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Trump ends Daca

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(CNN)The Trump administration on Tuesday formally announced the end of DACA -- a program that had protected nearly 800,000 young undocumented immigrants brought to the US as children from deportation.

The Department of Homeland Security will stop processing any new applications for the program as of Tuesday and has formally rescinded the Obama administration policy, Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.

The legal part says they get deported, the emotional part says are you gonna rip 800k people away from their family, and it wasn't their fault that they are here to begin with. Then again that responsibility is because the parent or person who brought them over and should have thought of the repercussions. Also how do you really deport 800k, congress has 6 months to figure it out.

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Reckon there is going to be a surge of marriages now in the next two years. 

 

This won't end well. 

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5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Reckon there is going to be a surge of marriages now in the next two years. 

 

This won't end well. 

As long as they pay the same huge fuckoff fees I did.

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39 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Reckon there is going to be a surge of marriages now in the next two years. 

 

This won't end well. 

When does anything politically end well?

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These are kids that grew up in the country and for the most part are in employment, pay taxes and don't have a criminal record. Other than the motivation being bigotry, I can't think of why he wants this to go ahead. It's like his random decision to ban trans people from the military except this makes even less sense.

Didn't make sense that people didn't recognise him as a clownish conman during the Republican primaries and it makes next to no sense that there are still some that think this man knows what he's doing.

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9 minutes ago, 6666 said:

These are kids that grew up in the country and for the most part are in employment, pay taxes and don't have a criminal record. Other than the motivation being bigotry, I can't think of why he wants this to go ahead. It's like his random decision to ban trans people from the military except this makes even less sense.

Didn't make sense that people didn't recognise him as a clownish conman during the Republican primaries and it makes next to no sense that there are still some that think this man knows what he's doing.

It is a lot cheaper to not have trans/whatever people in the military. Trans under the medical association of USA is a disorder and being a disorder it would need the military to pay for treatments. 

Can you actually prove the motivation is bigotry?

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6 minutes ago, Spike said:

It is a lot cheaper to not have trans/whatever people in the military. Trans under the medical association of USA is a disorder and being a disorder it would need the military to pay for treatments. 

Can you actually prove the motivation is bigotry?

The fact that the cost is minuscule compared to their actual military budget with no one citing it as an issue before Trump and the fact that it would actually cost more to train new soldiers to take their place is enough to prove that targeting trans people wasn't based off of anything logical.

If you want to say it wasn't bigotry but some other moronic reason then maybe you can, I guess a game of "name that mental illness" is always fair when talking about Trump.

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1 minute ago, 6666 said:

The fact that the cost is minuscule compared to their actual military budget with no one citing it as an issue before Trump and the fact that it would actually cost more to train new soldiers to take their place is enough to prove that targeting trans people wasn't based off of anything logical.

If you want to say it wasn't bigotry but some other moronic reason then maybe you can, I guess a game of "name that mental illness" is always fair when talking about Trump.

The fact remains that transgenderism is listed as a mental disease and most of not all mental diseases are barred for recruitment. Even if trans wasn't listed as a mental disease the rate of other mental diseases for trans people is staggeringly high.

I didn't say it wasn't bigotry but I didn't make the claim so the burden of evidence isn't on me.

 

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2 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Congress will pass something to protect the recipients. its all a set-up to fund his wall. 

This is actually completely it. He's doing this and giving congress 6 months for a reason to re do it. It'll make it so it's like "hey we'll keep the 800k but guess what they're paying extra taxes for the wall or something along those lines.

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4 hours ago, Panflute said:

I'm a bigot and I approve of this.

I feel this is something you'd hear at a bigots anonymous meeting.

"My name is Shane and I approve of the deportation of Mexican children. I hates coloureds too"

All joking aside ... question: why do you approve of this?

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6 hours ago, Cicero said:

Reckon there is going to be a surge of marriages now in the next two years. 

 

This won't end well. 

Look what your post did to the ads

:rofl:

Screenshot_20170906-002655.png

  • Haha 2

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On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 10:37 AM, Panflute said:

I'm a bigot and I approve of this.

Why? Seems pretty harsh for kids who came to the country with no say of their own (because they were kids), grew up in the country, have jobs and pay taxes in the country (without getting the same benefits as other taxpayers). Seems like the biggest problem with DACA was the lack of a pathway to citizenship for these people who are illegal immigrants through no choice of their all. Instead DACA gives/gave them temporary reprieve from deportation and the ability to work legally (and pay taxes).

Unless it's just because they're brown people.

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 0:17 PM, Saturdays Are For The Boys said:

This is actually completely it. He's doing this and giving congress 6 months for a reason to re do it. It'll make it so it's like "hey we'll keep the 800k but guess what they're paying extra taxes for the wall or something along those lines.

I think Congress will step in because the blowback to the decision to end DACA seems to be widespread and on both sides of the US political spectrum. Pro-Business groups, which typically lean Republican, think this is an awful idea. Furthermore, they can't really claim that they'll be collecting extra taxes from Mexican immigrants. Because DACA recipients pay taxes, but they aren't require to pay the IRS penalty for not having healthcare under Obamacare. They also can't get Medicaid. They also can't get federal aid when they are of college aid - but some states have allowed DACA recipients to get state aid.

The CATO Institute thinks ending DACA could take around $200 Billion out of the US Economy. So for a "businessman" to use this as leverage to get Congress to approve for spending of an unnecessary wall... it just seems like the man is saying "take this bad deal, or I'll create a worse deal." Then there's also the moral and ethical questions of using 800,000 people's lives as a bargaining chip to implement an unpopular and expensive proposed policy. But I don't think the man has any concepts of morality or ethics.

Realistically though, I think Congress will be the adults in Washington DC. Particularly because most of what they care about is re-election. Ending DACA is unpopular. The DREAM Act had widespread bipartisan support until a black man became president - perhaps now the support on both sides of the aisle will come back. I personally think this is a move to distract from FEMA being woefully underfunded, with Houston hit by hurricanes, Florida about to get fucked by Irma, and Los Angeles ablaze... as well as the growing Mueller investigation, which is hitting pretty close to home for him and Manafort.

 

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12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why? Seems pretty harsh for kids who came to the country with no say of their own (because they were kids), grew up in the country, have jobs and pay taxes in the country (without getting the same benefits as other taxpayers). Seems like the biggest problem with DACA was the lack of a pathway to citizenship for these people who are illegal immigrants through no choice of their all. Instead DACA gives/gave them temporary reprieve from deportation and the ability to work legally (and pay taxes).

Unless it's just because they're brown people.

I don't care either way about this, just keeping the 'Panflute is a racist' meme alive and it looks like it's working.

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2 hours ago, Panflute said:

I don't care either way about this, just keeping the 'Panflute is a racist' meme alive and it looks like it's working.

I don't know if that counts as a meme tbh.

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36 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't know if that counts as a meme tbh.

Or whatever other term you wish to apply to bullshit.

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Just now, Panflute said:

Or whatever other term you wish to apply to bullshit.

If you don't want people thinking you are seriously a racist, maybe don't say seriously racist things. Or drop one of these :ph34r: 

  • Haha 1

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34 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If you don't want people thinking you are seriously a racist, maybe don't say seriously racist things. Or drop one of these :ph34r: 

What racist things have I said? Concrete examples please.

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2 minutes ago, Panflute said:

What racist things have I said? Concrete examples please.

I'm a bigot and I approve of this.

  • Upvote 1

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2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I'm a bigot and I approve of this.

Sorry, should've dropped a :ph34r: so the retards would've understood the joke.

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Just now, Panflute said:

Sorry, should've dropped a :ph34r: so the retards would've understood the joke.

I'm just taking the piss mate xD

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2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I'm just taking the piss mate xD

Should've dropped a :ph34r: mate stick with the program

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Panflute seems quite hurt that he's seen as a bigot even though he's the only one that has said he's a bigot. Is this a victim complex "meme"?

:ph34r:

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Feel bad for the kids that are put between a rock and a hard place because of this but I am not particularly concerned for the people that just weren't bothered to go through the paperwork; whether it be application for a work-permit or citizenship. Spent plenty of time in government facilities going through bullshit paperwork and 'biometrics' to know there are a lot of foreigners willing to put in the hard time and effort to be a legal alien or citizen of America.  

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3 minutes ago, Spike said:

Feel bad for the kids that are put between a rock and a hard place because of this but I am not particularly concerned for the people that just weren't bothered to go through the paperwork; whether it be application for a work-permit or citizenship. Spent plenty of time in government facilities going through bullshit paperwork and 'biometrics' to know there are a lot of foreigners willing to put in the hard time and effort to be a legal alien or citizen of America.  

No DACA recipient is just some person who couldn't be bothered to go through the paperwork. They're children who came with their parents who had to be under 15 in 2007 (or earlier) when they entered the country - the average age of a DACA recipient is 6.

I've gone from a US student visa, to a working visa, to a Green Card - so I can first handedly attest that there are a lot of foreigners who are willing to put in the hard time and effort to be a legal alien in the USA. And I don't think it's right for people to illegally immigrate here, regardless of how fucked up it might be to be a farmer in a country with a drug war ravaging it...

... but I also don't think it's fair to kick the children of parents to the curb because of the crimes of their parents. And ending DACA won't stem the flow of illegal immigrants - it will simply remove protections from the kids of illegal immigrants. It'll make it less likely that these people get decent educations and legitimate jobs and it turns them to be exploited for below their state's minimum wage like other illegal immigrants unprotected by DACA. That's where you get people afraid to report crimes, because they don't want to talk to authorities because they might get deported. And where you get kids turning to gangs because reasonable legitimate opportunities aren't available.

Considering the US's companies that have spoken most loudly about this DACA decision and wanting to protect their DACA employees: Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc... we can assume that there's some success in these DACA kids who've come to the country with nothing... then going on to make something of themselves when they don't have to be treated like criminals because of the crimes of their parents.

That's why I think the decision to end DACA is both cruel and stupid. It's cruel because it's punishing kids who came to the United States because their parents came illegally. We don't throw kids in prison if their parents rob a bank. And a kid who's come to the US at 6 and has only ever known the US until adulthood being sent to Mexico because of what their parents did in the past is fucked up. And it's stupid because it's 800,000+ taxpayers, employees, employers (probably some have their own businesses), customers that'll all be removed from the US economy if this goes through. And they pay the same taxes as anyone else in America... but don't get the same benefits - so they actually put in the same amount of tax money as a citizen/legal alien... but they don't have the opportunity to pull out the same amount as much.

The most shit thing about DACA in it's present form is it doesn't provide a pathway to citizenship. But when we're talking about the DACA Dreamers, we're not talking about people who decided to cut the line to come here illegally. We're talking about the children those people brought with them who had no say in the matter. And many of these people have take advantage of the opportunity to have better lives than they would otherwise have. Some of these people even served in the military and went to war for the US.

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Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

No DACA recipient is just some person who couldn't be bothered to go through the paperwork. They're children who came with their parents who had to be under 15 in 2007 (or earlier) when they entered the country - the average age of a DACA recipient is 6.

I've gone from a US student visa, to a working visa, to a Green Card - so I can first handedly attest that there are a lot of foreigners who are willing to put in the hard time and effort to be a legal alien in the USA. And I don't think it's right for people to illegally immigrate here, regardless of how fucked up it might be to be a farmer in a country with a drug war ravaging it...

... but I also don't think it's fair to kick the children of parents to the curb because of the crimes of their parents. And ending DACA won't stem the flow of illegal immigrants - it will simply remove protections from the kids of illegal immigrants. It'll make it less likely that these people get decent educations and legitimate jobs and it turns them to be exploited for below their state's minimum wage like other illegal immigrants unprotected by DACA. That's where you get people afraid to report crimes, because they don't want to talk to authorities because they might get deported. And where you get kids turning to gangs because reasonable legitimate opportunities aren't available.

Considering the US's companies that have spoken most loudly about this DACA decision and wanting to protect their DACA employees: Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc... we can assume that there's some success in these DACA kids who've come to the country with nothing... then going on to make something of themselves when they don't have to be treated like criminals because of the crimes of their parents.

That's why I think the decision to end DACA is both cruel and stupid. It's cruel because it's punishing kids who came to the United States because their parents came illegally. We don't throw kids in prison if their parents rob a bank. And a kid who's come to the US at 6 and has only ever known the US until adulthood being sent to Mexico because of what their parents did in the past is fucked up. And it's stupid because it's 800,000+ taxpayers, employees, employers (probably some have their own businesses), customers that'll all be removed from the US economy if this goes through. And they pay the same taxes as anyone else in America... but don't get the same benefits - so they actually put in the same amount of tax money as a citizen/legal alien... but they don't have the opportunity to pull out the same amount as much.

The most shit thing about DACA in it's present form is it doesn't provide a pathway to citizenship. But when we're talking about the DACA Dreamers, we're not talking about people who decided to cut the line to come here illegally. We're talking about the children those people brought with them who had no say in the matter. And many of these people have take advantage of the opportunity to have better lives than they would otherwise have. Some of these people even served in the military and went to war for the US.

I thought DACA applicants were people up to working age +2 years? I guess I am wrong about that. It is a very weird decision really (I don't see an upside), parents using their children as 'anchor babies' is an actual abused system IMHO. 

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51 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Panflute seems quite hurt that he's seen as a bigot even though he's the only one that has said he's a bigot. Is this a victim complex "meme"?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

:ph34r:

 

We were talking about the allegation of me being a 'racist', not the word you keep using compulsively due to your brain damage.

In any case I'm more curious than hurt.

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28 minutes ago, Spike said:

I thought DACA applicants were people up to working age +2 years? I guess I am wrong about that. It is a very weird decision really (I don't see an upside), parents using their children as 'anchor babies' is an actual abused system IMHO. 

They're working age +2 years, but to qualify they have to have moved to the US illegally before 2007 and before they were 15. They've got to renew their status every two years, otherwise they go back to being illegal. They're also not allowed to leave the country unless they've gotten an exemption which is apparently pretty difficult to get.

Anchor babies are a bit different. That's when illegals have a baby in the United States - they now are US citizens. And then I'm assuming that it's abused because being the parent of a US citizen that's not an adult would probably then be on an easier path to legal residence in the United States. Parents of DACA Dreamers are still illegal immigrants.

The economic upside of treating these 800,000+ people like the rest of Americans is gigantic. Firstly, they pay taxes - which they weren't doing. They can get legitimate jobs at ordinary wages, so they're not undercutting the American labour force by working below minimum wage (dey terk our jerbs!!!!). And they can go to public universities and get qualifications to be part of a higher skilled workforce, which they would have an infinitely harder time (if not an impossible time) doing if they were being punished for their fathers' crimes. So they work for American companies, paying American taxes, spending their money at American businesses.

There is no real solution for the anchor baby problem unless America re-writes it's rules on what it takes to become a citizen.

I might be a bit biased on this topic because I work with a Dreamer, who's been in the US since he was 5. He doesn't speak a lick of Spanish, he's got an American accent, he watches football and baseball and likes to grill hamburgers. American as fuck imo. But he was able to go to school and get jobs through this program. And he's one of the best workers out of my colleagues. It seems retarded that he could be put in a shit position because of what his parents did. But it looks like Congress will act on this in the next 6 months - and it also looks like Canada wants to take on some Dreamers if America follows through with this - so he might not be sent somewhere he doesn't even speak the language. But I'm assuming if he's deported, they'll probably seize all of his assets as well - so Canada's solution isn't ideal... but I guess what it depends on what the solution would actually be.

Again, I think this is all a distraction from the natural disasters facing America with a woefully underfunded and understaffed FEMA and the Russia investigation.

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