Man City 2-2 Tottenham - Saturday 17th August, 2019

[Stan]

27 minutes ago, Dan said:

Taking their time a bit aren't they? VAR has been around for 2+ years.

Oh come on. You can't say it's not improved at all since it first came about. 

Some of the decisions on the first weekend of the season were done very quickly and without some fans even noticing. 

There were times where it took about 2-3 minutes for a decision. Pretty sure none of the decisions so far in the Premier League have taken that long. 

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Oh come on. You can't say it's not improved at all since it first came about. 

Some of the decisions on the first weekend of the season were done very quickly and without some fans even noticing. 

There were times where it took about 2-3 minutes for a decision. Pretty sure none of the decisions so far in the Premier League have taken that long. 

Football isn't about being perfect Stan.

As soon as it is it's dead!

[LFCMike]

7 hours ago, Stan said:

Oh come on. You can't say it's not improved at all since it first came about. 

Some of the decisions on the first weekend of the season were done very quickly and without some fans even noticing. 

There were times where it took about 2-3 minutes for a decision. Pretty sure none of the decisions so far in the Premier League have taken that long. 

The Wolves goal v United took about that the other night, I'm pretty sure. When they were drawing all those silly lines on the screen. 

I was open minded to VAR when it was first suggested and seeing it in the World Cup. Maybe I thought it was ok in the World Cup because I wasn't really emotionally involved in any of the games. After seeing it in the Premier League so far though, it's not for me unless some serious changes are made with regards to what it's used for

[RandoEFC+]

19 hours ago, Stan said:

Okay, I'm gonna open this can of worms because it's simply not true. Just not the case. 

Here's a few snippets/examples:

So I think VAR at its best - and it still needs to be honed to make sure it's at its best and that might take a period of time - to give the referees more eyes to get decisions right is a no-brainer. - Frank Lampard https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48051342

But from my professional perspective, I like the feeling of a right decision coming. It's a penalty or not a penalty, it's handball or not handball, it's a red card or not a red card. I think a fair decision is a feeling that I like - Jose Mourinho https://www.newsweek.co.uk/premier-league-managers-divide-opinion-var-535279

"I think we have to try and analyze if it's possible to help the sport to make better decisions, even for the referee. We have to try using video technology in the Premier League. In every single team sport technology helps us to make better decisions. Why not [in] football? - Mauricio Pellegrino https://www.newsweek.co.uk/premier-league-managers-divide-opinion-var-535279

If we can have something that helps the referees to take a better decision I am happy to see it in a good way. - Carlos Carvahal

England have good referees. If we review the mistakes, we have less mistakes. If they can do their job better with the help of technology, we must try to help the referees. So, for me, it's important we help the referees. - Javi Gracia

For penalties and free-kicks, it's good. Same for red cards. I think it's the new revolution in football, it's good for football." - Marouane Fellaini after the last World Cup

"It has brought a good honest assessment of what happens in the box. More situations are being punished. - Roberto Martinez

'It's been one of the most entertaining World Cups in a while, especially with VAR. It brings a different entertainment. When there are penalty shouts and the ref makes that (VAR) sign, it brings another element. It's exciting. - Raheem Sterling https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784088-how-the-players-feel-about-use-of-var-at-the-world-cup

 

 

Now obviously I don't think it's all 100% right now and I'm well aware there's several managers/players who don't like it. It's dividing. It's polarising. But let's not act like everyone is against the use of VAR in the game.

This is the internet Stan, your facts and actual quotes aren't welcome here.

The one thing I've noticed about the VAR debate which is weird is that the people on the anti-VAR side of the argument won't accept any point of view from the other side. Most people just seem to be taking really extreme positions about it ruining the game, making it shite, and deliberately skewing arguments to make it sound like VAR is routinely taking 10 minutes to rule out goals because someone's pube or eyelash is offside.

There are valid criticisms of VAR but if we're going to have the discussion can we at least be realistic about what the problems are?

If you don't like the rule about a shoulder or hip being offside then at least acknowledge that has nothing to do with VAR. What is actually happening in these instances is that VAR is exploiting a problem with the rules. Somebody said on the last page that maybe we should change the rule so that your foot/leg/head should be the body parts that can get you played offside rather than the "any playable body part" rule that currently exists. This is a good suggestion for me, because it is a bit farcical to see players called offside for leaning their shoulder 2cm closer to goal than the last man like Sterling against West Ham. As long as the rule is the way it is though, those are the rules and it isn't the fault of VAR that they have to check whose shoulder is where on the pitch.

The handball one really is stupid. I don't think you should be allowed to score with your hand even if it's accidental. However, if the ball accidentally comes off someone's hand like Laporte had in a way that it could go anywhere, I don't see why that's an infringement. I also think this new rule where any contact with the arm in the box is a penalty, while acknowledging that they are trying to get rid of the interpretation of intention vs accident, is a bit too far. On that one I'd rather see the officials use common sense, especially now that they have VAR to help analyse the incident, instead of punishing people for having arms when someone twats the ball at the side of their body.

There are clear issues with VAR's implementation but I still think you have to give it a lot longer before wanting to put it in the bin. The problems discussed so far are more to do with rules than VAR itself but the stadium experience and delayed goal celebrations are valid concerns. Let's just see how they try to address that though, it's too soon to say that it's unfixable and that it will ruin football forever.

[LFCMadLad]

7 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

This is the internet Stan, your facts and actual quotes aren't welcome here.

The one thing I've noticed about the VAR debate which is weird is that the people on the anti-VAR side of the argument won't accept any point of view from the other side. Most people just seem to be taking really extreme positions about it ruining the game, making it shite, and deliberately skewing arguments to make it sound like VAR is routinely taking 10 minutes to rule out goals because someone's pube or eyelash is offside.

There are valid criticisms of VAR but if we're going to have the discussion can we at least be realistic about what the problems are?

If you don't like the rule about a shoulder or hip being offside then at least acknowledge that has nothing to do with VAR. What is actually happening in these instances is that VAR is exploiting a problem with the rules. Somebody said on the last page that maybe we should change the rule so that your foot/leg/head should be the body parts that can get you played offside rather than the "any playable body part" rule that currently exists. This is a good suggestion for me, because it is a bit farcical to see players called offside for leaning their shoulder 2cm closer to goal than the last man like Sterling against West Ham. As long as the rule is the way it is though, those are the rules and it isn't the fault of VAR that they have to check whose shoulder is where on the pitch.

The handball one really is stupid. I don't think you should be allowed to score with your hand even if it's accidental. However, if the ball accidentally comes off someone's hand like Laporte had in a way that it could go anywhere, I don't see why that's an infringement. I also think this new rule where any contact with the arm in the box is a penalty, while acknowledging that they are trying to get rid of the interpretation of intention vs accident, is a bit too far. On that one I'd rather see the officials use common sense, especially now that they have VAR to help analyse the incident, instead of punishing people for having arms when someone twats the ball at the side of their body.

There are clear issues with VAR's implementation but I still think you have to give it a lot longer before wanting to put it in the bin. The problems discussed so far are more to do with rules than VAR itself but the stadium experience and delayed goal celebrations are valid concerns. Let's just see how they try to address that though, it's too soon to say that it's unfixable and that it will ruin football forever.

VAR is shit, whichever way you look at it

 Football was miles better before it and that is not even debatable. 

Maybe I'm wrong and my toenail is slightly off? 

What a load of ..   

[Stan]

16 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 The one thing I've noticed about the VAR debate which is weird is that the people on the anti-VAR side of the argument won't accept any point of view from the other side

 

8 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

VAR is shit, whichever way you look at it

 Football was miles better before it and that is not even debatable. 

Maybe I'm wrong and my toenail is slightly off? 

What a load of ..   

Yep. Point proven

 

[FootyFiles]

On 22/08/2019 at 17:34, Storts said:

Don’t think City dominating the game should have anything to do with this though. I also don’t think this a VAR issue. I’m no fan of it but in this instance it did its job perfectly. It spotted the deviation off the arm into the path of the striker who scored - meaning it rightly disallowed the goal. Where the dispute should and could come is with the rule change but let’s not forget this is something Pep wanted last season. Frustrating for them to fall foul of it - but overall VAR was applied correctly and successfully on this occasion.  

Welcome to the forums. If you want to know who to trust and who not to there is a solid hierarchy list in general chat to follow

I have no doubt that it was used correctly, and get that the new rules were followed to the T. I think because it's new (the rule) it just feels like they were robbed of a goal, which in a sense they were. Would've been a goal last season.

 

Regardless, I'm hoping that if VAR is here to stay, there's a way of improving it for the fans. Every game I've been to now is a goal goes in, everyone cheers the  turns to watch the big screen for the VAR update. I know there's a big debate going around that, but for me personally, it's just frustrating having to wait for confirmation every time.

 

And thanks for the welcome.