Aston Villa Discussion

[Dave]

 

 

[Reluctant Striker]

Some of the injuries & suspensions have been adding up recently. Pau & Kamara very pivotal to the defensive part of the team. They have felt like big absences in recent games. I would like to see Konsa & Pau back at CB, with Kamara returning, soon. Other combinations feel weaker. Hopefully injury prone Moreno can stay fit with Digne out. Or we may end up seeing Pau or Lenglet as LB-CB.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Reluctant Striker

[Reluctant Striker]

The badge story keeps rolling on. The 80's-early 90's round badge has only been used on current season kits & clothing. And a new one, for the 150th anniversary year is now set to be released. Based on responses & feedback on the round badge.

Rumours are now floating around of next seasons badge being a sharp return to a very recently familiar looking big yellow lion in a blue background crest.

And more shockingly some fan representatives now taking concerns to The FA..

[Reluctant Striker]

Sad for Castore. But it was a ridiculous problem & terrible look for a company trying to build up an image. Not sure they recover & grow as a football kit option. Apparently Newcastle are exiting their Castore deal too.

But, years after deciding it was never happening, I do look forward to seeing Adidas design 3 stripe claret & blue Villa shirts. And all the away, 3rd, keepers, training tops, etc. Hope they put some effort in.

[Reluctant Striker]

Leander Dendoncker to Napoli on loan, with option to buy for around 10m Euro's. Good business, and rumours are Villa academy product Tim Iroegbunam could be set for that 3rd DM spot in the squad. If McGinn & Tielemans are not dropped back there.

Kosta Nedeljkovic as an 18 year old right back with a high bar protential from Red Star for undisclosed, but mooted to be around £10m, also seems smart business.

Via one of the numerous fan-podcast shows on YouTube (UTV) I encountered a finance expert suggesting Villa's typical match day revenue is around £16m. While Man United's is around £130m. Among many other mind boggling gaps with numerous clubs. He was also critical of the choice to not redevelop the North Stand (the behind the goal that isn't The Holte End)

An alternate show (Holy Trinity) suggesting that maybe some faith should go toward the owners & the staff they are setting in place. But, I do remember the Randy Lerner years. I was buzzing as we assembled a midfield of Young, Milner, Barry, Downing. To see them all sold on, as we apparently hit a wall & replaced them with Charles N'Zogbia, among other significantly lower quality players.

The financial stuff is a worry. Whichever way you look at things. In terms of a season like this becoming an expected & regular thing. Which for many fans, is the objective. And a return to a living memory.

[Reluctant Striker]

Slow January for everyone it seems, but Villa picking up pace, in a restrained way I was expecting, particularly after Unai's hints.

Red Star Belgrade's 18 year old RB Nedeljkovic has signed up, but stays with RSB until actually joining up with Villa in the summer.

Arsenal teenage LB, Lino Sousa supposed to joining.

2 of my boxes ticked there.

23 year old Australia goalkeeper Joe Gauci close to signing. Many do feel an upgrade on number 2 Robin Olsen is another ideal box ticker.

And, the biggest, perhaps straight to first team action, seems Morgan Rogers from Middlesbrough. Born in the West Midlands & was very keen for the move. Sounds like he could play where Jacob Ramsey (with ongoing injury problems) would play. Buendia is nearing his return. They have used McGinn & Tielemans over on the left. For some reason I don't quite understand we haven't seen Bailey or Diaby as old fashioned left footed left wingers. So Rogers arrival & Buendia's return should start freeing McGinn & Tielemans as deeper midfield covers-competition.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Reluctant Striker said:

Slow January for everyone it seems, but Villa picking up pace, in a restrained way I was expecting, particularly after Unai's hints.

Red Star Belgrade's 18 year old RB Nedeljkovic has signed up, but stays with RSB until actually joining up with Villa in the summer.

Arsenal teenage LB, Lino Sousa supposed to joining.

2 of my boxes ticked there.

23 year old Australia goalkeeper Joe Gauci close to signing. Many do feel an upgrade on number 2 Robin Olsen is another ideal box ticker.

And, the biggest, perhaps straight to first team action, seems Morgan Rogers from Middlesbrough. Born in the West Midlands & was very keen for the move. Sounds like he could play where Jacob Ramsey (with ongoing injury problems) would play. Buendia is nearing his return. They have used McGinn & Tielemans over on the left. For some reason I don't quite understand we haven't seen Bailey or Diaby as old fashioned left footed left wingers. So Rogers arrival & Buendia's return should start freeing McGinn & Tielemans as deeper midfield covers-competition.

Rogers is a decent signing. Middlesbrough's loss definitely Villa's gain there.

 

[Dave]

 

 

[Reluctant Striker]

There were fan groups contacting the FA too, specifically about the 150th anniversary badge plans. And many split opinions on this Chris Heck changing most decisions set in place before he had arrived. The Badge changing. The North Stand redevelopment delayed. And more.

Centre back injuries now building. Mings out since 1st match. Pau Torres on bench the last 2 games, after injury problems. Konsa out for a few weeks. And now Diego Carlos injured. So, heading into Fulham (a) it's on loan Lenglet, the frozen out Chambers & gradually returning Pau Torres. Getting dangerously near an emergency - crisis.

Then add that Kamara is out with his 2nd long term injury in the last 2 years, and it's either young Tim Iroegbunam next to Douglas Luiz, or dropping McGinn or Tielemans deep.

[6666]

Aston Villa report £119.6m loss for 22-23 season - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68476722

Could be in trouble soon.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Aston Villa report £119.6m loss for 22-23 season - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68476722

Could be in trouble soon.

Shame that non top-six clubs seem to suffer more than top six clubs when it comes to this kind of thing.

They can try and break the top 6 but they get punished. Who do they end up selling their best player(s) to? Top 6 clubs. How are they ever meant to compete? The rules are skewed so much that it'll become impossible for a non-top six club to ever have sustained success any more.

[6666]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Shame that non top-six clubs seem to suffer more than top six clubs when it comes to this kind of thing.

They can try and break the top 6 but they get punished. Who do they end up selling their best player(s) to? Top 6 clubs. How are they ever meant to compete? The rules are skewed so much that it'll become impossible for a non-top six club to ever have sustained success any more.

The main issue is that the loss limit is outdated. £105m in 2015 is not the same as £105m right now in football. Transfer fees for players went up significantly in that time. Diaby on his own cost Aston Villa over £50m.

[RandoEFC+]

They're changing the limit to almost double from this summer I believe.

[Reluctant Striker]

Yes, it's confusing to know what to make of it all. To me, it doesn't feel they've been splashing around crazy money. In 2023/24, Diaby the one £50m+. Pau was £30m+. Plenty of academy players sold.

The owners are stating this 2022/23 news is just all part of the plan. But certainly growing concern we may be one of the 1st clubs to get Champions League football & be in a position that we have to sell 1 or 2 star players. To bring in lower value signings. And avoid any points deduction.

Presumably it's getting into the problem of Villa not selling out as many directors boxes, pre match dining, etc. Which is having more options being made available at Villa Park. And of course sponsorship. Global merchandise sales.

Oddly, even with a 10 point deduction right now, they'd still be 6th & 1 point ahead of Man United. Which again, for me, just questions where is the reward for doing well?

[Stan]

44 minutes ago, Reluctant Striker said:

Yes, it's confusing to know what to make of it all. To me, it doesn't feel they've been splashing around crazy money. In 2023/24, Diaby the one £50m+. Pau was £30m+. Plenty of academy players sold.

The owners are stating this 2022/23 news is just all part of the plan. But certainly growing concern we may be one of the 1st clubs to get Champions League football & be in a position that we have to sell 1 or 2 star players. To bring in lower value signings. And avoid any points deduction.

Presumably it's getting into the problem of Villa not selling out as many directors boxes, pre match dining, etc. Which is having more options being made available at Villa Park. And of course sponsorship. Global merchandise sales.

Oddly, even with a 10 point deduction right now, they'd still be 6th & 1 point ahead of Man United. Which again, for me, just questions where is the reward for doing well?

Exactly - the reward is actually punishment in the long term.

[Stan]

Great news for Villa.

Emery extends contract til 2027.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyddj6z8ro

[Reluctant Striker]

Well, in the end Villa did the opposite to West Ham. Lost out in Europe's 3rd tier competition, but secured a place in the top tier one for next season. Overall can not complain one bit.

Unai Emery has worked small miracles since day one & hopefully he can continue doing so.

I did however always imagine if Villa ever got 4th or better, we would somehow be in a position to sign blatantly elite players. To try & push on further. The reality seems to be continuing rumours of perhaps deciding it's necessary to sell a Jacob Ramsey, Douglas Luiz, Ollie Watkins, etc, etc. And our first incoming signing is being widely rumoured as 30 year old Ross Barkley on a free. Who has had a decent season. Had been rumoured for other clubs. But.. doesn't feel like a Top 4 signing.

Hoping the club do find a way to build on the brilliant efforts of Emery & these players. That Buendia & Mings hopefully make full & successful returns next season. That the few youthful January signings can contribute. And of course that Adidas come up with a few gems of kit designs for next season. 

[Dave]

 

[Dave]

Villa are having a great go of getting as much wrong as they can away from the playing side.

 

[RandoEFC+]

This is the natural next step to PSR. If you want to spend money to compete then you have to make more money. How do football clubs make more money? Bleeding their fans even more dry is one method. 

[Dave]

 

 

[Reluctant Striker]

2 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

Villa are having a great go of getting as much wrong as they can away from the playing side.

 

 

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

This is the natural next step to PSR. If you want to spend money to compete then you have to make more money. How do football clubs make more money? Bleeding their fans even more dry is one method. 

I just can't see us competing with the likes of Spurs, Chelsea & Arsenal for that sort of thing. Part of the problem with Villa is we just don't have that sort of fan base. A season ticket? A shirt or 2? That's about the limit for the vast majority. Unless they can attract in 'new' fans.

[Fairy In Boots]

9 hours ago, Reluctant Striker said:

 

I just can't see us competing with the likes of Spurs, Chelsea & Arsenal for that sort of thing. Part of the problem with Villa is we just don't have that sort of fan base. A season ticket? A shirt or 2? That's about the limit for the vast majority. Unless they can attract in 'new' fans.

Spurs don’t have the kind of fanbase, not in the U.K. anyway it’s more the international fans that you get from being a champions league club year in year out. We need 2-3 years to sustain and close the gap. 
 

V sports that own us are wrath of god money now, we could sustain loses for a decade, need to box clever and play within the rules but you can already see NSWE are getting frustrated and looks like we’ll go the city route and start that fight. I disagree with city and I don’t think it’s healthy for football at all, the purist in me wants no closed shop at the top and the ability for teams to ride and fall on sporting merit.
 

Don’t think it will happen now the cat is out of the bag now. This is perfect for City and their fight with the PL as they have done wrong but it’s another headache which will likely mean the PL amends demands long term and that benefits city.
To be a fly on the wall at PL administration right now 

[RandoEFC+]

10 hours ago, Reluctant Striker said:

 

I just can't see us competing with the likes of Spurs, Chelsea & Arsenal for that sort of thing. Part of the problem with Villa is we just don't have that sort of fan base. A season ticket? A shirt or 2? That's about the limit for the vast majority. Unless they can attract in 'new' fans.

I just think you'll see more and more of this now. Wolves have just had a clash with one of their supporter groups already this summer as well about ticket prices.

It's going on with Everton too. All the talk is that even though the new stadium will be bigger, the club will have to reduce the number of season ticket holders as well as increasing the price of them "so that we can compete financially". I think we have the highest percentage in the league at the moment of match tickets being season tickets. The problem from a commercial perspective is that season tickets are cheaper per game than the seats that go on general sale.

In the past you could have been loyal to your fanbase and sustained losses if your owners have enough money or if you can find investment. PSR now means that clubs are going to have to squeeze every last drop of income from what they've decided are "legitimate" sources such as match-day income and merchandising, so welcome to the era of loyal, match-going fans being priced out of seeing their team play and buying kits for their kids.

59 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Spurs don’t have the kind of fanbase, not in the U.K. anyway it’s more the international fans that you get from being a champions league club year in year out. We need 2-3 years to sustain and close the gap. 
 

V sports that own us are wrath of god money now, we could sustain loses for a decade, need to box clever and play within the rules but you can already see NSWE are getting frustrated and looks like we’ll go the city route and start that fight. I disagree with city and I don’t think it’s healthy for football at all, the purist in me wants no closed shop at the top and the ability for teams to ride and fall on sporting merit.
 

Don’t think it will happen now the cat is out of the bag now. This is perfect for City and their fight with the PL as they have done wrong but it’s another headache which will likely mean the PL amends demands long term and that benefits city.
To be a fly on the wall at PL administration right now 

It'll take a lot for Villa to get remotely close to even Spurs' global following and branding, let alone the rest of the rich clubs. Same with Newcastle. I don't even think 2-3 years of qualifying for the Champions League again and again would necessarily bridge the gap. Every time a new team enters that "global status" group, there's less of the market left for any new clubs to get a slice of it. Man City and PSG are the most recent ones in there to crowd the market, there's only so much "space".

How Villa or Newcastle are supposed to sustain a few years as a top four club under the current rules is beyond me though.

It is a closed shop as long as these rules are in place. The PSR rules, in theory, are fine. Nobody wants to see Newcastle buy their way from battling relegation to winning trophies in 3 years in a totally plastic fashion like we've seen in the past. The problem is the things that are allowed to count towards your PSR calculations massively favour those global clubs and mean that Man Utd and Chelsea can afford to waste hundreds of millions in the transfer market every year while the likes of Aston Villa or Brighton can get good value out of almost every transfer they make and still be a thousand miles away from competing financially. The types of income that allow the elite clubs to spend loads of money can't be attained without building a football club in the first place and if you're not already making that level of income, the rules don't permit you to spend the money you need to build the club.

If they just massively limited the amount of sponsorship and merchandising income that those clubs make that counts towards your PSR profits, then Chelsea and Man Utd and any other rich club would actually face sporting consequences for being run like a circus and there'd be room for Aston Villa, Newcastle or whoever else to move into the top 4 positions and stay there as long as they continue to earn it each year. It's not that difficult to fix. It's just a matter of motivation.

[Fairy In Boots]

29 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I just think you'll see more and more of this now. Wolves have just had a clash with one of their supporter groups already this summer as well about ticket prices.

It's going on with Everton too. All the talk is that even though the new stadium will be bigger, the club will have to reduce the number of season ticket holders as well as increasing the price of them "so that we can compete financially". I think we have the highest percentage in the league at the moment of match tickets being season tickets. The problem from a commercial perspective is that season tickets are cheaper per game than the seats that go on general sale.

In the past you could have been loyal to your fanbase and sustained losses if your owners have enough money or if you can find investment. PSR now means that clubs are going to have to squeeze every last drop of income from what they've decided are "legitimate" sources such as match-day income and merchandising, so welcome to the era of loyal, match-going fans being priced out of seeing their team play and buying kits for their kids.

It'll take a lot for Villa to get remotely close to even Spurs' global following and branding, let alone the rest of the rich clubs. Same with Newcastle. I don't even think 2-3 years of qualifying for the Champions League again and again would necessarily bridge the gap. Every time a new team enters that "global status" group, there's less of the market left for any new clubs to get a slice of it. Man City and PSG are the most recent ones in there to crowd the market, there's only so much "space".

How Villa or Newcastle are supposed to sustain a few years as a top four club under the current rules is beyond me though.

It is a closed shop as long as these rules are in place. The PSR rules, in theory, are fine. Nobody wants to see Newcastle buy their way from battling relegation to winning trophies in 3 years in a totally plastic fashion like we've seen in the past. The problem is the things that are allowed to count towards your PSR calculations massively favour those global clubs and mean that Man Utd and Chelsea can afford to waste hundreds of millions in the transfer market every year while the likes of Aston Villa or Brighton can get good value out of almost every transfer they make and still be a thousand miles away from competing financially. The types of income that allow the elite clubs to spend loads of money can't be attained without building a football club in the first place and if you're not already making that level of income, the rules don't permit you to spend the money you need to build the club.

If they just massively limited the amount of sponsorship and merchandising income that those clubs make that counts towards your PSR profits, then Chelsea and Man Utd and any other rich club would actually face sporting consequences for being run like a circus and there'd be room for Aston Villa, Newcastle or whoever else to move into the top 4 positions and stay there as long as they continue to earn it each year. It's not that difficult to fix. It's just a matter of motivation.

Nah I think perception and challenging is enough to grow as a brand, let’s face it Spurs won nothing but have grown off the back of Poch era, I don’t think they will have added new fans at the same rate in the last few years. In fairness they also have a great stadium which has helped them increase revenue massively. We are planning to expand Villa park as well.