Trump ends Daca

[Spike]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

No DACA recipient is just some person who couldn't be bothered to go through the paperwork. They're children who came with their parents who had to be under 15 in 2007 (or earlier) when they entered the country - the average age of a DACA recipient is 6.

I've gone from a US student visa, to a working visa, to a Green Card - so I can first handedly attest that there are a lot of foreigners who are willing to put in the hard time and effort to be a legal alien in the USA. And I don't think it's right for people to illegally immigrate here, regardless of how fucked up it might be to be a farmer in a country with a drug war ravaging it...

... but I also don't think it's fair to kick the children of parents to the curb because of the crimes of their parents. And ending DACA won't stem the flow of illegal immigrants - it will simply remove protections from the kids of illegal immigrants. It'll make it less likely that these people get decent educations and legitimate jobs and it turns them to be exploited for below their state's minimum wage like other illegal immigrants unprotected by DACA. That's where you get people afraid to report crimes, because they don't want to talk to authorities because they might get deported. And where you get kids turning to gangs because reasonable legitimate opportunities aren't available.

Considering the US's companies that have spoken most loudly about this DACA decision and wanting to protect their DACA employees: Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc... we can assume that there's some success in these DACA kids who've come to the country with nothing... then going on to make something of themselves when they don't have to be treated like criminals because of the crimes of their parents.

That's why I think the decision to end DACA is both cruel and stupid. It's cruel because it's punishing kids who came to the United States because their parents came illegally. We don't throw kids in prison if their parents rob a bank. And a kid who's come to the US at 6 and has only ever known the US until adulthood being sent to Mexico because of what their parents did in the past is fucked up. And it's stupid because it's 800,000+ taxpayers, employees, employers (probably some have their own businesses), customers that'll all be removed from the US economy if this goes through. And they pay the same taxes as anyone else in America... but don't get the same benefits - so they actually put in the same amount of tax money as a citizen/legal alien... but they don't have the opportunity to pull out the same amount as much.

The most shit thing about DACA in it's present form is it doesn't provide a pathway to citizenship. But when we're talking about the DACA Dreamers, we're not talking about people who decided to cut the line to come here illegally. We're talking about the children those people brought with them who had no say in the matter. And many of these people have take advantage of the opportunity to have better lives than they would otherwise have. Some of these people even served in the military and went to war for the US.

I thought DACA applicants were people up to working age +2 years? I guess I am wrong about that. It is a very weird decision really (I don't see an upside), parents using their children as 'anchor babies' is an actual abused system IMHO. 

[Panflute]

51 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Panflute seems quite hurt that he's seen as a bigot even though he's the only one that has said he's a bigot. Is this a victim complex "meme"?

 

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We were talking about the allegation of me being a 'racist', not the word you keep using compulsively due to your brain damage.

In any case I'm more curious than hurt.

[Panflute]

[Dr. Gonzo]

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

I thought DACA applicants were people up to working age +2 years? I guess I am wrong about that. It is a very weird decision really (I don't see an upside), parents using their children as 'anchor babies' is an actual abused system IMHO. 

They're working age +2 years, but to qualify they have to have moved to the US illegally before 2007 and before they were 15. They've got to renew their status every two years, otherwise they go back to being illegal. They're also not allowed to leave the country unless they've gotten an exemption which is apparently pretty difficult to get.

Anchor babies are a bit different. That's when illegals have a baby in the United States - they now are US citizens. And then I'm assuming that it's abused because being the parent of a US citizen that's not an adult would probably then be on an easier path to legal residence in the United States. Parents of DACA Dreamers are still illegal immigrants.

The economic upside of treating these 800,000+ people like the rest of Americans is gigantic. Firstly, they pay taxes - which they weren't doing. They can get legitimate jobs at ordinary wages, so they're not undercutting the American labour force by working below minimum wage (dey terk our jerbs!!!!). And they can go to public universities and get qualifications to be part of a higher skilled workforce, which they would have an infinitely harder time (if not an impossible time) doing if they were being punished for their fathers' crimes. So they work for American companies, paying American taxes, spending their money at American businesses.

There is no real solution for the anchor baby problem unless America re-writes it's rules on what it takes to become a citizen.

I might be a bit biased on this topic because I work with a Dreamer, who's been in the US since he was 5. He doesn't speak a lick of Spanish, he's got an American accent, he watches football and baseball and likes to grill hamburgers. American as fuck imo. But he was able to go to school and get jobs through this program. And he's one of the best workers out of my colleagues. It seems retarded that he could be put in a shit position because of what his parents did. But it looks like Congress will act on this in the next 6 months - and it also looks like Canada wants to take on some Dreamers if America follows through with this - so he might not be sent somewhere he doesn't even speak the language. But I'm assuming if he's deported, they'll probably seize all of his assets as well - so Canada's solution isn't ideal... but I guess what it depends on what the solution would actually be.

Again, I think this is all a distraction from the natural disasters facing America with a woefully underfunded and understaffed FEMA and the Russia investigation.

[6666]

17 minutes ago, Panflute said:

We were talking about the allegation of me being a 'racist', not the word you keep using compulsively due to your brain damage.

In any case I'm more curious than hurt.

So it's not about the word "bigot" which you were the first to say you were in this thread and then decided to make it about people thinking you're a bigot and how you're actually not... It's actually about a different word that comes under the umbrella of bigotry even though it was the word "bigot" that actually triggered you in some way and is now causing you to act like an imbecile? Interesting.

You seem to be having a breakdown.

[Panflute]

25 minutes ago, 6666 said:

So it's not about the word "bigot" which you were the first to say you were in this thread and then decided to make it about people thinking you're a bigot and how you're actually not... It's actually about a different word that comes under the umbrella of bigotry even though it was the word "bigot" that actually triggered you in some way and is now causing you to act like an imbecile? Interesting.

You seem to be having a breakdown.

I was asking for examples of me being a racist. Whatever interesting frame you try to create is up to you.

Still waiting, by the way.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

I was asking for examples of me being a racist. Whatever interesting frame you try to create is up to you.

Still waiting, by the way.

Who are you waiting for to deliver an example? I didn't call you a racist... don't think anyone seriously called you a racist in here but merely responded to you suggesting there's a "Panflute is a racist" meme that exists that only you know about and they basically just said maybe there's a reason for it as that's just the natural assumption when someone randomly starts screaming "I'm not a racist" when no one was even talking about them.

[Spike]

24 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Who are you waiting for to deliver an example? I didn't call you a racist... don't think anyone seriously called you a racist in here but merely responded to you suggesting there's a "Panflute is a racist" meme that exists that only you know about and they basically just said maybe there's a reason for it as that's just the natural assumption when someone randomly starts screaming "I'm not a racist" when no one was even talking about them.

He is wumming you, ffs.

[6666]

8 minutes ago, Spike said:

He is wumming you, ffs.

He's doing a great job of making me think he's crazy. Fair play to him.