2. Bundesliga 2024/2025

[Tommy]

[Michael]

On 21/09/2024 at 13:37, Rucksackfranzose said:

Schalke destroyed Braunschweig correct, still you forgot to mention Braunschweig got the great total of 1 point and a goal difference of -12 in 5 matches, as well as losing 1-4 at home in their cup match. Do you really think that win indicates anything other than Braunschweig having an abysmal start to the season?

Well plyed 6 matches, threee against top half three against lower half teams, out of this Schalke won 1 match against a bottom half team and lost both the others, since they amazed 4 points they lost 2 and drew 1 of their matches against top half opponents, and that against Magdeburg, who will finish the season in the bottom in my honest opinion, while Elversberg played 5 matches 4 of them against top half teams of which they lost 1, and 1 against a bottom half team, Darmstadt at home, which they won 4-0. So although Elversberg played less matches in total and more matches against top half teams they managed to amaze more points than Schalke. Both teams played already 4 opponents the other team played as well . The results were: Elversberg 4-0 Darmstadt, Schalke 3-5 Darmstadt; Magdeburg 0-0 Elversberg, Schalke 2-2 Magdeburg; Karlsruhe 3-2 Elversberg, Karlsruhe 2-0 Schalke; Elversberg 2-2 Köln, and Schalke 1-3 Köln.

Yea, have to admit the reality supports your thesis of Schalke being most definetly better than Elversberg immensly.

Bottom of the table Ulm just defeated Elversberg convincingly 3-1 on Elversberg's home ground yesterday! Yes, Ulm, who were rock bottom of the table before they played Elversberg and Ulm are a team that are arguably the weakest team in the league this season. Ulm also hit the cross-bar against Elversberg and Ulm also had a strong penalty appeal turned down in that match. At least Schalke destroyed another lower half table team Braunschweig 5-1. Maybe you want to revise Schalke's and Elversberg's results. 

Schalke's results so far:

Schalke 5-1 Braunschweig

Nurnberg 3-1 Schalke (the sending of a Schalke player turned the tide in that match, as Schalke were leading before they had a player sent-off)

Magdeburg 2-2 Schalke

Schalke 1-3 Koln

Karlsruhe 2-0 Schalke

Schalke 3-5 Darmstadt (Schalke were leading 3-0 in the 1st half and were by far the better team at that point, then it just seemed that they just completely mentally collapsed, but I give credit to Darmstadt and their star forward Lidberg in particular, as he was excellent on the day with his hattrick).

In analysing these matches, Schalke should have definitely beaten Nurnberg and Darmstadt, or at the very least have drawn. Because in the Nurnberg match, Schalke were leading and in control before they had a player sent-off. The sending-off changed the course of the game in Nurnberg's favour. While against Darmstadt, Schalke were leading 3-0 and then ended up capitulating and losing. I don't need to say more, to lose a match after being dominant in the first half and leading 3-0, says a lot about a mental collapse that they had.

But I'd say the other results of Schalke were fair. Koln and Karlsruhe are better teams, that are playing better than Schalke right now. They deserved their wins against Schake, but we also have to remember, that Koln and Karlsruhe are both very strong contenders for getting promoted this season. So Schalke losing to both of them is not really a disgrace, while Schalke drawing 2-2 away to Magdeburg, isn't a terrible result either. Furthermore, Schalke destroying Braunschweig 5-1 was impressive, as any big margin win like that deserves credit, even if the opposition is one of the weaker sides in the division. 

Schalke have essentially so far lost to some of the better teams in the league in Karlsruhe, Koln and Darmstadt, while the Nurnberg loss was due in great part to Schalke having a player sent-off, as Schalke were leading in that match prior to the sending-off. Nurnberg by the way, are a team who I would say have a very good chance of potentially finishing in the top half of the table this season. They have some very good players in their team from what I've seen.

Elversberg's results so far:

Magdeburg 0-0 Elversberg

Elversberg 2-2 Koln

Karlsrhuhe 3-2 Elversberg

Elversberg 4-0 Darmstadt

Greuther Furth 0-0 Elversberg

Elversberg 1-3 Ulm

Elversberg drawing 0-0 away to Magdeburg isn't a bad result. Elversberg drawing 2-2 at home to Koln was a good result for them, while Elversberg losing 3-2 to Karlsruhe isn't a disgrace, as Elversberg were kind of expected to lose against them. Elversberg's 4-0 win over Darmstadt at home was impressive and that was the kind of win that Schalke were heading for against Darmstadt, as they lead 3-0 in the 1st half, but then like we said, they capitulated in the 2nd half.

Moreover, Elversberg's 0-0 draw against Greuther Furth was an ok result. Although, unlike you, I think Greuther Furth are a bottom half of the table team and the bookmakers agree with me on that. Greuther Furth's 2-0 loss to Braunschweig I think demonstrated just how bad they can be. Finally Elversberg's 3-1 loss to Ulm, while playing in their own stadium was a rather embarrassing result for Elverberg. Ulm are arguably the weakest team in the league and to lose to Ulm while Elversberg were playing at home, is humiliating.

In conclusion, in terms of results, in my opinion both teams have so far played 3 top half of the table teams and 3 bottom half of the table teams. Their points tally so far in the very early stage of the season is pretty close, but I think that Elversberg's 3-1 loss to a side like Ulm is telling. Schalke didn't lose to such weak opposition and I don't think they are ever likely to. Moreover, Schalke decided to sack their manager, because Schalke's results clearly hasn't met the expectations of the board. In particular, I think that Schalke's 5-3 loss to Darmstadt, after Schalke were cruising in the 1st half and leading 3-0, was the final straw, as it was a match that Schalke should have won.

For Elversberg, I don't think that their manager will be sacked soon, despite them having a similar points tally to Schalke. Even Elversberg's loss, when they lost to bottom of the table Ulm, is unlikely to get the Elversberg manager the sack, because the Elversberg board's expectations aren't as high as the Schalke boards expectations. A lot more is going to be expected from a squad like Schalke's, which has higher potential than a squad like Elversberg's. I say that with all due respect to Elversberg.

On 22/09/2024 at 09:16, Rucksackfranzose said:

Okay then, name a Schalke forward better than Luca Schnellbacher! And be so kind to point out, why Justin Heekeren is better than Nicolas Kristof!

That's interesting that you mention Heekeren, because I was just thinking the other day, that he seems to be a weak link in the Schalke team. I will tell you now that I think that Kristof is better than Heekeren, but I also think that Ron-Thorben Hoffmann is better than both of them and I don't know why he isn't starting for Schalke. However, like I said, Schalke still have many more better players in their team than Elversberg, that doesn't mean of course that every Schalke player is better than every Elversberg player. But we can go through both teams and breakdown how that player for player, Schalke have more better players.

Schalke v Elversberg

Goalkeepers:

Schalke

Ron-Thorben Hoffman is Schalke's best goalkeeper, so I don't understand why he hasn't started ahead of Heekeren this season. I think that the new Schalke manager will immediately install Hoffman as their number 1 goalkeeper again. Hoffman is a better keeper than both Heekeren and Kristof in my opinion. Hoffman was a part of the youth teams of elite clubs like Bayern Munich and RB Leipzig. While Hoffman also had a good season on loan at Sunderland a couple of years ago, as well as some impressive displays when he was a keeper for Braunschweig.

Elversberg

Nicholas Kristof is a good keeper for this division, that can't be denied. I would rate him as a better keeper than Heekeren. But I still believe that Hoffman is overall a more competent goalie than Kristof.  

Defenders:

Right-backs

Schalke

Adrian Gantenbein: The young Swiss right-back is a Switzerland under-21 international and a highly rated young player. He has been pretty good for Schalke so far this season.

Mehmet Can-Aydin: Aydin is another young Schalke right-back who is also competent and well rated. Aydin has represented the German national team at various youth levels and Aydin also helped big Turkish side Trabzonspor finish in 3rd place last season in the Turkish league.

Elversberg

Elias Baum: The young right-back on loan from Frankfurt has been one of Elversberg's better performers this season. He has played for Germany at some youth levels.

I would say that Baum is probably at a similar standard to Gantenbein and Aydin right now. So I will for arguments sake say that for the right back position, all these 3 players are at a similar level, so Schalke and Elversberg are probably at a similar strength in the right-back position with these players.

Left-backs:

Schalke

Derry Murkin: The English left-back has been one of the best left-backs in the 2 Bundesliga since he joined Schalke in August 2023. He is a dynamic left-back whose crossing is a real threat when he goes forward and attacks. 

Elversberg

Maurice Neubauer: The Elversberg left-back is a decent left-back in this division but he is nowhere near Murkin's level. So Schalke are definitely stronger than Elversberg in the left-back position. 

Central Defenders:

Schalke

Tomas Kalas: Kalas is an experienced Czech defender who has played 31 international matches for the Czech Republic and he has also scored 2 international goals for them. Furthermore, Kalas has played for Chelsea and Fulham. Kalas was a regular starter for Fulham as well and a key player in defence for them. Kalas has also played for Middlesbrough and Bristol City during his career as well as Koln. He has played for very good clubs in the past and he is an experienced international for the Czech national team. Kalas was also a part of the Czech Republic national team that played at Euro 2020.

Marcin Kaminski: Kaminski is another experienced defender for Schalke. The Polish defender has played for the Polish national team on a number of occasions and he was also a member of the Polish squad that played at Euro 2012 as a youngster. Kaminski has also played regularly for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga in the past, he amassed 60 games for Stuttgart and he has plenty of top level Bundesliga experience. The 2 Bundesliga is a step down in the level of football that he has played for most of his career in the Bundesliga.

Felipe Sanchez: The young 20 year old Argentine is a highly rated defender who was wanted by some Serie A and La Liga clubs before he joined Schalke. So Schalke buying the young Argentine is a bit of a coup for them. Sanchez is definitely one of the better young defenders in the 2 Bundesliga.

Martin Wasinski:  Wasinski is another young Schalke defender who is highly rated. The 20 year old Belgian defender has played for Belgium at various youth levels. Like Sanchez, he looks to have a very promising future.

Ibrahima Cisse: The Mali defender is yet another youngster who is very well regarded. Cisse already has a goal to his name in the 2 Bundesliga for Schalke this season. 

Elversberg

Florian Le Joncour: The experienced French central defender has played most of his career in the French 2nd tier as well as in Belgium. He is a decent defender, but nothing to write home about.

Maximilian Rohr: Rohr has played most of his career in the 2 Bundesliga and he has never played in a top league despite his long career. Again he is a decent defender, but he doesn't compare to most of Schalke's defenders.

Lukas Pinckert: The youngest of Elversberg's central defenders at 24 years of age. Prior to joining Elversberg 2 years ago, Pinckert only ever played in the lower German divisions. So the 2 Bundesliga is the highest level league that he has ever played in. 

I think that all in all, we can clearly see that Schalke have the better central defenders. Not only do they have Kalas and Kaminski, both of whom have played many times for their respective national teams and both of whom have been to the European Championships. Moreover, both of them have played in the top tier leagues, either the Premier League or the Bundesliga. While the other 3 young Schalke defenders Sanchez, Wasinski and Cisse are all highly rated young defenders. I am sorry, but overall, Le Joncour, Rohr and Pinckert are definitely not as good as the Schalke defenders.

Central Midfielders:

Schalke

Ron Schallenberg: He is a central midfielder who has been one of the best in his position in this division in recent years, both at Schalke and when he was at Paderborn. Schallenberg also has top tier Bundesliga experience for when he was at Paderborn, when they were in the Bundesliga.

Paul Seguin: Seguin is an experienced midfielder who is another who has top tier experience, having played in the Bundesliga with Wolfsburg and Union Berlin in the past. 

Amin Younes: Younes has plenty of elite level experience, having played for top clubs like Napoli and Ajax. He has played in the Champions League and he has also been capped 8 times for the full German national team where he scored 2 international goals for them. Younes played for Germany at the 2017 Confederations Cup. 

Mauro Zalazar: The Uruguayan teenager is a highly rated young midfielder, who is expected to have a very bright future.

Elversberg

Robin Fellhauer: Fellhauer is Elversberg's captain and an important player in their team. He is a good midfielder in this league, but again, at 26, he has never played in a top tier league.

Carlo Sickinger: Sickinger joined Elversberg from Sandhausen. He has played in 2 Bundesliga and other lower divisions throughout his career and at 27, similar to Fellhauer, he has never played in a top tier league, such as the Bundesliga.

Semih Sahin: He is the other central midfielder in Elverberg's team. He is a decent player, but again, prior to joining Elversberg last season, he was playing in the the 3rd Bundesliga and the regional leagues. The 2 Bundesliga is the highest level that he has ever played at.

Again, I don't think that Elversberg's central midfielders are on the same level as Schalke's central midfielders. Younes, Schallenberg and Seguin all have Bundesliga experience, while Younes also played in the Champions League and for the German national team.

Wingers/Wide midfielders:

Schalke

Ilyes Hamache: The 21 year old is a highly rated young winger, who has represented the France Under 20 national team.

Christopher Antwi-Adjei: The Ghanian international has played regularly in the Bundesliga when he was at Bochum and Paderborn, as well as playing for the Ghanian national team. He is a winger who has plenty of experience playing in a top tier league.

Tobias Mohr: Mohr is an experienced player, who played for Heidenheim before he joined Elverberg. He has never played in the Bundesliga, but is an experienced 2 Bundesliga player.

Elversberg

Lukas Petkov: The Bulgarian is a young player who is arguably Elversberg's best player in my opinion. Petkov is a regular in the Bulgarian national team and he has Bundesliga experience with Augsburg. Petkov is a very good player in the 2 Bundesliga.

Muhammed Damar: Damar is another very decent young player. He has some Bundesliga experience with Hoffenheim and now on loan at Elversberg, he is playing very well in the 2 Bundesliga.

Manuel Feil: Feil has a lot of experience, but in all honesty, is an average player.

Looking at the wide positions, there's probably not much difference in quality between the 2 sides. I would even say that there is a chance that Elversberg's wide players are slightly better, namely Petkov and Damar. But it's very close, because Hamache and Adjei are at a similar level to the Elversberg wide men.

Forwards

Schalke

Moussa Sylla: Sylla had represented France at various youth levels before he decided to play for the Mali national team. Sylla who can play as a winger or a striker, played several years at top French side AS Monaco. He has also played for top flight Dutch side Utrecht as well as French 2nd division clubs Caen and Pau. He is a highly rated young forward who has already scored 4 goals so far this season for Schalke.

Kenan Karaman: The Schalke captain is an experienced forward, who has played for the Turkish national team 31 times and scored 6 goals for them. Karaman also played for Turkey at Euro 2020 in all their matches. There is no doubt that Karaman is a top forward in this division. Similar to Sylla, Karaman has already scored 4 goals in the Bundesliga for Schalke this season.

Bryan Lasme: The French forward/winger has played in the Bundesliga with Bielefeld, so he has top flight experience, despite still being 25. Lasme started his career out at Sochaux and he is a good forward player in this league, the 2 Bundesliga. Lasme has also played for the France Under 20 national team and represented them at the 2018 Toulon Tournament.

Emil Hojlund: The teenager is the highly rated younger brother of Manchester United forward Rasmus Hojlund. He has played for top Danish club Copenhagen as well as the Danish under 19 and under 18 national teams. 

Elversberg

Luca Schnellbacher: Schnellbacher has been quite a prolific scorer for Elversberg since he joined them in 2020. But prior to that, his scoring rate at the lower league clubs he played before that, wasn't exactly great. At 30, he is an experienced forward, who is a good striker for Elversberg, but he has never played in a top league. 

Fisnik Asllani: The young forward is a very promising player. He has played for Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, although he has never scored for them. However, he is a very good forward for this division and has already scored 4 goals this season.

Filimon Gerezgiher: He is a 24 year old forward in his first at Elversberg. Prior to being with Elversberg, he only played in the lowe leagues. This is the highest level that he has ever played at, as this is this is the 1st season he has ever played in the 2 Bundesliga. He is an average footballer in this league at best.

To conclude, I would say that Karaman and Sylla are probably slightly better than Asllani and Schnellbacher. Karaman has proven himself at a competent level in a top tier league and he has played very well for his national team Turkey over the years.

As for Sylla, is a highly rated 24 year old who was good enough to be a regular for top French side Monaco, where he scored a few goals for them as well in the past. Sylla also played at a number of French youth national team levels as well, even the French B national team before he decided to play for the Mali national team.

Karaman and Sylla have already proven themselves to be a real threat this season, with the pair of them already bagging 4 goals each in the Bundesliga. While Schnellbacher and Asllani are also very good players for this division, they've not really proven themselves in a top league. Schnellbacher has never played in a top league, while Asllani only had a few appearances for Hoffenheim early in his career and never scored for them.

As for Lasme and Hojlund, I think that they are both definitely better than Gerezgiher. Lasme was good enough to play in the Bundesliga, while Hojlund was good enough to play at Denmark's best club Copenhagen. As for Gerezgiher, this is his first season playing at the 2 Bundesliga level, as prior to that, he only ever played in the lower leagues.

All in all, I think that it's quite obvious that Schalke are stronger in most positions when comparing them to Elversberg and they definitely have more depth than Elversberg do.

[Rucksackfranzose]

@Michael You're rating the players much too much according whom they played for previous so you rated Lasme better than Schnellbacher for having played in Sochaux, although he's amazed a whopping 4 goals for Schalke since 2023,while Schnellbsachert shot more than double , 11, in the same time. What clubs players have played for is irreleveant, anyhow: Rensing wasn't anywhere near world class just because he was  at Bayern from 2000 to 2010. Also you're mentioning Hojlund was playing for Copenhagen, yet conveniently overlook he played only with their youth and made a whopping 1 (in words one) appearance for their first team, if he was that good, why didn't he make the cut from U19 Drenge Ligaen to Superliga?

Back to your logic: Stefan Kießling must have been he better forward than Miro Klose during the time both were active than, since Kießling played for Nürnberg's youth as well as Germany U20 and U21 national teams, while Klose only has played for SG Blaubach-Diedelkopf and Homburg until he joined Lautern in 1999.

Edited Tuesday at 08:00 by Rucksackfranzose

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

@Michael You're rating the players much too much according whom they played for previous so you rated Lasme better than Schnellbacher for having played in Sochaux, although he's amazed a whopping 4 goals for Schalke since 2023,while Schnellbsachert shot more than double , 11, in the same time. What clubs players have played for is irreleveant, anyhow: Rensing wasn't anywhere near world class just because he was  at Bayern from 2000 to 2010. Also you're mentioning Hojlund was playing for Copenhagen, yet conveniently overlook he played only with their youth and made a whopping 1 (in words one) appearance for their first team, if he was that good, why didn't he make the cut from U19 Drenge Ligaen to Superliga?

Back to your logic: Stefan Kießling must have been he better forward than Miro Klose during the time both were active than, since Kießling played for Nürnberg's youth as well as Germany U20 and U21 national teams, while Klose only has played for SG Blaubach-Diedelkopf and Homburg until he joined Lautern in 1999.

I didn't actually say that Lasme was better than Schnellbacher, I specifically named Karaman and Syalla as being better than Schnellbacher at the end, or at least that's what I suggested. I said Lasme and Hojlund are better than Gerezgiher, so please read what I wrote carefully. Also in terms of goals scored, Lasme has played as a winger for a long part of his career so far, as well as a striker, unlike Schnellbacher, who has always played as an out and out striker. So strikers are always going to be in a position to score more goals than wingers. So you didn't give a good example there and you failed to explain that Lasme has also played as a winger for large parts of his career.

Hojlund is still a kid, he was at Denmark's best club Copenhagen who snap up all the best talent in the country. He is a highly rated prospect, but obviously competition is always going to be tough at Denmark's best club. However Hojlund is highly rated as a future prospect, he has played for the Danish international youth teams at various levels. The fact that he was good enough to be in Copenhagen's first team squad as a kid in itself says something. By the way he did play in cup competitions more frequently for Copenhagen than he did in the league. This is something that many top clubs do in trying to slowly integrate the younger players into the 1st team. Again, I didn't say that he is currently better than Schnellbacher, but he certainly has the potential to be. Hojlund is a teenager, his best is yet to come, but nonetheless, he is highly rated in Denmark as a future prospect.

The Kiessling and Klose example is a bad example. Klose was still a youngster when he joined Kaiserslautern. The examples of players having played at top flight level for a long enough time, underlines the fact that  they were good enough to play at that level. The top clubs in the top division clearly felt they were good enough at that level. Schalke have many players like that with top flight experience, compared to Elversberg. The best league that most of the Elversberg players have played in is the 2 Bundesliga. Some of them have played years in the lower leagues and only now in their mid to late 20s started playing in the 2 Bundesliga. 

In todays game, if there is a good enough talent, the top clubs in the Bundesliga will snap them up. Schalke have many of those such players in their team, while Elversberg don't have that many at all. Moreover, Schalke have players who have played Champions League football and players who have played for their respective national teams many times, they've played at respective international competitions like the Euros. Elversberg don't have any players who've reached that level. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:23 by Michael

[Tommy]

We have never won a game in the 2. Bundesliga in Fürth before.