FC Barcelona Discussion

[Asura]

9 minutes ago, Stan said:

no need to be sorry. we'd be the most dominant club in Spain if we were there. 

wont deny that, especially after you dominated the world's toughest and best league last yr   

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, Spike said:

That is stupid. Why does he even play? Why couldn't he do it the way everyone else does? Why can't he work his way up as an assistant coach? He has his cake and eats it to. 

It is things like this that make me hate all professional footballers. Arrogant creatures full of avarice.

In this one I agree with you and for this particular issue I've argued with friends I have that fervent Barcelona fans. I have nothing to say about Xavi's professional career as a model professional but this last ditch move for money when he doesn't even require it is almost blood thirsty. 

[Spike]

Just now, SirBalon said:

In this one I agree with you and for this particular issue I've argued with friends I have that fervent Barcelona fans. I have nothing to say about Xavi's professional career as a model professional but this last ditch move for money when he doesn't even require it is almost blood thirsty. 

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Xavi as a player on the pitch was a gentlemanly as you could be (the only controversy that I know of and it hasn't been verified was when he told Mourinho to 'hug your Portuguese referee'.). He was of my favourites to watch but he seems to have a big mouth in the media. Seems like he may be a little arrogant behind closed doors but then again most professionals would be. 

[SirBalon]

21 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Xavi as a player on the pitch was a gentlemanly as you could be (the only controversy that I know of and it hasn't been verified was when he told Mourinho to 'hug your Portuguese referee'.). He was of my favourites to watch but he seems to have a big mouth in the media. Seems like he may be a little arrogant behind closed doors but then again most professionals would be. 

His Barça colours run deep and he has come out with odd remarks in the past although totally taken out of context. For me the only thing that ever bothered me about things he said while at Barcelona was his obsession with grass length and how wet it was before kick-off. For me he is the Spanish version of Marcelo Bielsa... Two people of Football OCD.

[Kowabunga]

18 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

His Barça colours run deep and he has come out with odd remarks in the past although totally taken out of context. For me the only thing that ever bothered me about things he said while at Barcelona was his obsession with grass length and how wet it was before kick-off. For me he is the Spanish version of Marcelo Bielsa... Two people of Football OCD.

Hating on the uber-religiousness of Semana Santa but you are cool with the short-grass fanatic cult espoused by Xavi. That's double standards.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Kowabunga

[SirBalon]

Just now, Kowabunga said:

Hating on the uber-religiouness of Semana Santa but you are cool with the short-grass fanatic cult espoused by Xavi. That's double standards.

You know what they say about Green Party voters mate, and I'm one of those. 

[Spike]

14 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

His Barça colours run deep and he has come out with odd remarks in the past although totally taken out of context. For me the only thing that ever bothered me about things he said while at Barcelona was his obsession with grass length and how wet it was before kick-off. For me he is the Spanish version of Marcelo Bielsa... Two people of Football OCD.

The way he talks about other players 'having Barca DNA' always annoys me. Perhaps he doesn't mean it in such a manner but it can be construed as arrogant. Maybe he is just giving his honest opinion and it comes off as 'Barcelona is so great we only take the best'. That's a turn off for a lot of people.  I suppose you are right though, he even got rattled by Inter and mouthed off 'they didn't play real football'. While I agree with him from an aesthetic view-point but I can't really condemn another team playing in any manner as long as they aren't playing murderball, and then maybe his choice of words and the translation isn't fantastic; a lot gets lost in translation; I can read Spanish to an extent but I would struggle to understand the context of the wording. There is more than one way to skin a cat and but I do have my preferences. 

[SirBalon]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

The way he talks about other players 'having Barca DNA' always annoys me. Perhaps he doesn't mean it in such a manner but it can be construed as arrogant. Maybe he is just giving his honest opinion and it comes off as 'Barcelona is so great we only take the best'. That's a turn off for a lot of people.  I suppose you are right though, he even got rattled by Inter and mouthed off 'they didn't play real football'. While I agree with him from an aesthetic view-point but I can't really condemn another team playing in any manner as long as they aren't playing murderball, and then maybe his choice of words and the translation isn't fantastic; a lot gets lost in translation; I can read Spanish to an extent but I would struggle to understand the context of the wording. There is more than one way to skin a cat and but I do have my preferences. 

Trust me, there's no loss in context with those quotes (the aesthetic side to things) mate. He is a football fundamentalist which I can understand where people feel friction with the comments. I don't particularly like them although at the same time I also know he isn't intending to be arrogant or almost condescending. He only believes there's one way to play and that if you can't beat a team by going out there to win (not being scared of losing) then you deserve being told so. I don't like it although at the same time (as many here know) I only see one way of playing the game. Again at the same time I understand why other top sides change their ethics when facing superiority (see how that last bit sounds arrogant and yet I'm not intending it mate?). 

He's been the first to applaud teams that have beating his side playing great football or lauding sides in other lands that are playing something he loves. He isn't insular in the sense of only seeing "Blaugrana", and is more on the side of football being something almost religious and not to be messed with. A radical version of Cruyff?  I reckon so because Cruyff was constantly writing newspaper columns to this effect. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by SirBalon

[Spike]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Trust me, there's no loss in context with those quotes (the aesthetic side to things) mate. He is a football fundamentalist which I can understand where people feel friction with the comments. I don't particularly like them although at the same time I also know he isn't intending to be arrogant or almost condescending. He only believes there's one way to play and that if you can't beat a team by going out there to win (not being scared of losing) then you deserve being told so. I don't like it although at the same time (as many here know) I only see one way of playing the game. At the same time I understand why other top sides change their ethics when facing superiority (see how that last bit sounds arrogant and yet I'm not intending it mate?). 

He's been the first to applaud teams that have beating his side playing great football or lauding sides in other lands that are playing something he loves. He isn't insular in the sense of only seeing "Blaugrana", and is more on the side of football being something almost religious and not to be messed with. A radical version of Cruyff?  I reckon so because Cruyff was constantly writing newspaper columns to this effect. 

Perhaps, but I think he only sees football from the midfield up. People really underappreciate and over criticise defenders. There are two-parts to football, not losing and winning. They are equally important and are two sides to the same coin. That historic Barcelona team would have lost a huge part of it's identity without Puyol, Abidal, Pique, and Alves. One team has to score more goals than the other and the only way for that to happen is for the entire team to work in conjunction. 

Look at Chelsea v Bayern in 2012. One team was horribly average and on it's old and tired last legs and the other stacked to the brim with superstars. Chelsea would have lost 5-0 if they had 'played football'.Being defensive isn't always 'being scared of losing' sometimes it is knowing 'weakness' and playing to 'strengths'. There is nothing cowardly with adjusting style when the chips are down.

[SirBalon]

46 minutes ago, Spike said:

Perhaps, but I think he only sees football from the midfield up. People really underappreciate and over criticise defenders. There are two-parts to football, not losing and winning. They are equally important and are two sides to the same coin. That historic Barcelona team would have lost a huge part of it's identity without Puyol, Abidal, Pique, and Alves. One team has to score more goals than the other and the only way for that to happen is for the entire team to work in conjunction. 

Look at Chelsea v Bayern in 2012. One team was horribly average and on it's old and tired last legs and the other stacked to the brim with superstars. Chelsea would have lost 5-0 if they had 'played football'.Being defensive isn't always 'being scared of losing' sometimes it is knowing 'weakness' and playing to 'strengths'. There is nothing cowardly with adjusting style when the chips are down.

I'm not criticising defenders mate and I don't think Xavi is either.  It's the way a team plays, not the fact that they aren't innocent defensively.  Defenders as Cruyff used to say, are part of the team mechanics and must also be able to provide what those up front do and dominate by using the ball.  I disagree with you on that there aren't teams that come out playing scared to lose...  They do, I see it a lot!  I forgive "smaller" clubs when they do this, but not clubs with massive financial resources.

It's all down to coaching and how a coach sees football in my view.  But this is the way I see the game and I've had many a heated debate on the other forum.  I have no problem with winning by playing with the rules and with respect...  But I will share my opinion because otherwise there's no point in football because the world would be full of Arsenal stadiums watching the game in silence.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

I'm not criticising defenders mate and I don't think Xavi is either.  It's the way a team plays, not the fact that they aren't innocent defensively.  Defenders as Cruyff used to say, are part of the team mechanics and must also be able to provide what those up front do and dominate by using the ball.  I disagree with you on that there aren't teams that come out playing scared to lose...  They do, I see it a lot!  I forgive "smaller" clubs when they do this, but not clubs with massive financial resources.

It's all down to coaching and how a coach sees football in my view.  But this is the way I see the game and I've had many a heated debate on the other forum.  I have no problem with winning by playing with the rules and with respect...  But I will share my opinion because otherwise there's no point in football because the world would be full of Arsenal stadiums watching the game in silence.

I didn't say there aren't teams afraid to lose. I said 'Being defensive isn't always 'being scared of losing' '.

[SirBalon]

Just now, Spike said:

I didn't say there aren't teams afraid to lose. I said 'Being defensive isn't always 'being scared of losing' '.

George Graham always used to say; "If we don't concede, we have a great chance of winning"

Nobody can doubt he was right and we were inevitably known as "Boring, boring Arsenal" on the terraces or even us Arsenal fans chanting "1-0 to the Arsenal... etc... etc..."

It depends how you want to see it.  Another example was Mourinho playing a double-pivot against Barça in La Liga and getting stick even from the most fervent Madrid based journalists.

Some people in football will never accept sides of that ilk resorting to that.  What was it that Che Guevara once famously said?

[Spike]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

George Graham always used to say; "If we don't concede, we have a great chance of winning"

Nobody can doubt he was right and we were inevitably known as "Boring, boring Arsenal" on the terraces or even us Arsenal fans chanting "1-0 to the Arsenal... etc... etc..."

It depends how you want to see it.  Another example was Mourinho playing a double-pivot against Barça in La Liga and getting stick even from the most fervent Madrid based journalists.

Some people in football will never accept sides of that ilk resorting to that.  What was it that Che Guevara once famously said?

'I'm a communist dog and I need to be shot by the CIA'?

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

'I'm a communist dog and I need to be shot by the CIA'?

That quote is better than the one I was thinking off! 

Although hard to implement in football culture. 

[SirBalon]

Luis Enrique: "It was terrible and very sad"

 

Luis Enrique isn't one to ever be auto-critical in press conferences.  He usually leaves things like that for the dressing room and never ever will he give the press an ounce of his thoughts outside the purely football.  Even after the Paris debacle which ended 4-0 did he let it be seen that things were as bad as they looked and only concentrated on what could occur in the return leg...  He almost even had a fight with a journalist from Catalan tv station TV3 that night!  But yesterday was different and that's that the performance wasn't as horrible as the one in Paris.  It's as if something has been confirmed to Luis Enrique and on that side of things you'll never get an ounce of information from the Asturian coach.

These were some of his quotes after the 3-0 defeat in Turin against Juventus.

"It doesn't matter if I think the result is just or not, that's the result and that's all there is.  The first half against Juve today was exactly the same as the third quarter of the game in Paris...  For that to happen to us in such a short space of time is something I've never witnessed and something I certainly never expected.  We were absolutely terrible, it was grave, very grave indeed and I feel impotent."

"Today I'm finding it much more difficult to be optimistic like I was after the game in Paris.  I don't particularly want to talk about the future of this tie.  I'm an optimist by nature but now I need time to think and reflect.  I am 100% responsible for not having been able to transmit to the players what I wanted because that's the most important job for a head coach."

"It's like re-living an nightmare to be honest.  Our positioning was terrible.  In the second half we moved the ball a lot better, but that was due to Juventus getting obviously nervous for some reason and backing off which transmitted itself to the fans and we started to dominate and create more chances.  There's more things I can say in respect but it's not important now because it doesn't matter what could've been due to the could've not having materialised itself.  Only completed actions count in football.  They only thing I lament of the second half is conceding a goal when we were playing the better football...  Actually that hurts a lot more.  Tomorrow is a new day, we'll all get out of our beds and we'll carry on."

The only thing on the return leg;

"Of course we can score 4 goals against Juve.  We can score 4 goals against anyone."

At least Luis Enrique has the courage to be autocratical on his side of things.  Something somebody else doesn't know how to do here in London for so many years.

Edited April 12, 2017 by SirBalon

[Philippe Coutinho]

Why isn't Luis Enrique playing Jordi Alba? He's miles better than any of the other clowns Enrique has been playing. Grossly underrated.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Savvy Xavi said:

Why isn't Luis Enrique playing Jordi Alba? He's miles better than any of the other clowns Enrique has been playing. Grossly underrated.

He hasn't got anything against any player personally or in particular...  That was established with how he treated Aleix Vidal's playing time since he joined FC Barcelona from Sevilla at HIS petition.  He had nothing personal against Vidal, but just wasn't complying with his instructions.  Of all the right-fullbacks offered in a list to Luis Enrique at the time he was obsessed with acquiring Aleix Vidal.

Jordi Alba is one of the best left-fullbacks in the business right now and all of these playing issues that have occurred at Barça (according to insider information from quite some time now with senior journalists) is because he is obsessed with the full-back position and as far as Luis Enrique is concerned all of the varying issues his Barça have been suffering from have their source there.  To be honest I can see where this is coming from although I personally think the main issue is in midfield but don't doubt that the right-back problem is acute.

According to these journalists, because he has serious problems in the right-back position, Luis Enrique playing Alba unbalances the team so he has supposedly had to look for other formations and tactics so as to bypass playing traditional back four full-backs.  Alba is mighty pissed off about this apparently but understands it's nothing he's been doing wrong although he's become a scapegoat of his coach's obsession with that particular position.

Where Guardiola was obsessed with midfields, Luis Enrique is a fanatic of the full-back area.

Edited April 15, 2017 by SirBalon

[Philippe Coutinho]

43 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

He hasn't got anything against any player personally or in particular...  That was established with how he treated Aleix Vidal's playing time since he joined FC Barcelona from Sevilla at HIS petition.  He had nothing personal against Vidal, but just wasn't complying with his instructions.  Of all the right-fullbacks offered in a list to Luis Enrique at the time he was obsessed with acquiring Aleix Vidal.

Jordi Alba is one of the best left-fullbacks in the business right now and all of these playing issues that have occurred at Barça (according to insider information from quite some time now with senior journalists) is because he is obsessed with the full-back position and as far as Luis Enrique is concerned all of the varying issues his Barça have been suffering from have their source there.  To be honest I can see where this is coming from although I personally think the main issue is in midfield but don't doubt that the right-back problem is acute.

According to these journalists, because he has serious problems in the right-back position, Luis Enrique playing Alba unbalances the team so he has supposedly had to look for other formations and tactics so as to bypass playing traditional back four full-backs.  Alba is mighty pissed off about this apparently but understands it's nothing he's been doing wrong although he's become a scapegoat of his coach's obsession with that particular position.

Where Guardiola was obsessed with midfields, Luis Enrique is a fanatic of the full-back area.

Thanks Balon. So you're saying that once the right back situation is addressed once and for all, the team will be more balanced and Alba will be playing more? I certainly hope so! 

Yes, the right back position has been glaringly exposed time and again. Not Sergi Roberto's fault, of course. He's a natural midfielder. I blame the board for not having the foresight to sign someone as a direct replacement for Dani Alves, whom in some ways is irreplaceable. Now that the end of the season is upon us, the acute lack of squad depth has been costing us, with desired results found wanting.

Would love to see a Bellerin (with his Barca DNA) and Cancelo etc. etc. at right back. Cancelo is quality, don't think he'll let the team down as Alcacer and Gomes have.

Let the pipeline of fullbacks from Valencia to Barca commence and resume its normal service :-) 

[Philippe Coutinho]

Pity we probably can't get Carvajal ;-) He's probably the best full-back right now.

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, Savvy Xavi said:

Pity we probably can't get Carvajal ;-) He's probably the best full-back right now.

Since the winding down and soon to retire Philipp Lahm, for me Dani Carvajal is the best right-back in the world right now...  I can't think of one better and is a big part reason for many of Real's "just about" wins this season of which there have been many.  A lot is made of Sergio Ramos' late late goals (nothing to take away there), but it's been Carvajal's endeavour that's caused much of this to happen.

If I'm not mistaken, when Real Madrid re-captured Dani Carvajal from Bayer Leverkusen, he arrived as being voted the best right-back in the Bundesliga that season...  A feat in itself if I'm right considering Lahm was active and how young Carvajal was at the time.

He would NEVER move to Barça!!!

[SirBalon]

10 years since a work of God

 

It's 10 years to the day since Lionel Messi scored that incredible goal against Getafe in the Copa del Rey.  Much has been spoken and written about that goal ever since and how similar it was in the creation to the one Diego Maradona scored against England in the Mexico World Cup in 1986.

It was a very young Messi who had already made his mark the previous two years but this goal took the whole thing to a different international stratosphere and to this day it's a goal that has had many lines written about it or where football debates have been held in the media.

Both goals (Maradona and Messi) have big similitudes with not only the route taken to goal, but also body movement and speed.  The fact both players seem to have taken a similar route in their style of play during their career's is another thing to take into account because the metamorphosis of the two is quite remarkable.

The same side of the pitch, the turn and change of speed directing themselves to goal is so similar that it makes strange viewing.

Maradona: Dribbles past 6 players, 12 touches of the ball, scores in the 55th minute, ran 65 metres, 42 steps and one turn.

Messi: Dribbles 5 players, scores in the 28th minute, 13 touches of the ball, runs 55 metres.

 

Some of the sports newspaper front pages the day after the Lionel Messi goal

 

THE GOALS

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

People tend to forget Messi's was against a second divsion side which finished 13th,  basically like Hazard scoring a mazy dribble against Barnsley.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

Had to check the second line of that post for white text - that's shambolic trolling.

Why? It's a lovely goal, but against substandard opposition. The equivalent now would be exactly what I said, there's no comparison to Maradona's goal in a World Cup Quarter final. Messi has scored many finer goals against decent opposition, this is only notable because of its likeness to another famous goal.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by The Artful Dodger

[SirBalon]

28 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

People tend to forget Messi's was against a second divsion side which finished 13th,  basically like Hazard scoring a mazy dribble against Barnsley.

 

Actually Villarreal were already a first division La Liga side when that goal was scored.

All the same, scoring a goal like that means something special because otherwise it would be happening every season when sides like Real Madrid or Barcelona face lower league clubs i the earlier rounds.  It doesn't happen, it has never happened!

Infact I reckon Messi scored a better goal of that type against a more historical side in the actual final...  That was against Athletic Bilbao 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Villareal?

It was against Getafe who finished 13th in the Spanish second division.

 

Didht they?

Edited April 18, 2017 by The Artful Dodger