Matchday Chat - 5-6th May, 2018

[SirBalon]

Great send off for Arsene although the t-shirts being given away were ridiculous. Anyhow... It was a great moment to say goodbye against Burnley at home. Wish it could've been against Marseille in a European final but it wasn't to be and I suppose that was fitting too for the legacy. Merci Arsène. 

[Dave]

Claude Puel has called for Leicester fans to have some perspective 

[Marc]

where do Leicester and Everton fans think they should be in the league?

With everton is it just that it's Allardyce? perfectly acceptable if so, I'd struggle to support my club with Allardyce in charge, i just detest him, con man.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

where do Leicester and Everton fans think they should be in the league?

With everton is it just that it's Allardyce? perfectly acceptable if so, I'd struggle to support my club with Allardyce in charge, i just detest him, con man.

I expect us to be near, if not at, the top of the 'best of the rest' i.e best team outside the top 6.

So as much as we're near where I think we should be, the standard of football for the last few months has been nothing short of terrible. 

[RandoEFC+]

15 hours ago, Marc said:

where do Leicester and Everton fans think they should be in the league?

With everton is it just that it's Allardyce? perfectly acceptable if so, I'd struggle to support my club with Allardyce in charge, i just detest him, con man.

I expect Everton to be kicking on and challenging the top six. No excuses, we managed to ruffle feathers without really breaking the glass ceiling for years under Moyes so there's no reason that with some more money behind us now we shouldn't be aiming to at least get closer each season.

The Tottenham model is the perfect example of what we should be looking to do. Quality signings for sensible money, players that when they come in, you know exactly what position and role they'll be carrying out in the side. We've spent the money but have been totally careless in doing so, bringing in three number 10s and leaving ourselves with Southampton's previous fourth choice right back as our second choice left back and a 20 year old leading the line with his competition coming from a player that didn't have a squad number at the start of the summer.

Nobody wants Allardyce at the club but he also wasn't the problem in the first place. The problem was a lack of organisation from top to bottom in our recruitment process and I also think we have a major attitude problem running through the squad where we have too many players (Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie etc.) who simply don't seem arsed about taking responsibility for their performances when the team is struggling. We need more Lee Carsley and Tim Cahill characters in the dressing room again along with the big money signings to add quality around them. To be fair you could argue that in signing Walcott and Tosun, these look like exactly the type of players who fit the bill to a decent extent so maybe the club has learned something.

While Allardyce has done his job for this season, he has also shown less than nothing to suggest he can build on it and take the club forward which is why people want him gone but when that's sorted big questions need asking of Walsh, Kenwright and Moshiri about how they're going to fix the mess they've got us into with their negligence last summer (and before).

[Dan+]

19 hours ago, Marc said:

where do Leicester and Everton fans think they should be in the league?

With everton is it just that it's Allardyce? perfectly acceptable if so, I'd struggle to support my club with Allardyce in charge, i just detest him, con man.

I expect us to not be absolute rubbish, and to not capitulate every 4 months.

9th is far from a disaster, but we're nearer points wise to Huddersfield than Burnley. I'm treating it in context of the league itself. I think nearly any other year we'd be about 15th playing like this.

If we'd won a few more games, and so had Everton, meaning we'd still be 9th but with more points, there'd be far less meltdown. It's the manner of the performances that are pissing fans off.

Our form since January...

Swansea (h) - 1-1 draw. Unfortunate, better side but our set piece frailty costs us again.
Man City (a) - 5-1 loss. Decent first half, a pathetic collapse in the second, granted against a brilliant side.
Stoke (h) - 1-1 draw. Pathetic.
Bournemouth (h) - 1-1 draw. Robbed a point with a last second free-kick. Shit result and got out of jail.
West Brom (a) - 1-4 win. Slow start but eventually beat them comfortably, a very good performance, albeit against a shambolic side.
Brighton (a) - 0-2 win. Not a great performance, but we took our chances and Brighton didn't. A very good result.
Newcastle (h) - 1-2 loss. Created nothing until the last ten minutes. Outworked, out-thought. Appalling.
Burnley (a) - 2-1 loss. Horrendous start, a decent recovery, but not enough.
Southampton (h) - 0-0 draw. Created next to nothing at home to a side leaking goals for fun. Disgrace.
Crystal Palace (a) - 5-0 loss. Our worst result in 8 years. An absolute disgusting disgrace.
West Ham (h) - 0-2 loss. Outplayed by another out of form, defensively leaky side, creating next to nothing. Disgrace.

That's 12 games which only Stoke have a poorer record than us over that period, and of those 12, only Man City was against a side in the top six.

It's absolutely terrible form. It's relegation form and it shouldn't be tolerated by a club who are paying out bigger wages than everyone bar the top six and Everton.

[Marc]

4 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I expect Everton to be kicking on and challenging the top six. No excuses, we managed to ruffle feathers without really breaking the glass ceiling for years under Moyes so there's no reason that with some more money behind us now we shouldn't be aiming to at least get closer each season.

The Tottenham model is the perfect example of what we should be looking to do. Quality signings for sensible money, players that when they come in, you know exactly what position and role they'll be carrying out in the side. We've spent the money but have been totally careless in doing so, bringing in three number 10s and leaving ourselves with Southampton's previous fourth choice right back as our second choice left back and a 20 year old leading the line with his competition coming from a player that didn't have a squad number at the start of the summer.

Nobody wants Allardyce at the club but he also wasn't the problem in the first place. The problem was a lack of organisation from top to bottom in our recruitment process and I also think we have a major attitude problem running through the squad where we have too many players (Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie etc.) who simply don't seem arsed about taking responsibility for their performances when the team is struggling. We need more Lee Carsley and Tim Cahill characters in the dressing room again along with the big money signings to add quality around them. To be fair you could argue that in signing Walcott and Tosun, these look like exactly the type of players who fit the bill to a decent extent so maybe the club has learned something.

While Allardyce has done his job for this season, he has also shown less than nothing to suggest he can build on it and take the club forward which is why people want him gone but when that's sorted big questions need asking of Walsh, Kenwright and Moshiri about how they're going to fix the mess they've got us into with their negligence last summer (and before).

Playing devils advocate here, but on a 'Since Allardyce took over' table i'm sure you are 6th, above Arsenal. Granted, I dont blame any football fan for wanting that fat cunt out and the football has been terrible. I just think 7th at best is where Everton will be. I think your spending is overstated, considering you got 80m for Lukaku and whatever it was for Barkley, I doubt your net spending was that high. You sold arguably your two best players from last season and Lukaku certainly didn't get replaced.

59 minutes ago, Dan said:

I expect us to not be absolute rubbish, and to not capitulate every 4 months.

9th is far from a disaster, but we're nearer points wise to Huddersfield than Burnley. I'm treating it in context of the league itself. I think nearly any other year we'd be about 15th playing like this.

If we'd won a few more games, and so had Everton, meaning we'd still be 9th but with more points, there'd be far less meltdown. It's the manner of the performances that are pissing fans off.

Our form since January...

Swansea (h) - 1-1 draw. Unfortunate, better side but our set piece frailty costs us again.
Man City (a) - 5-1 loss. Decent first half, a pathetic collapse in the second, granted against a brilliant side.
Stoke (h) - 1-1 draw. Pathetic.
Bournemouth (h) - 1-1 draw. Robbed a point with a last second free-kick. Shit result and got out of jail.
West Brom (a) - 1-4 win. Slow start but eventually beat them comfortably, a very good performance, albeit against a shambolic side.
Brighton (a) - 0-2 win. Not a great performance, but we took our chances and Brighton didn't. A very good result.
Newcastle (h) - 1-2 loss. Created nothing until the last ten minutes. Outworked, out-thought. Appalling.
Burnley (a) - 2-1 loss. Horrendous start, a decent recovery, but not enough.
Southampton (h) - 0-0 draw. Created next to nothing at home to a side leaking goals for fun. Disgrace.
Crystal Palace (a) - 5-0 loss. Our worst result in 8 years. An absolute disgusting disgrace.
West Ham (h) - 0-2 loss. Outplayed by another out of form, defensively leaky side, creating next to nothing. Disgrace.

That's 12 games which only Stoke have a poorer record than us over that period, and of those 12, only Man City was against a side in the top six.

It's absolutely terrible form. It's relegation form and it shouldn't be tolerated by a club who are paying out bigger wages than everyone bar the top six and Everton.

 

Again, I don't disagree with much of what you've said. You had that freak, amazing season, but the summer after that Leicester will regret for along time. You won the lottery and spunked the money on shit. Nobody can take the league win away from you or the CL run, but you had a chance to build a team that could be 'best of the rest' every season for a good while, instead I think you'll just be in amongst it with the other shit 14 teams in the league from here on in.

[Dan+]

37 minutes ago, Marc said:

Playing devils advocate here, but on a 'Since Allardyce took over' table i'm sure you are 6th, above Arsenal. Granted, I dont blame any football fan for wanting that fat cunt out and the football has been terrible. I just think 7th at best is where Everton will be. I think your spending is overstated, considering you got 80m for Lukaku and whatever it was for Barkley, I doubt your net spending was that high. You sold arguably your two best players from last season and Lukaku certainly didn't get replaced.

 

Again, I don't disagree with much of what you've said. You had that freak, amazing season, but the summer after that Leicester will regret for along time. You won the lottery and spunked the money on shit. Nobody can take the league win away from you or the CL run, but you had a chance to build a team that could be 'best of the rest' every season for a good while, instead I think you'll just be in amongst it with the other shit 14 teams in the league from here on in.

I agree with that, I just find the fact those responsible for that summer aren't held accountable yet every manager gets the chop.

[Dave]

The impatience of Leicester and Everton fans makes for some great reading in terms of quality of posts.

[Dan+]

18 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

The impatience of Leicester and Everton fans makes for some great reading in terms of quality of posts.

I wouldn't even consider myself that impatient. I'd say as a fanbase we are but I think I was on Puel's side a lot longer than most. I don't demand we sign stars or win trophies, I'm happy for us to put building blocks in place. Problem is I see no evidence we're doing that.

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Marc said:

Playing devils advocate here, but on a 'Since Allardyce took over' table i'm sure you are 6th, above Arsenal. Granted, I dont blame any football fan for wanting that fat cunt out and the football has been terrible. I just think 7th at best is where Everton will be. I think your spending is overstated, considering you got 80m for Lukaku and whatever it was for Barkley, I doubt your net spending was that high. You sold arguably your two best players from last season and Lukaku certainly didn't get replaced.

 

Again, I don't disagree with much of what you've said. You had that freak, amazing season, but the summer after that Leicester will regret for along time. You won the lottery and spunked the money on shit. Nobody can take the league win away from you or the CL run, but you had a chance to build a team that could be 'best of the rest' every season for a good while, instead I think you'll just be in amongst it with the other shit 14 teams in the league from here on in.

You're right and like I've said elsewhere if Allardyce does stay I'd still back us for 7th next season which would actually be fine, even if sitting through this football for another season would be absolute torture.

However there's no scope to improve with him as manager. Like I said earlier in the thread. I don't care if 7th is about right for Everton. As long as we settle for that that's what we'll get. Nobody would have said that a Champions League final is about right for Liverpool this season, or that Spurs finishing 2nd and 3rd in consecutive seasons is about right but they went and achieved those things, Leicester winning the league is obviously an extreme example. The point is that even if 7th isn't underachieving for us and even if we still don't spend anywhere near as much as the top six as you quite rightly point out, you expect your club to aim for more whoever you support and it's sickening watch our board claim they want to challenge the top six then come out at the end of season awards and publicly praise the Lord because you've got Allardyce delivering you to 8th place.