The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Blue said: I can't tell if TPF is on the wind up or not. How can you use clubs to determine a players ability? I've critiqued the Bundesliga before and I stand by everything I said about them, but it is a high enough standard. Those 4 players I mentioned, were excellent. By this logic, Ibrahimovic wasn't world class until he joined United. They weren't excellent. They had the opportunity to be better than they were, and they failed. That's what I was getting at. Tapia could be excellent, but his next move to maximise his potential is all about timing. That's where Vargas and Farfan failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Just now, The Palace Fan said: They weren't excellent. They had the opportunity to be better than they were, and they failed. They were. The only one who had the opportunity to be "better" was Farfan. He could have been world class but was short off the mark. Ask any Schalke fan and they'll tell you he was key to the team that consistently qualified for the champions league. Vargas was excellent for his first few seasons in Serie A and then was "good". Guerrero peaked when he was at Corinthians Pizarro is the top foreign scorer of the bundesliga for now. I would hardly class them as failures, the only thing that failed within those 4 was the Peru team between 2004 and 2015. Even then we finished 3rd twice in the Copa America amongst that time. It's all opinion based but saying they failed just because they didn't play in the PL is harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: I didn't say he was? So why bring up that season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: Tapia could be excellent, but his next move to maximise his potential is all about timing. That's where Vargas and Farfan failed. I agree with this though, Tapia has all the markings of the next Peruvian great but he needs to sort his move before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cicero said: So why bring up that season? Same generation of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Blue said: They were. The only one who had the opportunity to be "better" was Farfan. He could have been world class but was short off the mark. Ask any Schalke fan and they'll tell you he was key to the team that consistently qualified for the champions league. Vargas was excellent for his first few seasons in Serie A and then was "good". Guerrero peaked when he was at Corinthians Pizarro is the top foreign scorer of the bundesliga for now. I would hardly class them as failures, the only thing that failed within those 4 was the Peru team between 2004 and 2015. Even then we finished 3rd twice in the Copa America amongst that time. It's all opinion based but saying they failed just because they didn't play in the PL is harsh. I understand where you're coming from Brian and you present your case well. My opinion on Farfan and Vargas is that if they had joined Tottenham (as an example of who they were linked with, I know Vargas was heavily linked with United under Ferguson which could have been a game changer for anybody) they could have been playing under the optimism of Redknapp with Modric, VDV, Bale etc. then been there throughout the Villa's Boss transition phase and possibly the Pochettino era if they lasted the test through time. That, in Farfan's situation especially, could have produced a better footballer that would have benefited Peru as a nation. I understand though that's a hypothetical situation and completely my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Just now, The Palace Fan said: I understand where you're coming from Brian and you present your case well. My opinion on Farfan and Vargas is that if they had joined Tottenham (as an example of who they were linked with, I know Vargas was heavily linked with United under Ferguson which could have been a game changer for anybody) they could have been playing under the optimism of Redknapp with Modric, VDV, Bale etc. then been there throughout the Villa's Boss transition phase and possibly the Pochettino era if they lasted the test through time. That, in Farfan's situation especially, could have produced a better footballer that would have benefited Peru as a nation. I understand though that's a hypothetical situation and completely my opinion. There are no disagreements that Farfan could have been better. His career as a "top" footballer ended as soon as he went to Al Jazira. Now he's just "good". Vargas was actually linked to Real Madrid as well at one point, but those were just rumours. However, the thing I disagree with is that they were failures. They had good careers, especially opposed to what we have now who are talented, but aren't getting interest of European clubs at all, let alone top teams. This Peru team is a success, but at club level they haven't had as decorated careers as the past 4 I've mentioned. I can see what you're saying and I think you make good points, but I wouldn't call them failures. Vargas is actually a player who has become a subject to memes as much as Pizarro in recent times, because he's overweight and has been a failed signing for Universitario, when much more was expected of him. His time in Argentina and Europe though was good enough for my standard. Sure it could have been better, but I'll take it especially seeing the situation our players are in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I wouldn't say they were failures. That would be horrendously harsh They failed to hit their potential but that doesn't make them failures. A failure would be Michael Johnson, Freddy Adu, the Brazillian that ran with the ball like a seal etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Marc said: Did Ryan Babel (lol) seriously play as a wing back? Such a poor Dutch team. They surely need to get rid of the likes of Babel and bring through the next generation. Kluivert in the squad? No he didnt play wing back he was left Wing, Tete and Blind played full backs in a 4 3 3. Kluivert came on as a sub but the biggest prospect didnt play Bergwijn who was injured. Babel is actually doing great at Besiktas. Plus it was a retirement match for Sneijder, have to judge on sunday agaisnt France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,197 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Panna King said: No he didnt play wing back he was left Wing, Tete and Blind played full backs in a 4 3 3. Kluivert came on as a sub but the biggest prospect didnt play Bergwijn who was injured. Babel is actually doing great at Besiktas. Plus it was a retirement match for Sneijder, have to judge on sunday agaisnt France. How was Gini? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: How was Gini? He was ok but only played the first half. Van Dijk was solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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