Football Manager is Racist

[Bluebird Hewitt]

It's official. Football Manager is accused of racial profiling after editing its player database. 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-07-02-football-manager-developer-denies-newspaper-claim-it-edited-its-player-database-after-accusations-of-racial-profiling

We might as well not bother doing anything now. 

[Mpache]

I fully support the BLM campaign and equality in the world, but this is taking it a bit too far really, trying to find racial undertones in anything. It actually almost makes me root for Trump.

[Eco]

Just now, Mpache said:

I fully support the BLM campaign and equality in the world, but this is taking it a bit too far really, trying to find racial undertones in anything. It actually almost makes me root for Trump.

[Stan]

56 minutes ago, Mpache said:

I fully support the BLM campaign and equality in the world, but this is taking it a bit too far really, trying to find racial undertones in anything. It actually almost makes me root for Trump.

Yawn.

[Mpache]

12 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yawn.

That's racist mate. Gotta be more careful 

[RandoEFC+]

My only contribution here is that no matter how "ridiculous" and "political correctness gone mad" this sort of thing is, if you're more bothered by attempts to challenge potential racism, even the silly ones, than you are by actual racism, then you need to reassess your priorities.

I mean, how much is it really affecting your life if someone thinks that a game's made up algorithms might be guilty of perpetuating racial stereotypes?

If FM generates black or African players that have a better chance of being fast or strong than their white, European counterparts, am I going to lose sleep over that? No. If someone points it out, am I going to lose sleep over it? Also no.

It's funny when you step back and observe this recent resurgence in people getting offended by other people being offended. I know this is more of a discussion than anyone really being arsed, but I'm making a wider point. Nobody has used the word in this thread, but if you think someone is being a snowflake because they don't like something like the algorithms in a game's database, do you become the snowflake if you're bothered enough about it to go on an internet forum and start a thread about how ridiculous it is that someone you've never met is offended by a glorified spreadsheet?

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

My only contribution here is that no matter how "ridiculous" and "political correctness gone mad" this sort of thing is, if you're more bothered by attempts to challenge potential racism, even the silly ones, than you are by actual racism, then you need to reassess your priorities.

I mean, how much is it really affecting your life if someone thinks that a game's made up algorithms might be guilty of perpetuating racial stereotypes?

If FM generates black or African players that have a better chance of being fast or strong than their white, European counterparts, am I going to lose sleep over that? No. If someone points it out, am I going to lose sleep over it? Also no.

It's funny when you step back and observe this recent resurgence in people getting offended by other people being offended. I know this is more of a discussion than anyone really being arsed, but I'm making a wider point. Nobody has used the word in this thread, but if you think someone is being a snowflake because they don't like something like the algorithms in a game's database, do you become the snowflake if you're bothered enough about it to go on an internet forum and start a thread about how ridiculous it is that someone you've never met is offended by a glorified spreadsheet?

I've been racially abused mate a bunch of times, it's not like I'm entirely privileged either. The whole Trump comment was aimed at political correctness gone mad as you put it and was an exaggeration.

Racism is not OK, but everyone is expected to speak up, and some people just don't want to.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

My only contribution here is that no matter how "ridiculous" and "political correctness gone mad" this sort of thing is, if you're more bothered by attempts to challenge potential racism, even the silly ones, than you are by actual racism, then you need to reassess your priorities.

I mean, how much is it really affecting your life if someone thinks that a game's made up algorithms might be guilty of perpetuating racial stereotypes?

If FM generates black or African players that have a better chance of being fast or strong than their white, European counterparts, am I going to lose sleep over that? No. If someone points it out, am I going to lose sleep over it? Also no.

It's funny when you step back and observe this recent resurgence in people getting offended by other people being offended. I know this is more of a discussion than anyone really being arsed, but I'm making a wider point. Nobody has used the word in this thread, but if you think someone is being a snowflake because they don't like something like the algorithms in a game's database, do you become the snowflake if you're bothered enough about it to go on an internet forum and start a thread about how ridiculous it is that someone you've never met is offended by a glorified spreadsheet?

Not sure if that is aimed at me or not here. 

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Not sure if that is aimed at me or not here. 

Not really. It's more just general observations that were prompted by this thread. For you specifically, I'd just say that I don't see how a non-story like this prompts the reaction "we might as well not do anything anymore". Maybe it's silly to get offended by a database but for me it's equally or more silly to let that bother you even a little bit. It's remarkably easy to let people with nothing better to do fight these battles and ignore them while you carry on with your life unimpeded.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Not really. It's more just general observations that were prompted by this thread. For you specifically, I'd just say that I don't see how a non-story like this prompts the reaction "we might as well not do anything anymore". Maybe it's silly to get offended by a database but for me it's equally or more silly to let that bother you even a little bit. It's remarkably easy to let people with nothing better to do fight these battles and ignore them while you carry on with your life unimpeded.

That was more out of frustration than anything and what I mention could go into the George Floyd thread. Sorry in advance if this doesn't read well but hopefully you get where I'm coming from with this. 

There are many things that need to be considered in regards to the treatment of black people, such as:

1. Tackling racism in the wider community across the UK, including education on racism and shining a positive light on the black communities. 

2. Tackling poverty that many black communities face when compared to others. 

3. Tackling the negative stereotypes that black people are given (for example, all black people will look to rob you) 

The journalism part of the media (to an extent) can assist with this when reporting and producing articles, such as the praise Marcus Rashford got when he got the UK Government to change stance on free school meals. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/53096253

Unfortunately, there are a fair amount of people and aspects of the media that are more interested in doing the following:

1. Instantly reacting to something that has happened, such as the removal of episodes and shows that had the slightest hint of racism, despite being readily available and viewable for some time prior to the event occurring.

2. Celebrities tweeting and apologising for things they did years ago that is now considered racist, such as Florence Pugh and having her hair in corn rows and braids. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3270209001

3. Studies picking up on 'racial bias', such as football commentators using specific words for describing different coloured players. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/study-europes-top-flight-games-22273867

Which has prompted Sky Sports to reportedly provide a list of banned words to football commentators. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sky-sports-bans-commentators-using-22288229.amp

Which leads me back to this topic and the following question. 

How does this improve the treatment of black people not just in the UK, but across the world?

How does interrogating the database of a video game (as that's what Football Manager really is at the end of the day) and analysing statistics (which can easily be manipulated and twisted to suit a narrative) for fictional players and accusing the game of racial profiling actually help in improving the treatment of black people? 

In summary, there are bigger issues and priorities that need to be addressed, but some (such as this) are more interested in nit-picking the tiniest bit of detail to create a non story about racism in some form or another rather than perform actual investigation on the matter, hence the part in bold. 

[RandoEFC+]

6 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

That was more out of frustration than anything and what I mention could go into the George Floyd thread. Sorry in advance if this doesn't read well but hopefully you get where I'm coming from with this. 

There are many things that need to be considered in regards to the treatment of black people, such as:

1. Tackling racism in the wider community across the UK, including education on racism and shining a positive light on the black communities. 

2. Tackling poverty that many black communities face when compared to others. 

3. Tackling the negative stereotypes that black people are given (for example, all black people will look to rob you) 

The journalism part of the media (to an extent) can assist with this when reporting and producing articles, such as the praise Marcus Rashford got when he got the UK Government to change stance on free school meals. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/53096253

Unfortunately, there are a fair amount of people and aspects of the media that are more interested in doing the following:

1. Instantly reacting to something that has happened, such as the removal of episodes and shows that had the slightest hint of racism, despite being readily available and viewable for some time prior to the event occurring.

2. Celebrities tweeting and apologising for things they did years ago that is now considered racist, such as Florence Pugh and having her hair in corn rows and braids. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3270209001

3. Studies picking up on 'racial bias', such as football commentators using specific words for describing different coloured players. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/study-europes-top-flight-games-22273867

Which has prompted Sky Sports to reportedly provide a list of banned words to football commentators. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sky-sports-bans-commentators-using-22288229.amp

Which leads me back to this topic and the following question. 

How does this improve the treatment of black people not just in the UK, but across the world?

How does interrogating the database of a video game (as that's what Football Manager really is at the end of the day) and analysing statistics (which can easily be manipulated and twisted to suit a narrative) for fictional players and accusing the game of racial profiling actually help in improving the treatment of black people? 

In summary, there are bigger issues and priorities that need to be addressed, but some (such as this) are more interested in nit-picking the tiniest bit of detail to create a non story about racism in some form or another rather than perform actual investigation on the matter, hence the part in bold. 

I totally get what you're saying. I think mostly you've got a country full of people who genuinely aren't racist and want to do something about systemic racism which is where the conversation has turned now. Some people are doing this to allay their own misplaced guilt but generally hearts are in the right place. I'm also with you that focusing on relatively (but not always totally) silly nonsense like this instead of tackling the more immediate issues can be counterproductive as it switches some people off the whole conversation who you may otherwise manage to engage positively in it.

I think stories like this come from people who want to tackle the racism left in our society but either don't know what to do or don't have the power individually to actually do much at all. I still sort of sympathise with them but also choose to ignore them at the same time. While it doesn't really solve anything to go back and take down episodes of TV or old tweets or videos and apologise for them, I find it hard to criticise people who are trying to reflect on how they can take more individual responsibility in the fight against racism.

For me, recent events have impacted my view on things to stop trying to judge what is and isn't racist because let's face it, I'm a white male and I've never had to deal with it. I just don't know enough about it so I'll leave squabbles over the Football Manager database to people who do understand it. To me it's just noise. All we can do is reflect on our own behaviour, past and present, and try to be more aware of the subconscious judgements we all make of people based on their appearance, including their race. For more significant change to happen, there needs to be a movement with real leadership, preferably from people like Raheem Sterling, Lewis Hamilton etc. who have actually seen both sides of it. Black Lives Matter won't cut through because the organisation has too many extreme views that will switch people off their underlying, very important message. Until a viable alternative appears I think the best thing to do for me is focus on what I can control and not try to weigh in on the debate over what is and isn't racist because frankly I'm totally unqualified to do so.