Cultural Exchange ....

[bozziovai]

@Stan   @nudge @Eco

 

since we've opened up the topic regarding russia and it's culture, let's just continue it here ....

especially at Eco since you're half russian and that machismo culture of the Ruskies, do they fight each other with only menial issues ??   coz in youtube, i've seen videos russians knocking their teeths off in the streets and the people around them really don't mind, it's as if it's normal for them.

[El Profesor]

Considering his affinity for italian football, I always thought @Eco was italian-american.  

[Eco]

48 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

Considering his affinity for italian football, I always thought @Eco was italian-american.  

Ha, I have zero Italian in me. Grew up a soccer fan, first game was in Europe, at the San Siro while there as a kid with my Dad, he bought tickets, we sat on the 'Blue Side', and have since been an Inter and Italia supporter.

Family on Mother's side is from Yaroslavl, Russia. I used to go about once a year, but as I've gotten older, a family, and tensions have worsen, I have gone less and less. I still know the language, and try to use it with family, but honestly I'm not a fan of the politics or culture nowadays.

Oh, and I have a degree in Russian Literature which is a bit lame given my background.

[Eco]

4 hours ago, bozziovai said:

especially at Eco since you're half russian and that machismo culture of the Ruskies, do they fight each other with only menial issues ??   coz in youtube, i've seen videos russians knocking their teeths off in the streets and the people around them really don't mind, it's as if it's normal for them.

Ha - I'm no expert, as I haven't been back in about 5 years, but I know that the culture of gang is still lurking despite Putin's effort to eradicate it. The idea of the 'macho man', is very strong, and they are quick to be 'a man', which is typically showing your strength in one way or the other. This isn't all physical mind you, as the chess landscape is still extremely testy for similar reasons.

Women have only started to get more footing in culture there, which is another oddity given that Catherine the Great is consider one of the most powerful women in history. Maybe 10 or so years ago Women were just allowed to drive, but were forced to put a designated sticker on their car that translate to, 'Beware of Me', with a high hell on it.

So it's a backwards country in a lot of ways, and still caters to the idea of the macho man.

[El Profesor]

21 minutes ago, Eco said:

Ha, I have zero Italian in me. Grew up a soccer fan, first game was in Europe, at the San Siro while there as a kid with my Dad, he bought tickets, we sat on the 'Blue Side', and have since been an Inter and Italia supporter.

Family on Mother's side is from Yaroslavl, Russia. I used to go about once a year, but as I've gotten older, a family, and tensions have worsen, I have gone less and less. I still know the language, and try to use it with family, but honestly I'm not a fan of the politics or culture nowadays.

Oh, and I have a degree in Russian Literature which is a bit lame given my background.

In my case, I have a lot of italian in me, from my dad´s side, but I hardly follow italian football these days. 

A degree in Russian Literature is really nice actually. That is really cool. Is Gogol considered part of russian literature? "Dead Souls" is one of the funniest books I´ve ever read. 

I have a soft spot for russian culture, mostly because I have always taken an interest in the Eastern Front of the Second World War. Zemfira is one of my favorite artists. I still listen her first album to this day, thanks to @nudge .

[Eco]

1 minute ago, El Profesor said:

In my case, I have a lot of italian in me, from my dad´s side, but I hardly follow italian football these days. 

A degree in Russian Literature is really nice actually. That is really cool. Is Gogol considered part of russian literature? "Dead Souls" is one of the funniest books I´ve ever read. 

I have a soft spot for russian culture, mostly because I have always taken an interest in the Eastern Front of the Second World War. Zemfira is one of my favorite artists. I still listen her first album to this day, thanks to @nudge .

Gogol is considered part of Russian Literature.

Mostly my courses included one on Dostoevsky, another Pushkin, and of course Tolstoy.

Personally, my favorite Russian Novels, in order, are:

1. Master and Margarita
2. The Idiot
3. Oblomov
4. Crime and Punishment
5. Anna Karenina

[nudge]

4 hours ago, Eco said:

Ha - I'm no expert, as I haven't been back in about 5 years, but I know that the culture of gang is still lurking despite Putin's effort to eradicate it. The idea of the 'macho man', is very strong, and they are quick to be 'a man', which is typically showing your strength in one way or the other. This isn't all physical mind you, as the chess landscape is still extremely testy for similar reasons.

Women have only started to get more footing in culture there, which is another oddity given that Catherine the Great is consider one of the most powerful women in history. Maybe 10 or so years ago Women were just allowed to drive, but were forced to put a designated sticker on their car that translate to, 'Beware of Me', with a high hell on it.

So it's a backwards country in a lot of ways, and still caters to the idea of the macho man.

What?  Sorry Lucas, I know you as an intelligent and well educated person, but that's a load of bollocks  It's true that traditional gender stereotypes are very much alive in a rather conservative and patriarchal Russian society with well defined social roles, but this is ridiculous. Women were always allowed to drive in Russia (and Soviet Union before that), and nobody was forcing them to put any designated stickers on their cars. 

[Azeem]

2 hours ago, nudge said:

What?  Sorry Lucas, I know you as an intelligent and well educated person, but that's a load of bollocks  It's true that traditional gender stereotypes are very much alive in a rather conservative and patriarchal Russian society with well defined social roles, but this is ridiculous. Women were always allowed to drive in Russia (and Soviet Union before that), and nobody was forcing them to put any designated stickers on their cars. 

He watches Fox news 

[Eco]

5 hours ago, nudge said:

What?  Sorry Lucas, I know you as an intelligent and well educated person, but that's a load of bollocks  It's true that traditional gender stereotypes are very much alive in a rather conservative and patriarchal Russian society with well defined social roles, but this is ridiculous. Women were always allowed to drive in Russia (and Soviet Union before that), and nobody was forcing them to put any designated stickers on their cars. 

I'll talk to the Mom again. Again, most of these stories are from her growing up during Soviet Times. I know there was a sticker 'deemed appropriate' for women to put on their cars, as I did buy one for a girl because she didn't believe me that they existed. So I'll see if it was more of a local (city) thing, or more widespread, I am 100% certain on the sticker with high hell on it. 

[Eco]

Also, I do vividly remember that the streets, at least in the city my family are from, are incredibly outdated. Pot holes everywhere and torn up. I think a lot of money was put into Yaroslavl when their was a rumor a world cup game would be hosted there (they have a local team, Shinnik, which play in the second division), but then the cities were announced and poor ole Yaroslavl did not make the cut. 

[bozziovai]

9 hours ago, Eco said:

Ha - I'm no expert, as I haven't been back in about 5 years, but I know that the culture of gang is still lurking despite Putin's effort to eradicate it. The idea of the 'macho man', is very strong, and they are quick to be 'a man', which is typically showing your strength in one way or the other. This isn't all physical mind you, as the chess landscape is still extremely testy for similar reasons.

Women have only started to get more footing in culture there, which is another oddity given that Catherine the Great is consider one of the most powerful women in history. Maybe 10 or so years ago Women were just allowed to drive, but were forced to put a designated sticker on their car that translate to, 'Beware of Me', with a high hell on it.

So it's a backwards country in a lot of ways, and still caters to the idea of the macho man.

i see.    in terms of backwards country, nothing comes close to saudi arabia.    yes, i'm workiing here for nearly 9 years now but i still can't say that i have grown to love or even LIKE the country.    the only thing that i LIKE here is their justice system, the death penalty or public execution is such good display of justice served.    anyhow, this is how backward they are, only now in the year 2018 that women will be allowed to drive.   Only in the last 5 years have women been allowed to get a Seat in their Shia Court ( their senate equivalent ).     And only in this country exist a LYING CULTURE.     I understand that people lie all the time, but here it's a whole different level, they lie to you in your facking face and they even use their god.

here's an example of their liar-culture.     part of my work is to refract people's eyes and this shit always happens.     example a person came with his old spectacles with a power of -1.00 Diopter, when i refract him, he can't accept his old power of -1.00 ( he doesn't know the power at all, i don't tell them ).... but he can accept an increase of power with a final prescription of -1.50, i ask the goat ( saudi ) if everything is ok or he is comfortable and the goat answers all of my questions with a resounding YES.   Now, here's comes the stupid part.     When he asks me how much is his new specs-power and he learns that there's an increase, the facker, INSTANTLY, go on do to some acting worthy of an Oscar, he would say, NO, MY HEAD HURTS, NO I CAN'T SEE, .. complaints galore.

and one of the most common is a family coming to me to complain becoz their mother or grandmother or whoever geriatric member of their family still can't see after a cataract operation.    and they would usually go --  WE SWEAR TO GOD THAT IT WAS YOU WHO MADE THE OPERATION.     And then i would casually ask them to give me the medical report ... and i would take out my medical license/i.d.  and let them compare to who's name is written on the report, of course, it's not me coz i know all my patients.    but even if they see a different name, even if the evidence is there, they would still insist that it was me ............

[bozziovai]

19 minutes ago, Eco said:

I'll talk to the Mom again. Again, most of these stories are from her growing up during Soviet Times. I know there was a sticker 'deemed appropriate' for women to put on their cars, as I did buy one for a girl because she didn't believe me that they existed. So I'll see if it was more of a local (city) thing, or more widespread, I am 100% certain on the sticker with high hell on it. 

those might have been tough times for her.    coz i can relate somewhat with my aunt, she was around 14 or 15 during the world war, listening to her stories makes us ( cousins ) cringe with fear and anger and astonishment. 

[nudge]

Just now, Eco said:

I'll talk to the Mom again. Again, most of these stories are from her growing up during Soviet Times. I know there was a sticker 'deemed appropriate' for women to put on their cars, as I did buy one for a girl because she didn't believe me that they existed. So I'll see if it was more of a local (city) thing, or more widespread, I am 100% certain on the sticker with high hell on it. 

I'm not questioning the existence of the sticker, but it's nothing more than a humorous take on the perceived driving ability of women, haha. It's not an official thing by any means, nor was it ever enforced by anyone. 

The situation of women during Soviet times was not oppressive whatsoever, and certainly much better than it is now. In fact, women were encouraged to study and work in all sorts of industries to gain financial independence and were generally better educated than men overall; they had absolutely the same rights as men, occupied positions of high social rank, all while keeping their traditional gender roles and being highly respected as family caregivers and guaranteed maternity benefits at the same time. There obviously were certain issues at home for many, domestic violence and abuse and such is widespread now, especially considering the macho culture, as you said, but let's be fair, that's not exclusive to Russia, is it now...

Granted, Soviet Union/Russia is huge, so regional and urban/rural differences do exist.

Also it feels weird to be defending something I'm not a fan of, but the amount of bullshit about Russia in the Western sphere of influence is staggering  

[Eco]

Yeah, so from my juvenile knowledge of KSA, it's this new prince that is seemingly more liberal and thus opening this up for women and a more progressive ideology? Again, I did some research into the area when I was studying Islam, the Qu'ran, and Arab Nations in general 

My depiction of Russia was probably a bit overly harsh when you compare it to probably some of the things you see. I used to be big into Russian history, but haven't really paid much attention to it over the past 10+ years, and most of the current events information I receive is in regards to my two younger sisters who try to go to Russia every year and are having a harder time getting there and back. 

For instance, when I stayed in Yaroslavl for 6 months back in 2004, it was about 4 months into my stay where I saw a black guy. Of course, being from Atlanta, GA this is nothing weird or out of the ordinary, but at that time, that that city, it was a huge anomaly. I remember my Father trying to help him out since he didn't know the language and people didn't want to walk within 10 ft of the bloke. It absolutely boggled my mind, and has stuck to me this day. 

The sticker thing is/was humorous to me when I was told it, and bought a couple for some friends back home. 

Another interesting story is that I visited an elderly home, and was warned quite sternly to not say, "We (USA) won the war (WWII)'. So, while I thought it was an odd request, I remember going in there, and playing chess with some older men, who brought up WWII, and a buddy I was with, mentioned how proud he is that we (again, the US) won the war. At this moment, an elderly man went into a frenzy talking about how it wasn't fought on OUR soil, WE weren't invaded, and that YOU (USA) didn't do shit until it was convenient. 

I got a whole new respect for him, and Russia's involvement in WWII.

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

those might have been tough times for her.    coz i can relate somewhat with my aunt, she was around 14 or 15 during the world war, listening to her stories makes us ( cousins ) cringe with fear and anger and astonishment. 

It was too bad from the stories. Granted the shortage of food was very real. To this day she is extremely paranoid about wasting food, and my Dad always jokes that it's her going back to the old Soviet Days. 

In the city, my mom was chosen for a photo shoot on how to be a 'well behaved soviet girl', in which there is a black and white posed photo of her washing dishes, another cleaning the floors. She said it was propaganda on how to raise good Soviet Ladies during the Soviet Times. 

[Eco]

4 minutes ago, nudge said:

I'm not questioning the existence of the sticker, but it's nothing more than a humorous take on the perceived driving ability of women, haha. It's not an official thing by any means, nor was it ever enforced by anyone. 

The situation of women during Soviet times was not oppressive whatsoever, and certainly much better than it is now. In fact, women were encouraged to study and work in all sorts of industries to gain financial independence and were generally better educated than men overall; they had absolutely the same rights as men, occupied positions of high social rank, all while keeping their traditional gender roles and being highly respected as family caregivers and guaranteed maternity benefits at the same time. There obviously were certain issues at home for many, domestic violence and abuse and such is widespread now, especially considering the macho culture, as you said, but let's be fair, that's not exclusive to Russia, is it now...

Granted, Soviet Union/Russia is huge, so regional and urban/rural differences do exist.

Also it feels weird to be defending something I'm not a fan of, but the amount of bullshit about Russia in the Western sphere of influence is staggering  

No doubt, and usually I try to stick up for Russia as most people here in States are completely ignorant. 

My mother though is a fan of stories, so as a male, I know extremely little about Women's Rights there, and just gone off of memories of stories that I was once told. 

Mom and I have very little in common outside of our love of tea and books. I love soccer and chess and she despises both. 

[nudge]

5 minutes ago, Eco said:

It was too bad from the stories. Granted the shortage of food was very real. To this day she is extremely paranoid about wasting food, and my Dad always jokes that it's her going back to the old Soviet Days. 

In the city, my mom was chosen for a photo shoot on how to be a 'well behaved soviet girl', in which there is a black and white posed photo of her washing dishes, another cleaning the floors. She said it was propaganda on how to raise good Soviet Ladies during the Soviet Times. 

Ha, I can relate to that. Shortages were real even in the 80s, mostly as a direct result of the destruction of the planning system. We used to queue for stuff like better quality meat, sausage, fruits, even bread sometimes etc. as stocks were limited. One of the reasons why a lot of older people in ex Soviet countries still hoard basic food items today, despite the abundance. 

[bozziovai]

8 minutes ago, Eco said:

Yeah, so from my juvenile knowledge of KSA, it's this new prince that is seemingly more liberal and thus opening this up for women and a more progressive ideology? Again, I did some research into the area when I was studying Islam, the Qu'ran, and Arab Nations in general 

 

no.   he is not progressive at all.    for outsiders, it's understandable that it's what you perceive, but that's just a facade.   the real reason for all this so called "change" in KSA is becoz of the super low prices in oil.   oil is their ONLY source of income, gold and minerals is but a small percentage, they own manufacture anything, they don't export anything but oil.    the prices plummeted way back 2008/2009 i think and then it sunk as deep as the mariana's trench in 2014 and came the War In Yemen.    No revenues from Oil.  Spending for the War.   Plus the us expats sending billions of dollars annually out of saudi.   This has rattled their government and thus tried to kiss-ass on the other countries, trying to make business deals with them and here they are now trying to present Saudi as a place suitable to do business.

[Eco]

5 minutes ago, nudge said:

Ha, I can relate to that. Shortages were real even in the 80s, mostly as a direct result of the destruction of the planning system. We used to queue for stuff like better quality meat, sausage, fruits, even bread sometimes etc. as stocks were limited. One of the reasons why a lot of older people in ex Soviet countries still hoard basic food items today, despite the abundance. 

Yep - This is my mom's house 

[Eco]

Just now, bozziovai said:

no.   he is not progressive at all.    for outsiders, it's understandable that it's what you perceive, but that's just a facade.   the real reason for all this so called "change" in KSA is becoz of the super low prices in oil.   oil is their ONLY source of income, gold and minerals is but a small percentage, they own manufacture anything, they don't export anything but oil.    the prices plummeted way back 2008/2009 i think and then it sunk as deep as the mariana's trench in 2014 and came the War In Yemen.    No revenues from Oil.  Spending for the War.   Plus the us expats sending billions of dollars annually out of saudi.   This has rattled their government and thus tried to kiss-ass on the other countries, trying to make business deals with them and here they are now trying to present Saudi as a place suitable to do business.

Fair enough, like I said, I know very little about KSA's politics, but I find myself fascinated by some of the news I hear from there. 

[bozziovai]

6 minutes ago, nudge said:

Ha, I can relate to that. Shortages were real even in the 80s, mostly as a direct result of the destruction of the planning system. We used to queue for stuff like better quality meat, sausage, fruits, even bread sometimes etc. as stocks were limited. One of the reasons why a lot of older people in ex Soviet countries still hoard basic food items today, despite the abundance. 

i've read about how harsh life was after the collapse of USSR, but to hear them from people who actually experienced it is inspiring to some degree.

[Eco]

Just now, bozziovai said:

i've read about how harsh life was after the collapse of USSR, but to hear them from people who actually experienced it is inspiring to some degree.

It's like the old adage spoken so often, 'They don't make them like they used to'. 

[bozziovai]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Fair enough, like I said, I know very little about KSA's politics, but I find myself fascinated by some of the news I hear from there. 

like what for example ....    coz i have a lot of crazy-crazies to share hehe......

[Eco]

Just now, bozziovai said:

like what for example ....    coz i have a lot of crazy-crazies to share hehe......

Nothing specific, but with my interest in islam and the Qu'ran, I am always searching for decent and reliable news from the Arab Nations

[nudge]

5 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

i've read about how harsh life was after the collapse of USSR, but to hear them from people who actually experienced it is inspiring to some degree.

90s were a bit like the old Wild West, haha  Fun times.