Man Utd 1-1 Liverpool - Sunday 20th October, 2019

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@Grizzly21 @Stan the 5 percent stat is a load of bollocks. First of all  it's actually contentious. Many people debate it. Also even if it is true it has actually improved the  key decisions more than that. Most decisions aren't checked so it makes it seem as if var isn't improving decisions as much as it is. Brian you are entitled to your opinion but you are so against VAR it means you are not looking at it logically and it's quite easy to see from an outsider how bad your arguments are. 

 

Again, I don't give a shit about it improving decisions as to me the game was just fine as it was.

My arguments are the same as everyone else who opposes VAR, so I guess we're all flat earthers and are wrong? You sound like Teso opposing Liverpool. If we have an agenda, yours are just as bad.

I won't care for correct decisions that are made by VAR because I don't watch football due to a decision being right or wrong.

[Guest]

Just now, Grizzly21 said:

Again, I don't give a shit about it improving decisions as to me the game was just fine as it was.

My arguments are the same as everyone else who opposes VAR, so I guess we're all flat earthers and are wrong? You sound like Teso opposing Liverpool. If we have an agenda, yours are just as bad.

I won't care for correct decisions that are made by VAR because I don't watch football because I liked the rules.

No there not. I've never seen anyone say they didn't celebrate a goal because they were worried it might get disaload. Also saying I didn't watch football because it was fair is just bizarre.

[Burning Gold]

18 minutes ago, Danny said:

What’s the crack with Naby Keita? Looked decent when he came on and tried to attack the game centrally with his passing? He was meant to be a big signing wasn’t he?

Think United might get too much praise, they played well to shut Liverpool out but they didn’t really create a lot throughout the game and I’m not sure what direction OGS is trying to take them in? I’m not sure I saw a performance today where you can say OK they’re going to look to do this, this and this to get results. The game plan seems to be just hope Dan James’ pace will be enough on the break

I think it's fair to say he's struggled to settle. Injuries haven't helped, and he looked good when he finally got a run of games together towards the end of last season, but largely he's failed to reproduce what he was achieving in Germany. He's still very much in the picture and I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd started today were it not for another injury which meant today was his first appearance of the season.

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Agree on origi. We are so thin in attack for a team that's looking to compete for honours in multiple tournaments. I hope we make a move in January. 

Today I genuinely swung slightly on this issue from having been a defender the whole time. It would have been ridiculous to overrule the first goal because of a foul at the other end before, even a foul that was more clear cut than today's. Too much time had passed from the original incident.

The third goal, we were waiting at the centre circle and noone knew why... FFS.

I don't oppose VAR but I think it needs some major changes to be improved. For starters limiting the scope of its use more than at present.

 

Happily accept this is an aspect of VAR that needs improving. Communication for fans inside the stadium definitely needs to be intensified. Clarity for fans should be a high priority.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

No there not. I've never seen anyone say they didn't celebrate a goal because they were worried it might get disaload. Also saying I didn't watch football because it was fair is just bizarre.

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's true.

I've seen plenty of people not celebrate goals myself included.

Again, I didn't start watching football because it was a fair sport. I watched it because I loved the spontaneity and the spectacle that came with it. The tactical part of the sport, etc. Not because "OMG THE RULEZ ARE AMAZESAUCE, ITS A DARN SHAME THEY AREN'T WELL ENFORCED LMFAO"

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I won't care for correct decisions that are made by VAR because I don't watch football due to a decision being right or wrong.

Peru are in the World Cup final playing against Team X. 0-0. 90 minutes have passed.

X score but their attacker is clearly offside by a few yards. Somehow the officials have missed it. The goal is given.

Are you seriously telling me you won't care for that decision to be overturned? Or you'd happily lose the World Cup final due to a goal that shouldn't have really been given?

I find it hard to believe you'd be happy that you lost the World Cup in that scenario and would have made peace with that instantly.

[Stan]

Just now, Grizzly21 said:

I watched it because I loved the spontaneity and the spectacle that came with it. The tactical part of the sport, etc. Not because "OMG THE RULEZ ARE AMAZESAUCE, ITS A DARN SHAME THEY AREN'T WELL ENFORCED LMFAO"

VAR hasn't changed tactics

Also, the spontaneity and spectacle of the sport is still there. It hasn't been totally eradicated.

Again, an exaggeration to emphasise your point/agenda but actually isn't true.

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

Peru are in the World Cup final playing against Team X. 0-0. 90 minutes have passed.

X score but their attacker is clearly offside by a few yards. Somehow the officials have missed it. The goal is given.

Are you seriously telling me you won't care for that decision to be overturned? Or you'd happily lose the World Cup final due to a goal that shouldn't have really been given?

I find it hard to believe you'd be happy that you lost the World Cup in that scenario and would have made peace with that instantly.

Look up a Peru fan's experience on news websites.

We have been plagued over the years with handball and offside goals, wrongly disallowed goals and soft red cards in our history. I've lived through it even without VAR. I hated the referees for it, never once did I ask for this to be implemented though. Obviously I would be annoyed if the hypothetical situation happened, but it's better to have that not be overturned, than it not be overturned with a machine at hand. It raises the stakes for the referees.

Of course, we can't say the sport would be good if it was just bad decision after bad decision, but I honestly didn't think it was that awful to implement something that only slows down the game. Nudge a while back posted a stat that referee decisions were at 92% before VAR. Not all that bad innit?

 

[Guest]

@Grizzly21 just because I didn't start watching football because of fairness doesn't mean I don't want it to he fair. It's a absolutely ridiculous argument. 

 Like I said I don't know anyone who hasn't celebrated a goal (unless it is clearly being reviewed) just because it might be disaload. Just because a few people feel they can't celebrate untill they know it will definitely stand doesn't mean we get rid of it. Most still celebrate when a goal is scored.

[Guest]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

Just because a few people feel they can't celebrate untill they know it will definitely stand doesn't mean we get rid of it. Most still celebrate when a goal is scored.

Most of the people I follow on twitter don't know whether to celebrate and I was never sure either back at the Copa America. 

That is a generalization so you can't take that for granted, but neither can I take your argument for granted because you are also generalizing. There's got to be some sort of stat regarding that. A survey of some sort would represent it.

[Guest]

@Grizzly21 of referees are getting 92 percent of decisions right stop calling them shit. 

Also if they were 92percent then that means they can only get better by 8 percent so 5 percent is quite a big difference

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@Grizzly21 of referees are getting 92 percent of decisions right stop calling them shit. 

Erm, I never did?

The game was just fine before VAR.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Of course, we can't say the sport would be good if it was just bad decision after bad decision

You said earlier this is what you want though? 

 

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

That is a generalization so you can't take that for granted, but neither can I take your argument for granted because you are also generalizing. There's got to be some sort of stat regarding that. A survey of some sort would represent it.

Are you asking for @Gunnersauraus to prove to you that people still celebrate when a goal is scored?! Look at all the goals that are scored in any game pretty much these days  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said:

Most of the people I follow on twitter don't know whether to celebrate and I was never sure either back at the Copa America. 

That is a generalization so you can't take that for granted, but neither can I take your argument for granted because you are also generalizing. There's got to be some sort of stat regarding that. A survey of some sort would represent it.

Most people you follow are anti var by the sound of it hardly surprising you get that stat.

Let's ask a few in here @LFCMadLad @Dan you guys are against var.  Unlike Brian you put forward good arguments not ridiculous ones. Would you celebrate a goal of there was no sign it was going to be disaload or do you hold back a bit because it might be disaload?

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

You said earlier this is what you want though? 

I'm being hypothetical. Imagine if the game was every decision being a mistake. If it truly was horrible, then the standard of refereeing is definitely flawed.

By stats, it wasn't. By judgement, maybe to an extent. Some referees had shockers for sure. I didn't think it was bad enough to have to do something about it though. Human mistakes were part of the game and with VAR, they still are.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Unlike Brian you put forward good arguments not ridiculous ones.

I see. Every argument I put is ridiculous because of "my history". Get fucked in that sense.

[Guest]

@Stan good point

1 minute ago, Stan said:

You said earlier this is what you want though? 

 

Are you asking for @Gunnersauraus to prove to you that people still celebrate when a goal is scored?! Look at all the goals that are scored in any game pretty much these days  

@Stan you can't reason with someone who has their mind made up. I will admit I was for var but I haven't been happy with some of the application of it this season. I think it's fine for offsides but if var is never gonna overall or advice a referee that a penalty decision is wrong what is the point in having it for penalties. Unlike Brian I don't have a fixed opinion. I also know it might take a bit of time. You don't just get rid of something because it needs improvement

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I see. Every argument I put is ridiculous because of "my history". Get fucked in that sense.

On var most of your arguments have been bad. On most subjects you are very good. You put a good argument the other day for why you thought Japan is better than Mexico. Which I actually said you had a good point on. I don't give you any credit on your var arguments because they are terrible and based to much on emotion. 

[Burning Gold]

11 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Of course, we can't say the sport would be good if it was just bad decision after bad decision, but I honestly didn't think it was that awful to implement something that only slows down the game. Nudge a while back posted a stat that referee decisions were at 92% before VAR. Not all that bad innit?

 

Irrelevant, same as the 5% thing. It doesn't matter how many times officials give a throw in to the other team when a defender hoofs it out, or give a goal when their watch literally tells them to. How often do they get the big, difficult decisions correct?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

 

@Stan you can't reason with someone who has their mind made up. I will admit I was for var but I haven't been happy with some of the application of it this season. I think it's fine for offsides but if var is never gonna overall or advice a referee that a penalty decision is wrong what is the point in having it for penalties. Unlike Brian I don't have a fixed opinion. I also know it might take a bit of time. You don't just get rid of something because it needs improvement

If you think Dan and LFCMadLads opinion will be much different, you're sadly mistaken.

I've talked to them about this and they think the same way as me. But you know "He HaS a FiXeD oPiNiOn" are their arguments ridiculous as well? Most of the people I follow on Twitter think the same as well. I guess just because wee young lad Brian puts it in, lets not take it seriously. He's known for "ridiculous arguments" (even though I've provided facts to back up my argument)

[Dan+]

4 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Most people you follow are anti var by the sound of it hardly surprising you get that stat.

Let's ask a few in here @LFCMadLad @Dan you guys are against var.  Unlike Brian you put forward good arguments not ridiculous ones. Would you celebrate a goal of there was no sign it was going to be disaload or do you hold back a bit because it might be disaload?

I celebrate goals naturally but more and more there's a "oh hold on" feel with each one and I don't like the fact you can't fully 'accept' a goal has happened until the game kicks off again. My gripe all along is that this is the 'cost' of VAR, and the benefits aren't actually worth the 'cost', if we're going to lose that instantaneous outpouring emotion of a goal as we've always known it, I at least want the output to be nearly flawless and it hasn't been close - and how long is it gong to take before it is?

I regret bringing VAR up earlier. It's like the football Brexit. The same recycled arguments time and time again. Neither side will budge.

[Burning Gold]

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

If you think Dan and LFCMadLads opinion will be much different, you're sadly mistaken.

I've talked to them about this and they think the same way as me. But you know "He HaS a FiXeD oPiNiOn" are their arguments ridiculous as well? Most of the people I follow on Twitter think the same as well. I guess just because wee young lad Brian puts it in, lets not take it seriously. He's known for "ridiculous arguments" (even though I've provided facts to back up my argument)

If they're going to pretend people don't celebrate goals anymore, then yes...

[Guest]

@Dan fair enough but maybe you will get used to it a bit. Personally I have never worried about a goal being disaload unless there was an indication that it would be. 

[Guest]

Just now, Burning Gold said:

If they're going to pretend people don't celebrate goals anymore, then yes...

We don't pretend.

I'll go back to my Chile example. I actually half celebrated our first goal but thought Flores might have his nose offisde. From there, I just waited about 2 minutes before accepting we have scored.

That's not pretending. If you think that's pretending, then you also have an agenda. As Dan said, neither side will gripe yet one of the 2 accuses the other side of having an agenda as if the opposition is any better really.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

I celebrate goals naturally but more and more there's a "oh hold on" feel with each one and I don't like the fact you can't fully 'accept' a goal has happened until the game kicks off again. My gripe all along is that this is the 'cost' of VAR, and the benefits aren't actually worth the 'cost', if we're going to lose that instantaneous outpouring emotion of a goal as we've always known it, I at least want the output to be nearly flawless and it hasn't been close - and how long is it gong to take before it is?

I regret bringing VAR up earlier. It's like the football Brexit. The same recycled arguments time and time again. Neither side will budge.

Ridiculous argument. Clearly you are agenda filled too. I suppose we should wait on another established member of the forum to jump in, he puts in good arguments not like us.