Making Music

[Mel81x+]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

Hey, come on! ..you cant get much rougher than a phone infront of an amp 

Your playing is superb.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Mel81x said:

Luckily I dont have to make that choice haha but SD3 over the other two. I just use Maschine and program drum beats that way and i like their workflow. I dont touch the keyboard, build the groups, tap the slots and then add velocity and I am done.

Sound - that helps me make the decision pretty easily then. Thanks 

Honestly, where would I be without all the advice you've given me in this thread? Would be absolutely lost in the sea of information about all of this shite all over the internet!

[Happy Blue]

Just now, Mel81x said:

Your playing is superb.

Thanks mate but im not that good, just ok 

[Mel81x+]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sound - that helps me make the decision pretty easily then. Thanks 

Honestly, where would I be without all the advice you've given me in this thread? Would be absolutely lost in the sea of information about all of this shite all over the internet!

When we meet we will barbeque first then jam next.

[Mel81x+]

I think it works both ways for me personally @Dr. Gonzo when I try and share information I learn too. Good example is taking the drum samples and just using them to burn through finger sessions (tapping like im on steroids) vs programming them in. It's honestly so much work but the end product is so rewarding. Then you end up watching all kinds of weird videos where folks are doing finger gymnastics on a Maschine MK 3 and you wonder when you'll ever get that good only to realize you really dont need to be that good you just need to know what you want and program it in. 

I cant wait to go back into a jam room or a studio and meet folks and just play now because I feel like I'll waste all this knowledge if I dont start playing with other people soon.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

Thanks mate but im not that good, just ok 

It was great playing and the tone was wicked (and the phone mic probably didn't even do it justice!)

9 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

When we meet we will barbeque first then jam next.

I love this idea.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I think it works both ways for me personally @Dr. Gonzo when I try and share information I learn too. Good example is taking the drum samples and just using them to burn through finger sessions (tapping like im on steroids) vs programming them in. It's honestly so much work but the end product is so rewarding. Then you end up watching all kinds of weird videos where folks are doing finger gymnastics on a Maschine MK 3 and you wonder when you'll ever get that good only to realize you really dont need to be that good you just need to know what you want and program it in. 

I cant wait to go back into a jam room or a studio and meet folks and just play now because I feel like I'll waste all this knowledge if I dont start playing with other people soon.

The videos of people finger drumming are pretty mental.

Weirdly, I feel like I'm pretty decent at finger drumming when I don't have a metronome/click track in my ear and am just keeping tempo by tapping my foot. Once I introduce a click track (which tbh, is whenever I am recording) my brain breaks - which I think is fucking weird because I'm fine with playing along with a metronome on guitar - and I can no longer keep timing at all.

And then I go on YouTube and I watch some guy making playing insane shite on their Maschine and I think "what the fuck, I could never do that" - but like you say, I'm not sure I ever would be that good... and I don't think I'd ever need to be that good. Tbh, I think my method of editting pre-made grooves might be "cheating" ...but who gives a shit. I think it's actually pretty useful doing the hybrid approach of programming drums and also playing with your fingers (also... I like using the MIDI keys more than the drum pads - I would not have thought that would be the case, but I'm better at staying in time with the keys, for whatever reason).

I am fortunate that I'm in a city that's coping pretty well with the pandemic now - a lot has returned to normal and a part of that has been that I've been reunited with my jam crew and we've gotten a few jams in this year after over a year of not playing music with each other. My pal is coming over this upcoming weekend to do the bass bits of the song I'm working on - so I'll be able to delete my incredibly rudimentary and really shite MIDI bass track . It is nice being able to play music with my friends again, and hopefully soon you'll be able to play music with other people again because it is absolutely shit not being able to.

[Happy Blue]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It was great playing and the tone was wicked (and the phone mic probably didn't even do it justice!)

Thanks mate, i miss a note or two in nearly ever song  super sloppy at times lol  ..no, the phone kept clipping out so didn't capture all the sound, will figure out how to record properly when i get time

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

Thanks mate, i miss a note or two in nearly ever song  super sloppy at times lol  ..no, the phone kept clipping out so didn't capture all the sound, will figure out how to record properly when i get time

Recording from an actual speaker cabinet is a pain in the arse, imo. Every time I've ever tried to do it, when I've heard what I've recorded back I just think "wow that sounded absolutely nothing like what I expected it to"

I feel you with the super sloppiness - missed notes, playing something on the wrong fret, shite like that... I am a man who needs regular practice otherwise slop finds it's way into my playing ; but honestly, I think making more of an effort recording myself is doing a good job at slowly making me a less sloppy player. Slowly as fuck though 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Hmmm... I was about to purchase SuperiorDrummer3 but then I saw the amount of hard drive space it'll take up and I'm having second thoughts. It's almost 300GB(!) - and it's about 100 quid more than I thought the price was (because I'd seen the crossgrade price rather than the first time purchaser price)!

I'm sure it's worth it long term... but I'm already looking at buying software + monitors in the short, to fairly short, term. And I don't really want to buy a new internal hard drive on top of that too.

But I really want a new bit of software in the short term to help me out with my songwriting ASAP 

[Happy Blue]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Recording from an actual speaker cabinet is a pain in the arse, imo. Every time I've ever tried to do it, when I've heard what I've recorded back I just think "wow that sounded absolutely nothing like what I expected it to"

I feel you with the super sloppiness - missed notes, playing something on the wrong fret, shite like that... I am a man who needs regular practice otherwise slop finds it's way into my playing ; but honestly, I think making more of an effort recording myself is doing a good job at slowly making me a less sloppy player. Slowly as fuck though 

You will notice more mistakes now you are recording yourself   ..practice makes perfect as they say, keep at it  ..i only play on my own and for fun so alot of bad habits have crept in, i play power cords mostly with my first finger & little figure because it's comfy lol  

[Mel81x+]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But I really want a new bit of software in the short term to help me out with my songwriting ASAP 

Doesn't Cakewalk have a Drums builder in it? I could have sworn it does. 

 

[Mel81x+]

2 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

You will notice more mistakes now you are recording yourself   ..practice makes perfect as they say, keep at it  ..i only play on my own and for fun so alot of bad habits have crept in, i play power cords mostly with my first finger & little figure because it's comfy lol  

Is there really any other way? haha. I mean first and ring finger gets tiring after a while but then you have no reach to hit notes but I'd imagine with time that becomes a non-issue as you get used to it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

You will notice more mistakes now you are recording yourself   ..practice makes perfect as they say, keep at it  ..i only play on my own and for fun so alot of bad habits have crept in, i play power cords mostly with my first finger & little figure because it's comfy lol  

Yeah, the first time I recorded myself and played it back this year... I only heard the mistakes 

A lot of people play powerchords like that - I don't think there's anything wrong with it really. Especially in metal, playing power chords like that can be pretty useful... I've tried to do that before, but it felt too unnatural from years of not playing power chords like that . One of my bad habits is a really common one - I probably don't use my little finger enough and probably stretch with my ring finger more than I should.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Doesn't Cakewalk have a Drums builder in it? I could have sworn it does. 

 

It does, but it is VERY shit. That free plugin MT Powerdrums2 absolutely puts all Cakewalk stock drum capabilities to absolute shame. But it's still a bit limited compared to the 3 I'd listed before.

I tried the free version of the Steve Slate Drums plugin and I absolutely hated the UI - watching videos of the other 3 basically convinced me I'd much rather pay money for one of those three. I think maybe in the future once I'm doing this more, that'll be time to invest in the 400 quid software. After I've added a nice SSD to my PC as well.

Just looking around at Sweetwater, I think I've got two options if I want to buy something now (like my brain is telling me to, although it's a very impulsive brain):

• AddictiveDrums2 has a bundle sale right now on Sweetwater - 150 for the plugin + 2 expansion packs (various packs are available, I think I would likely go with the "metal" set)
• EZDrummer2 has a bundle available - 150 for the plugin + 1 expansion pack of my choice.

One advantage with EZDrummer2 is when I am ready and able to upgrade to SuperiorDrummer... I can pay for the crossgrade price (rather than pay full price) and all of the expansion packs I end up purchasing for EZD will work with SuperiorDrummer. So that might be the way to go.

[Happy Blue]

8 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Is there really any other way? haha. I mean first and ring finger gets tiring after a while but then you have no reach to hit notes but I'd imagine with time that becomes a non-issue as you get used to it.

I can play the normal way with the 1st & 3rd finger but your right, that way is more tiring on the hand ..what ever works i guess lol

[Happy Blue]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah, the first time I recorded myself and played it back this year... I only heard the mistakes 

A lot of people play powerchords like that - I don't think there's anything wrong with it really. Especially in metal, playing power chords like that can be pretty useful... I've tried to do that before, but it felt too unnatural from years of not playing power chords like that . One of my bad habits is a really common one - I probably don't use my little finger enough and probably stretch with my ring finger more than I should.

You can stretch with your ring finger? mine has very little side ways movement  a power cord is as far as it will go ..my little finger moves far though 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

You can stretch with your ring finger? mine has very little side ways movement  a power cord is as far as it will go ..my little finger moves far though 

Yeah my ring finger is super stretchy tbh. It’s pretty handy tbh, but it’s definitely led to some bad habits. I’ve been using my pinky more and more over the years.

I ended up getting EZ Drummer and holy shit EZ is fucking right - can get a good drum beat that sounds pretty good in just a few minutes. It had previously taken me DAYS to program midi drums that were… way fucking worse than what I can do in about 5 minutes with this.

[Happy Blue]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah my ring finger is super stretchy tbh. It’s pretty handy tbh, but it’s definitely led to some bad habits. I’ve been using my pinky more and more over the years.

I ended up getting EZ Drummer and holy shit EZ is fucking right - can get a good drum beat that sounds pretty good in just a few minutes. It had previously taken me DAYS to program midi drums that were… way fucking worse than what I can do in about 5 minutes with this.

Bet you can do that Star Trek thing that spock does  ..can you get blast beats with it and double kick? might have to check that out

[Dr. Gonzo]

14 minutes ago, Happy Blue said:

Bet you can do that Star Trek thing that spock does  ..can you get blast beats with it and double kick? might have to check that out

You can with some of the kits if you get the death metal pack - which is the one I chose with the free expansion (offer going until the end of the month btw). There’s an Andy Sneap expansion on there too and a few other metal ones.

[Happy Blue]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You can with some of the kits if you get the death metal pack - which is the one I chose with the free expansion (offer going until the end of the month btw). There’s an Andy Sneap expansion on there too and a few other metal ones.

Bit pricey  ..i normally just play alone to drummers on you tube 

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

Bit pricey  ..i normally just play alone to drummers on you tube 

Yeah it’s definitely not cheap! Especially if you want more MIDI grooves or different kits.

I can’t believe the price of Superior Drummer - it’s over twice what I paid for EZ Drummer with an expansion pack.

I’m sure it’s great cos I’m very impressed with the cheaper and more simple drumming software (that still isn’t that cheap lol). I know it can do everything what I’ve bought can and also a bit more.

At the end of the day, there’s a few free options to do the same thing. That MT PowerKit2 I linked to a few weeks back is a very good sounding kit - the MIDI groves aren’t the best, but they’re not the worst either. And you can edit them in your DAW’s piano roll - there’s a few decent videos on YouTube on how to do that.

I’m also pretty sure Pro Tools has its own stock drum kit. I dunno how good it, but it’s probably better than the stock one that Cakewalk had. So you can try fucking around with that one too.

But it is insanely time consuming and that’s why I turned to EZ Drummer 

[Happy Blue]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah it’s definitely not cheap! Especially if you want more MIDI grooves or different kits.

I can’t believe the price of Superior Drummer - it’s over twice what I paid for EZ Drummer with an expansion pack.

I’m sure it’s great cos I’m very impressed with the cheaper and more simple drumming software (that still isn’t that cheap lol). I know it can do everything what I’ve bought can and also a bit more.

At the end of the day, there’s a few free options to do the same thing. That MT PowerKit2 I linked to a few weeks back is a very good sounding kit - the MIDI groves aren’t the best, but they’re not the worst either. And you can edit them in your DAW’s piano roll - there’s a few decent videos on YouTube on how to do that.

I’m also pretty sure Pro Tools has its own stock drum kit. I dunno how good it, but it’s probably better than the stock one that Cakewalk had. So you can try fucking around with that one too.

But it is insanely time consuming and that’s why I turned to EZ Drummer 

Yeah, i think for what i do i will find a free or really cheap one 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

Yeah, i think for what i do i will find a free or really cheap one 

Personally, I hated the UI for this - but functionally, I think it's the best option as a free choice: https://www.stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/#SSD5FREE - the full paid version, though, is about the same as EZ Drummer.

It's a very popular plugin, so I know that some people don't have the same issues getting around in the software that I did (and I'm sure with time I could have learned it). It's a high quality sounding kit and you get a lot more functionality generally than you do from most other free drum software. Something  SSD Free has over MTPowerDrums is you get more than one kit (I think you get 3), and there's more samples for each piece of the drum kit - so you get a bit of variety and humanisation within the program. 

You should also check out what comes with your ProTools - I think ProTools is meant to have some of the better stock virtual instruments (I dunno if that's the expensive version or not). The ProTools MIDI piano roll editor also looks much easier to work with than the Cakewalk one I've been using, and honestly the piano roll editing is probably what I like least about programming drum parts.

There's a lot of different ways to go about programming MIDI drums with these free resources - and while I don't think I'm really... good at it... I've been pretty focused on understanding MIDI drums for about a month now. So if you've got any questions on what to do - I'm happy to help.

If you just want drums to keep time instead of using a metronome, you might find you don't even need to bother with editing the MIDI beat... and then it's a no brainer to go with something free  - but just know that if you do have something more "specific" in your mind and you'd like the drum track to be what you're imagining... that's always possible to do as well. It's just a lot more time consuming.

You can also build up the drums from scratch - this is the most time consuming though. And I found this was easiest to do by breaking the drums down into sections - I'd usually start with hi-hat sounds, then move on to snares & kick drums (sometimes on the same track together, sometimes kick by itself & snare by itself), then toms, then crashes and the other symbols.

But you've certainly got good free options.

[Happy Blue]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Personally, I hated the UI for this - but functionally, I think it's the best option as a free choice: https://www.stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/#SSD5FREE - the full paid version, though, is about the same as EZ Drummer.

It's a very popular plugin, so I know that some people don't have the same issues getting around in the software that I did (and I'm sure with time I could have learned it). It's a high quality sounding kit and you get a lot more functionality generally than you do from most other free drum software. Something  SSD Free has over MTPowerDrums is you get more than one kit (I think you get 3), and there's more samples for each piece of the drum kit - so you get a bit of variety and humanisation within the program. 

You should also check out what comes with your ProTools - I think ProTools is meant to have some of the better stock virtual instruments (I dunno if that's the expensive version or not). The ProTools MIDI piano roll editor also looks much easier to work with than the Cakewalk one I've been using, and honestly the piano roll editing is probably what I like least about programming drum parts.

There's a lot of different ways to go about programming MIDI drums with these free resources - and while I don't think I'm really... good at it... I've been pretty focused on understanding MIDI drums for about a month now. So if you've got any questions on what to do - I'm happy to help.

If you just want drums to keep time instead of using a metronome, you might find you don't even need to bother with editing the MIDI beat... and then it's a no brainer to go with something free  - but just know that if you do have something more "specific" in your mind and you'd like the drum track to be what you're imagining... that's always possible to do as well. It's just a lot more time consuming.

You can also build up the drums from scratch - this is the most time consuming though. And I found this was easiest to do by breaking the drums down into sections - I'd usually start with hi-hat sounds, then move on to snares & kick drums (sometimes on the same track together, sometimes kick by itself & snare by itself), then toms, then crashes and the other symbols.

But you've certainly got good free options.

Cheers, i will have a look at that   ..i opened ProTools, was like  and closed it again   ..going to have to wait till i have a lot of free time, i don't even connect my phone to the car, i'm old school, all this new tech is confusing