Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 I don't like this i think its disrespectful to other clubs.
ScoRoss Posted August 4, 2018 Author Posted August 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Devon Von Devon said: I don't like this i think its disrespectful to other clubs. If the other clubs weren't so badly run, they wouldn't have this chance.
Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, ScoRoss said: If the other clubs weren't so badly run, they wouldn't have this chance. Badly run ? care to explain as i dont know much about this. I can understand this in the third or lower division but in the second division like in Spain. Surely if all the smaller clubs join together to resist this they won't be able to because of the influence of Real Barca and Juve etc in their respective countries.
Smiley Culture Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 Likely to be a more stable run club than some of the clubs at that level.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Devon Von Devon said: I don't like this i think its disrespectful to other clubs. What's wrong with it? They compete like everyone else and get relegated like everyone else! The only thing that's different is that the 'B' Team can never be promoted to the country's top division which benefits the independent clubs. Nothing wrong with this at all in my opinion and it also gives youth a proper chance rather than pointless uncompetitive reserve leagues.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 @Dr. Gonzo you're really into Italian football... What do you think?
Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, SirBalon said: What's wrong with it? They compete like everyone else and get relegated like everyone else! The only thing that's different is that the 'B' Team can never be promoted to the country's top division which benefits the independent clubs. Nothing wrong with this at all in my opinion and it also gives youth a proper chance rather than pointless uncompetitive reserve leagues. I would have no problem if all teams get to have a 'B' team playing not just the top three four clubs.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Devon Von Devon said: I would have no problem if all teams get to have a 'B' team playing not just the top three four clubs. All teams do have the possibility of having 'B' teams. Even Sporting Gijón have one which plays in regional divisions. Obviously with more money and a more lucrative academy you can achieve more.
Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 Just now, SirBalon said: All teams do have the possibility of having 'B' teams. Even Sporting Gijón have one which plays in regional divisions. Obviously with more money and a more lucrative academy you can achieve more. Thats my issue, surely there must be a limit on allowing the no of B teams in lower divisions those spots should only be given on youth level perfomances.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Devon Von Devon said: Thats my issue, surely there must be a limit on allowing the no of B teams in lower divisions those spots should only be given on youth level perfomances. It all equals itself out mate and the amount of federative clubs in Spain are untold to be honest. Everyone started at the bottom and worked their way up. No club was ever handed a higher division slot when their club created the a 'B' team (in Spain). I have no idea how they worked the system out in Italy and how Juve 'B' were offered a Serie 'C' slot. I know they also have the lower divisions categorised in regional terms like in Spain so as to save on travelling costs but on this particular decision I can't comment as I haven't looked into it enough.
Burning Gold Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 I hate the idea of B teams. It takes up a spot in the league for genuine clubs and, like @Devon Von Devon said, it's disrespectful to other clubs. Hi, Pro Vercelli, seven times Champions of Italy, today you'll be playing Juventus' reserves. Fuck off. Same goes for 'spin off' clubs like FC United or AFC Liverpool while we're at it.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: I hate the idea of B teams. It takes up a spot in the league for genuine clubs and, like @Devon Von Devon said, it's disrespectful to other clubs. Hi, Pro Vercelli, seven times Champions of Italy, today you'll be playing Juventus' reserves. Fuck off. Same goes for 'spin off' clubs like FC United or AFC Liverpool while we're at it. What's in a name? It's just football to be played and attempt to win! Why does it matter who you're playing when it's just competition. Under what ethical standpoint is this disrespectful when Pro Vercelli have the opportunity to be promoted to Serie 'A' and Juve 'B' don't.
Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, SirBalon said: What's in a name? It's just football to be played and attempt to win! Why does it matter who you're playing when it's just competition. Under what ethical standpoint is this disrespectful when Pro Vercelli have the opportunity to be promoted to Serie 'A' and Juve 'B' don't. Do points gained and lost against B teams count ?
Burning Gold Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 minute ago, SirBalon said: What's in a name? It's just football to be played and attempt to win! Why does it matter who you're playing when it's just competition. Under what this is it disrespectful when Pro Vercelli have the opportunity to be promoted to Serie 'A' and Juve 'B' don't. It's not about trying to win though mate; that's not the point of the B teams. The purpose is to develop players, and while the two may sometimes go hand in hand, the ultimate aim of Juventus B is not to win matches or trophies. That's fine, and developing young players is important, but those teams shouldn't be mixed with real clubs who are trying to win.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said: Do points gained and lost against B teams count ? I have no idea what you mean mate. It's the league! You win and you get 3 points, you draw and you get 1 point and if you lose you get nothing. People can only judge a system if they have experience with it and have watched it functioning. If anyone wants to have a look at the multitude of 'B' team in Spain and go through the results and how their campaigns have historically ended they'll see that they aren't even benefitted in the few cases where those 'B' teams are even owned by the giants of Spanish football. They don't tend to do well at all and the only thing one can take out of it is the experience the younger players get aging against professionals vying for glory. Like I said, it all equals itself out and is Infact beneficial for the national game. What happens as in life in general is that people get possessive over the insignificant things in life because they're scared of change and being taken into something that gives off the sensation of not being a comfort zone.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Burning Gold said: It's not about trying to win though mate; that's not the point of the B teams. The purpose is to develop players, and while the two may sometimes go hand in hand, the ultimate aim of Juventus B is not to win matches or trophies. That's fine, and developing young players is important, but those teams shouldn't be mixed with real clubs who are trying to win. But it equals itself out because there's competition there and both sides (including the 'B' team) are trying to win. It's the same as if a new club is formed and manages to enter the professional divisions.
Azeem Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I have no idea what you mean mate. It's the league! You win and you get 3 points, you draw and you get 1 point and if you lose you get nothing. . I thought it was similar to what France did in Euro2016 qualifying. France were placed in the group with 5 teams. All teams played matches(friendlies) with France on dates they would have played the 6th team but no points were added to the total in the qualifying table of the five teams on their results from the games with France.
ScoRoss Posted August 4, 2018 Author Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Devon Von Devon said: Badly run ? care to explain as i dont know much about this. I can understand this in the third or lower division but in the second division like in Spain. Surely if all the smaller clubs join together to resist this they won't be able to because of the influence of Real Barca and Juve etc in their respective countries. They only got the spot because of teams going bust. And the 'replacement' were deemed liable to go the same way.
Burning Gold Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, SirBalon said: But it equals itself out because there's competition there and both sides (including the 'B' team) are trying to win. It's the same as if a new club is formed and manages to enter the professional divisions. It's not the same at all. A new club would have its own fans, a local area it represents, and an ambition (okay, maybe a dream to start with) to reach the top flight. Juventus B have none of that and shouldn't be mixed with real clubs that do.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 38 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: It's not the same at all. A new club would have its own fans, a local area it represents, and an ambition (okay, maybe a dream to start with) to reach the top flight. Juventus B have none of that and shouldn't be mixed with real clubs that do. Juventus 'B' do have real fans, they have Juventus fans. Look at that abomination in Milton Keynes called something that isn't even part of the local identity. Still, I would expect they have their fans.
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 hour ago, ScoRoss said: They only got the spot because of teams going bust. And the 'replacement' were deemed liable to go the same way. I hadn't read into the reasons and was unaware of why this had occurred but it makes sense to me. Still... Something's got to be done about the underlying issue surrounding Italian football at base level.
Burning Gold Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Juventus 'B' do have real fans, they have Juventus fans. Look at that abomination in Milton Keynes called something that isn't even part of the local identity. Still, I would expect they have their fans. Oh behave
SirBalon Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Burning Gold said: Oh behave I’ll give you that one!
Dr. Gonzo Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 5 hours ago, SirBalon said: @Dr. Gonzo you're really into Italian football... What do you think? I don’t really like B teams in professional football football leagues tbh. Pretty British mentality there. Its obviously going to be good for Juve’s player development. Although Italian clubs now look like they’ve found a way around the ban on co-ownership with loans with an obligation to buy and clauses where the clubs who would have been co-owners will submit bids at an agreed time, the amounts won’t be blind like they were in co-ownership - so the traditional Italian development model has found a way to live on. But that hasn’t really worked for Italy lately. So I’m not surprised Juve’s doing this. They’ve always been the most forward thinking Italian club, even though they massive cheating cunts.
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