World Cup 2018: Russia - General Chat

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

They are all saying that he deserves to play the world cup and are sad for him because its his dream. I can understand he made a mistake but he lead us to this world cup and its normal for us to side with him regardless if he was wrong or not. If it was anyone else we wouldn't have been as defensive.

Don’t you see one thing has nothing to do with the other?

I’ll give you an example:

Someone that works for me in my department and I value as the best member of my team by a long margin goes and commits a crime...  I can’t then say that he should keep his job, try to get him out of being judged by a justice system which cares not for his value in his work place and is simply judging him on a singular action aside from any other factor in his private life which in this case includes his value at work.

How can I side with him on something that has nothing to do with what he offers me at work, Monday to Friday, 9 to 5?

One thing has nothing to do with the other and if you are saying that because he is of such value for me that the justice system should look in another direction and allow him to do whatever he wants, then you are a moron, and so are any others that feel that way.  For me to feel that way would mean I am suffering from desperation and also, it would mean that I am also of no value for my company because OBVIOUSLY the one that matters is that particular team member alone.

Maradona is my all time footballing idol... As a person he was a prick, when he got caught taking drugs at a World Cup he was subsequently and correctly expelled from it. That he was an iconic figure for his nation’s football, that he was providing just by his mere presence, a boosting mental factor for his colleagues every match-day at the tournament is by the by. The rules are the same for everyone in every walk of life and there should be no exceptions.  Only a stupid Argentinian would’ve contemplated Maradona being pardoned and exempt from the same rules as everyone else... Infact I would’ve expected every Argentinian to have blamed him and only him for his stupidity and that the punishment was just and should be told so publicly by all. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Don’t you see one thing has nothing to do with the other?

I’ll give you an example:

Someone that works for me in my department and I value as the best member of my team by a long margin goes and commits a crime...  I can’t then say that he should keep his job, try to get him out of being judged by a justice system which cares not for his value in his work place and is simply judging him on a singular action aside from any other factor in his private life which in this case includes his value at work.

How can I side with him on something that has nothing to do with what he offers me at work, Monday to Friday, 9 to 5?

One thing has nothing to do with the other and if you are saying that because he is of such value for me that the justice system should look in another direction and allow him to do whatever he wants, then you are a moron, and so are any others that feel that way.  For me to feel that way would mean I am suffering from desperation and also, it would mean that I am also of no value for my company because OBVIOUSLY the one that matters is that particular team member alone.

Maradona is my all time footballing idol... As a person he was a prick, when he got caught taking drugs at a World Cup he was subsequently and correctly expelled from it. That he was an iconic figure for his nation’s football, that he was providing just by his mere presence, a boosting mental factor for his colleagues every match-day at the tournament is by the by. The rules are the same for everyone in every walk of life and there should be no exceptions.  Only a stupid Argentinian would’ve contemplated Maradona being pardoned and exempt from the same rules as everyone else... Infact I would’ve expected every Argentinian to have blamed him and only him for his stupidity and that the punishment was just and should be told so publicly by all. 

It doesn't matter what you think of it. Everyone here is siding him for what he's done for us. You always criticize me for not having the same opinions as those in Naples, and yet you're trying to prove the nation wrong on this?

We aren't always like this either. People here love Teofilo Cubillas but blamed him for the team being shocking at the 1982 world cup in a similar manner to Maradona in 1994. Its a matter of how recent the event was and in this case, he brought us to our first world cup in 36 years... how on earth can we criticize him?

Have you seen how many players we are beginning to export? 7 years ago there was one Peruvian in the Liga MX and that was Johan Fano. Now there are 5, and there are about 5 or 6 more that are going to get moves. An 18 year old Marco Saravia just got a move to Gremio and overall we are beginning to gain credibility as a football nation and that's what we've so long needed. You can't just look at the fact he got suspended and that it was his fault and he'll miss the world cup. He lead us to the world cup and its basically going to change us as a football nation for the next couple years...

Any Peruvian that blames him is an idiot.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

It doesn't matter what you think of it. Everyone here is siding him for what he's done for us. You always criticize me for not having the same opinions as those in Naples, and yet you're trying to prove the nation wrong on this?

We aren't always like this either. People here love Teofilo Cubillas but blamed him for the team being shocking at the 1982 world cup in a similar manner to Maradona in 1994. Its a matter of how recent the event was and in this case, he brought us to our first world cup in 36 years... how on earth can we criticize him?

Have you seen how many players we are beginning to export? 7 years ago there was one Peruvian in the Liga MX and that was Johan Fano. Now there are 5, and there are about 5 or 6 more that are going to get moves. An 18 year old Marco Saravia just got a move to Gremio and overall we are beginning to gain credibility as a football nation and that's what we've so long needed. You can't just look at the fact he got suspended and that it was his fault and he'll miss the world cup. He lead us to the world cup and its basically going to change us as a football nation for the next couple years...

Any Peruvian that blames him is an idiot.

You’re talking absolute nonsense and you have a difficult time understanding things when they are something other than what you believe. I don’t care if Perú are all desperate and think the same. My statements to you on Napoli and how Neapolitans think where their football team is concerned has nothing to do with this case, so don’t use demagoguery on me.

Also, Maradona wasn’t blamed for having a shit World Cup... He was accused and expelled for taking drugs in a World Cup where he was playing well and nobody thought it was wrong for him being thrown out of the tournament... Anyone who thought it was wrong is an idiot.

Don’t use my words to then go on a tangent and manipulate them to your benefit. Read what I write and don’t interpret what you want so as to use it. I have written clearly what I mean, just before and all that you have used in the Napoli discussions of the past.

How about this...

Perú and Preuvians can think what they like, but this is a WORLD Cup discussion which includes the rest of the world and their opinion is valid in this case. I would expect that the rest of that world think Guerrero should be punished like any other footballer would.

Answer me this... What makes him different to anyone else that he should be treated differently?

Also this...

What reasoning can you offer for him to be treated in a different light to Maradona? Maradona was a football god and he didn’t get a reprieve! Who is Guerrero to be measured with the same yard stick? Nobody!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You’re talking absolute nonsense and you have a difficult time understanding things when they are something other than what you believe. I don’t care if Preú are all desperate and think the same. My statements to you on Napoli and how Neapolitans think where their football team is concerned has nothing to do with this case, so don’t use demagoguery on me.

Also, Maradona wasn’t blamed for having a shit World Cup... He was accused and expelled for taking drugs in a World Cup where he was playing well and nobody thought is was wrong for him being thrown out of the tournament... Anyone who thought is was wrong is an idiot.

Don’t use my words to then go on a tangent and manipulate them to your benefit. Read what I write and don’t interpret what you want so as to use it. I have written clearly what I mean, just before and all that you have used in the Napoli discussions of the past.

How about this...

Perú and Preuvians can think what they like, but this is a WORLD Cup discussion which includes the rest of the world and their opinion is valid in this case. I would expect that the rest of that world think Guerrero should be punished like any other footballer would.

Answer me this... What makes him different to anyone else that he should be treated differently?

Also this...

What reasoning can you offer for him to he treated in a different light to Maradona? Maradona was a football god and he didn’t get a reprieve! Who is Guerrero measured with the same yard stick? Nobody!

I think you'll find that you're talking nonsense. And yes, I'm using that demagoguery on you because you look silly given you care about being among the locals yet you don't care in this stage.

I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. I care about the people who followed Peru's world cup campaign and know how important this qualification was to us as a nation, and I'm not just simply talking about Peruvians. Just anyone who followed the World Cup campaign. Anyone who hasn't, I can't take their opinions seriously. We've waited 36 years and what Paolo has done for us and the faith he's given us, we're not going to turn on him just because he made a mistake.

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

I think you'll find that you're talking nonsense. And yes, I'm using that demagoguery on you because you look silly given you care about being among the locals yet you don't care in this stage.

I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. I care about the people who followed Peru's world cup campaign and know how important this qualification was to us as a nation, and I'm not just simply talking about Peruvians. Just anyone who followed the World Cup campaign. Anyone who hasn't, I can't take their opinions seriously. We've waited 36 years and what Paolo has done for us and the faith he's given us, we're not going to turn on him just because he made a mistake.

I’m not going to explain because you can go to my previous post to find out why you’re an idiot.

You are unfortunate because in this case Brian, everyone has a valid and just opinion on this case. It’s not domestic, it’s a world football issue and the rest of us are part of the world too.

If Maradona (like many other footballers before and since) was punished... Guerrero should be to and I hope he is properly. He is also an idiot!

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

I’m not going to explain because you can go to my previous post to find out why you’re an idiot.

You are unfortunate because in this case Brian, everyone has a valid and just opinion on this case. It’s not domestic, it’s a world football issue and the rest of us are part of the world too.

If Maradona (like many other footballers before and since) was punished... Guerrero should be to and I hope he is properly. He is also an idiot!

People can have an opinion all they like on this matter, but if they are going to call him a cheater and an idiot without having seen a single Peru game in their lives then I'm not going to take it seriously.

In fact calling him an idiot is one of the most clueless and retarted things I've ever read on the internet. He is one of the most likeable players in football. Your opinions are your own but if you are going to call him an idiot at least have a base other than just "he cheated" in a game where Peru were pinned in their own half anyways.

Chile have been the most hated team in South America for the past 5 years for their provocative tactics and how much people think the refs supported them. Do you think the Chileans give a shit? It won them 2 Copa America's. Hate them and us all you like but the locals aren't going to attack their own team if it wins them things they usually don't win.

 

[nudge+]

I wonder what the opinions of the Peruvians would have been if Peru had lost against New Zealand though, haha.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, nudge said:

I wonder what the opinions of the Peruvians would have been if Peru had lost against New Zealand though, haha.

That is actually a good question.

I couldn't answer that to you. Guerrero is one of the most likeable players in world football these days but if we had lost to New Zealand there may have been a chance some would have been angry with him.

[SirBalon]

13 minutes ago, Blue said:

People can have an opinion all they like on this matter, but if they are going to call him a cheater and an idiot without having seen a single Peru game in their lives then I'm not going to take it seriously.

In fact calling him an idiot is one of the most clueless and retarted things I've ever read on the internet. He is one of the most likeable players in football. Your opinions are your own but if you are going to call him an idiot at least have a base other than just "he cheated" in a game where Peru were pinned in their own half anyways.

Chile have been the most hated team in South America for the past 5 years for their provocative tactics and how much people think the refs supported them. Do you think the Chileans give a shit? It won them 2 Copa America's. Hate them and us all you like but the locals aren't going to attack their own team if it wins them things they usually don't win.

 

You really do have a hard time understanding letters and words... Also not forgetting what you had read previously. 

For your benefit...

He’s an idiot for doing what he did when he had no need to. Get it?

[SirBalon]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

That is actually a good question.

I couldn't answer that to you. Guerrero is one of the most likeable players in world football these days but if we had lost to New Zealand there may have been a chance some would have been angry with him.

You really are an odd guy aren’t you mate?

A few posts ago you told me about the Cubillas situation in the 82 World Cup and then you answer this because it’s true. That’s what I’ve been going on about... You can’t see it because you’re being biassed and your opinion is tainted... Blatantly tainted which means you will be a terrible football journalist. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You really do have a hard time understanding letters and words... Also not forgetting what you had read previously. 

For your benefit...

He’s an idiot for doing what he did when he had no need to. Get it?

I understood you completely.

I don't think he's an idiot, I think he made a careless decision and both he and the doctors messed up.

What you don't seem to understand is why we defend him. You compare him to Diego Maradona but the difference is he has had a reputation for cheating in the past. Paolo has had none of that before and has always been loved, even in his bad patches of form.

He's the all time Peru top scorer and lead us to a world cup almost single handedly. Why should we be angry at him? He's going to miss the world cup that's his own problem. Why should the peruvians be angry for what he did though?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You really are an odd guy aren’t you mate?

A few posts ago you told me about the Cubillas situation in the 82 World Cup and then you answer this because it’s true. That’s what I’ve been going on about... You can’t see it because you’re being biassed and your opinion is tainted... Blatantly tainted which means you will be a terrible football journalist. 

I'm already further and more respected than most professional journalists I know 

Also, there is a difference between  "tainted" and "understanding". You have a very narrow view on this matter.

[SirBalon]

Just now, Blue said:

I understood you completely.

I don't think he's an idiot, I think he made a careless decision and both he and the doctors messed up.

What you don't seem to understand is why we defend him. You compare him to Diego Maradona but the difference is he has had a reputation for cheating in the past. Paolo has had none of that before and has always been loved, even in his bad patches of form.

He's the all time Peru top scorer and lead us to a world cup almost single handedly. Why should we be angry at him?

Under nornal circumstances your past is taken into consideration when you commit a crime. Unfortunately in sport, the authorities have to set stern examples due to the fact a sportsman’s career is short lived. So when a crime is committed in sport, the punishment tends to be correctly adjusted to its means.

Why did the doctors mess up?

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Under nornal circumstances your past is taken into consideration when you commit a crime. Unfortunately in sport, the authorities have to set stern examples due to the fact a sportsman’s career is short lived. So when a crime is committed in sport, the punishment tends to be correctly adjusted to its means.

Why did the doctors mess up?

I have no idea what happened in the dressing room but I trust that Paolo didn't intentionally cheat. Its not in his nature. He's not stupid enough to think he can get away with it. I believe what happened is that the doctors gave him that and he wasn't aware it resulted in doping. That is carelessness. 

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

I'm already further and more respected than most professional journalists I know 

Also, there is a difference between  "tainted" and "understanding". You have a very narrow view on this matter.

Tainted has absolutely nothing to do with understanding... Maybe you don’t capture the English language correctly.

You are nobody in the journalistic world. Nobody! I know a number of high profile sports journalists in Latin America and they would NEVER come out with what you have come out with here. It doesn’t mean they don’t think it or hope it, but their profession is more important than their biassed view. You at most will be a local journalist selling peanuts to peanut eaters. 

[nudge+]

There's still a chance to appeal the suspension though, if he's lucky enough he might still make it to the World Cup. Wasn't Jose del Solar initially suspended for 2 years and then got it reduced to 6 months only under very similar circumstances (consuming coca tea) in the past?

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

I have no idea what happened in the dressing room but I trust that Paolo didn't intentionally cheat. Its not in his nature. He's not stupid enough to think he can get away with it. I believe what happened is that the doctors gave him that and he wasn't aware it resulted in doping. That is carelessness. 

Ever read up on the Alberto Contador scandal? 

You really need to learn a thing or two about journalism mate. 

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Tainted has absolutely nothing to do with understanding... Maybe you don’t capture the English language correctly.

You are nobody in the journalistic world. Nobody! I know a number of high profile sports journalists in Latin America and they would NEVER come out with what you have come out with here. It doesn’t mean they don’t think it or hope it, but their profession is more important than their biassed view. You at most will be a local journalist selling peanuts to peanut eaters. 

Ok, well you can have your opinion on that. Do you know why people respect my opinions are a journalist though? Because I live in Peru and they chose to believe what I say and then have a look for themselves to see that I was spot on. On the contrary to you who asks me a question, then criticizes me without actually researching or even remotely looking into the matter. Why bother asking me if you're not going to agree with it anyways?

Seriously you are a fucking idiot. I'm sorry if you don't think I'm a good journalist and have a "tainted opinion". I'm not going to quit my job or stop wasting my money on trips to stop doing what I love doing the most. Again, there is a difference between tainted and understanding the context as opposed to you who has not followed the qualifying campaign at all. I think you'll find more people will trust me than you in this matter.

I'm done here anyways. There is 0 hope into getting you to believe me no matter what argument I put out because of your vendetta. I'm just going in circles now.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, nudge said:

There's still a chance to appeal the suspension though, if he's lucky enough he might still make it to the World Cup. Wasn't Jose del Solar initially suspended for 2 years and then got it reduced to 6 months only under very similar circumstances (consuming coca tea) in the past?

I have my expectations low and have no hope of the ban getting reduced. There is a chance to appeal and Paolo is going to go for it but its best to just be surprised if it does happen because there is a higher chance of the ban staying as it is.

Jose Del Solar is an example of an idiot though. Not Guerrero.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Ok, well you can have your opinion on that. Do you know why people respect my opinions are a journalist though? Because I live in Peru and they chose to believe what I say and then have a look for themselves to see that I was spot on. On the contrary to you who asks me a question, then criticizes me without actually researching or even remotely looking into the matter. Why bother asking me if you're not going to agree with it anyways?

Seriously you are a fucking idiot. I'm sorry if you don't think I'm a good journalist and have a "tainted opinion". I'm not going to quit my job or stop wasting my money on trips to stop doing what I love doing the most. Again, there is a difference between tainted and understanding the context as opposed to you who has not followed the qualifying campaign at all. I think you'll find more people will trust me than you in this matter.

I'm done here anyways. There is 0 hope into getting you to believe me no matter what argument I put out because of your vendetta. I'm just going in circles now.

I'll forget you calling me a "fucking idiot" based on nothing but questions I've thrown at you. I'm like the Pope, I can forgive you! 

But on your last and final paragraph which is what concerned me aside from all your meaningless jargon... You don't have to make anyone believe anything. That's not what it's about... It's about answering questions and if you're a journalist, you'll know this and you shouldn't be discriminating on what the recipient takes in and decides what to agree with because that's not upto you.

As for "vendetta" ... What vendetta?  I perfectly understand your social difficulties, but you can't MAKE people agree with you.  What part of that do you find difficult to understand?

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I have my expectations low and have no hope of the ban getting reduced. There is a chance to appeal and Paolo is going to go for it but its best to just be surprised if it does happen because there is a higher chance of the ban staying as it is.

Jose Del Solar is an example of an idiot though. Not Guerrero.

Why do you feel there's a high chance of his appeal being laughed at?  If you understand this, then you'll understand why he was an idiot to ruin it all. 

[nudge+]

I don't know, if low concentration of the banned substance in his urine was typical of coca leaves and actual cocaine use was ruled out (as Guerrero's lawyers seem to suggest), then the ban is definitely too harsh and should be reduced. If that's the case and his defence team has solid evidence (I've read they did hair tests for cocaine which came out negative?), they can still go to the Court of Arbitration as last instance.

To be honest, I wouldn't trust FIFA with anything either  

 

[Guest]

Liberman saying Pizarro has a chance to go to Russia.

I wish that man can be quiet for once.

[Stan]

15 hours ago, Blue said:

That is actually a good question.

I couldn't answer that to you. Guerrero is one of the most likeable players in world football these days but if we had lost to New Zealand there may have been a chance some would have been angry with him.

literally no-one this side of the atlantic talks about him unless it's a conversation like this. 

15 hours ago, Blue said:

I'm already further and more respected than most professional journalists I know 

Also, there is a difference between  "tainted" and "understanding". You have a very narrow view on this matter.

the fucking arrogance of this. been in journalism about 5 seconds and thinks he's the dogs bollocks. 

Could be wrong but that says more about the other professional journalists you know (either you don't know very good ones either or you don't know that many). 

15 hours ago, Blue said:

I understood you completely.

I don't think he's an idiot, I think he made a careless decision and both he and the doctors messed up.

What you don't seem to understand is why we defend him. You compare him to Diego Maradona but the difference is he has had a reputation for cheating in the past. Paolo has had none of that before and has always been loved, even in his bad patches of form.

He's the all time Peru top scorer and lead us to a world cup almost single handedly. Why should we be angry at him? He's going to miss the world cup that's his own problem. Why should the peruvians be angry for what he did though?

1 - 'single handedly'? Bit harsh on the rest of the other players which you rave about saying some should be playing in Europe or at a higher level. Big contradiction that. Did they help or not? Or was it all Guerrero?

2 - why be angry at him? He's fucking cheated his way through to 'single handedly' getting you to the World Cup.

3 - 'that's his own problem' - it's clearly not because you all sound very sore that he's going to be missing the World Cup. Going back to the 'single handedly' comment again, by that logic you'll be failing miserably at the World Cup if he's not going to be there. So yeah, I'd say it's a big problem for you all if he's not going to be there. 

[nudge+]

12 hours ago, Blue said:

Liberman saying Pizarro has a chance to go to Russia.

I wish that man can be quiet for once.

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