shithouse recently. 

I'm just feeling outrageously frustrated with everything at the moment. 

It's a rough time at the moment mate. Getting it off your chest on here is probably better than doing so around your family or people you actually see every day. I doubt many people that post here, as outraged as they might react to some of the things that are said probably don't give two shits about any of it the moment they close their phone or laptop.

1 hour ago, Stan said:

my point was more that Rando fancied including me and almost inferred as if I've not experienced any racism along with 'some white guys on an Internet forum'. Maybe got the wrong end of the stick but it perplexed me a little when I read his post. 

This wasn't what I meant. I was more drawing attention to the fact that even with you included there isn't a whole lot of diversity in the participants in this discussion.

40 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I’ve had abuse been spat on called “white fuck” and told to leave an area by a gang of Pakistani lads. The predominant  feeling was fear initially because I was worried I’d get a kicking. 

Whites are discriminated against now though systemically in the UK in my opinion.  I think any kind of positive discrimination is discrimination no matter how you cut it, I know we’ve taken on poor quality candidates because of pressure for diversification of the work force. Similarly with women, they’ve been “pushed” and more often than not they’ve not been up to it. It dilutes a talent pool, some ethnic or female colleges have made it off their own merit and because of that they enjoy respect etc, ones that get pushed just cause resentment. 

equality is equality, I agree you can’t discriminate but I disagree with quotas or initiatives that push one over another because of race. A good example is Asians having to achieve better scores to get into Harvard in the US, that’s not fair. 

These things aren't (*sighs*) black and white. There are always exceptions on both sides. On average we clearly have the better deal but it doesn't mean that every single white person lives a more privileged life than every single person that belongs to a minority group.

As for the positive discrimination thing, it's a bad band aid for the systemic racism that precedes it. Employers will pretty much always want to employ the most qualified person for a role with the increasingly rare exceptions who might hold some prejudice. If it's still the case that white men still happen to end up being the ones best-qualified for certain jobs, and it is, then there's an issue that goes much deeper. It's the thousands of daily interactions and opportunities throughout their lives that gives a white bloke a better path to maximising their career prospects than his black or female counterpart. The focus needs to be on making sure that everyone has the same opportunities throughout their education and early careers to reach that peak level of competence rather than ignoring the disparity of those opportunities and just papering over the cracks when it comes to the end goal of a job interview by forcing employers to have a quota of how many women or how many Asian people or whatever that they have to employ.

[Stan]

27 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This wasn't what I meant. I was more drawing attention to the fact that even with you included there isn't a whole lot of diversity in the participants in this discussion.

Fair enough. 

[RandoEFC+]

19 minutes ago, Stan said:

Fair enough. 

My apologies if I caused any offence, I wasn't trying to play down racism faced by other groups but I can see how I worded it quite clumsily.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

My apologies if I caused any offence, I wasn't trying to play down racism faced by other groups but I can see how I worded it quite clumsily.

All good mate

[Honey Honey]

A banner paid for by a far-right group and a couple who post racist shite online. Playing devil's advocate here, what's wrong with that? Just like to hear some opinions 

Howay ffs

[Mpache]

41 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

A banner paid for by a far-right group and a couple who post racist shite online. Playing devil's advocate here, what's wrong with that? Just like to hear some opinions 

Howay ffs

The banner is embarrassing and made by privileged people who don't understand racism, but also playing devils advocate, could be just people who are sick of those taking advantage of the situation to fit their agenda.

Personally I think the whole campaign has been taken a step too far. I got criticized for not saying anything on Twitter, saying I have no solidarity, etc. when in reality I couldn't really care about talking politics. Doesn't mean I think the world should go on as it is.

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Mpache said:

The banner is embarrassing and made by privileged people who don't understand racism, but also playing devils advocate, could be just people who are sick of those taking advantage of the situation to fit their agenda.

Personally I think the whole campaign has been taken a step too far. I got criticized for not saying anything on Twitter, saying I have no solidarity, etc. when in reality I couldn't really care about talking politics. Doesn't mean I think the world should go on as it is.

I was taking the piss