Smiley Culture Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 One win in fifteen. Maybe the grass isn’t greener, Ipswich fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I have no doubt the Ipswich fans will turn this on Marcus Evans now and ignore the fact they forced out the one man holding them together as a Championship club that was never in fear of relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Never quite understood the issue with McCarthy in all honesty. I get that most Football fans want to see “better football” but surely “successful football” is more important? I made this point on another thread that ultimately, if your team is successful, an objective term admittedly but ultimately meaning , then surely that is all that matters? “Good Football” is a myth. Football fans bang on about “good football” and attribute the lack of good football for the need to change manager but that’s result based rather than based upon how well people believe the quality of Football is. If your team is winning fairly consistently, that’s what matters, not whether the goal in your 1-0 win at the weekend was after a flowing twenty-four pass move that included every player in your team. Stoke spent years in the Premier League playing a style of Football that wasn’t as aesthetically pleasing as Football offered up to Chelsea or Arsenal fans but realistically, could Stoke ever have been able to offer a style like that with their resources? No, definitely not. It wasn’t like Ipswich were known for their way of playing Football prior to McCarthy’s appointment and given the playing staff and resources on offer to McCarthy, it wasn’t as if they could afford to be bringing in top end Championship players, given the fees they’ve started to be sold for over the past five or so years. Maybe McCarthy’s and Ipswich’s short-term success, where he led them to the play-off’s was ultimately his downfall. Perhaps that was an overachievement and the fans expectations were unrealistically heightened as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 25, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 25, 2018 2nd sacking of the season in this league, after Bruce went a couple of weeks ago. Not bad going for this league. Proper case of 'careful what you wish for' here, for Ipswich fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said: Never quite understood the issue with McCarthy in all honesty. I get that most Football fans want to see “better football” but surely “successful football” is more important? I made this point on another thread that ultimately, if your team is successful, an objective term admittedly but ultimately meaning , then surely that is all that matters? “Good Football” is a myth. Football fans bang on about “good football” and attribute the lack of good football for the need to change manager but that’s result based rather than based upon how well people believe the quality of Football is. If your team is winning fairly consistently, that’s what matters, not whether the goal in your 1-0 win at the weekend was after a flowing twenty-four pass move that included every player in your team. Stoke spent years in the Premier League playing a style of Football that wasn’t as aesthetically pleasing as Football offered up to Chelsea or Arsenal fans but realistically, could Stoke ever have been able to offer a style like that with their resources? No, definitely not. It wasn’t like Ipswich were known for their way of playing Football prior to McCarthy’s appointment and given the playing staff and resources on offer to McCarthy, it wasn’t as if they could afford to be bringing in top end Championship players, given the fees they’ve started to be sold for over the past five or so years. Maybe McCarthy’s and Ipswich’s short-term success, where he led them to the play-off’s was ultimately his downfall. Perhaps that was an overachievement and the fans expectations were unrealistically heightened as a result. I pretty much agree with all of this. I could understand why Ipswich wanted to see a better brand of football, then after 46 games i noticed they finished in the top half. With the absolutely poisonous atmosphere created by the fans to force Mick out that's an absolutely mental achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 He was doing well so I don't get the hatred for him, but fans have every right to expect some direction and decent football to be played at their club. Are a couple of top half finishes enough justification to watch hoofball shite every other weekend? They've got the replacement wrong but if the club had a structure about them then someone would be able to replicate McCarthy's results with decent football, there's a weird assumption in this country that technical/passing football is expensive when in reality there are enough footballers out there to play like that that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted October 26, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted October 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: Never quite understood the issue with McCarthy in all honesty. I get that most Football fans want to see “better football” but surely “successful football” is more important? I made this point on another thread that ultimately, if your team is successful, an objective term admittedly but ultimately meaning , then surely that is all that matters? “Good Football” is a myth. Football fans bang on about “good football” and attribute the lack of good football for the need to change manager but that’s result based rather than based upon how well people believe the quality of Football is. If your team is winning fairly consistently, that’s what matters, not whether the goal in your 1-0 win at the weekend was after a flowing twenty-four pass move that included every player in your team. Stoke spent years in the Premier League playing a style of Football that wasn’t as aesthetically pleasing as Football offered up to Chelsea or Arsenal fans but realistically, could Stoke ever have been able to offer a style like that with their resources? No, definitely not. It wasn’t like Ipswich were known for their way of playing Football prior to McCarthy’s appointment and given the playing staff and resources on offer to McCarthy, it wasn’t as if they could afford to be bringing in top end Championship players, given the fees they’ve started to be sold for over the past five or so years. Maybe McCarthy’s and Ipswich’s short-term success, where he led them to the play-off’s was ultimately his downfall. Perhaps that was an overachievement and the fans expectations were unrealistically heightened as a result. This is my biggest worry about us. That we've done a bit of a Stoke and abandoned a formula that worked for the sake of fitting in with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I'm more concerned about the rumoured replacement. Lambert, with all that he has achieved with the Canaries, isnt going to be a people's favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I don't understand how people don't seem to grasp why Ipswich fans wanted something new. Just because it has ended up disastrously doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. You know how long they've been in the Championship right? There has been no progression at all. Managers have come and gone and a few playoff appearances here and there but largely they've been a mid table Championship club for coming up to two decades. Considering they are a big club - that's been successful in the past, and has played a fair bit of top flight football in their history - it must be very frustrating. They've lost a generation of fans in the area to the bigger Premier League sides. Marcus Evans has to take a lot of the blame for a lack of investment. They've been too reliant on loans and free transfers - whilst the facilities haven't been improved at all. However, on the Mick point - I completely sympathise. They weren't going anywhere. They weren't enjoying going to watch their football team. He was inevitably good at doing what he's good at, but it comes a point when you've stood still for so long that you need to look for something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Storts said: I don't understand how people don't seem to grasp why Ipswich fans wanted something new. Just because it has ended up disastrously doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. You know how long they've been in the Championship right? There has been no progression at all. Managers have come and gone and a few playoff appearances here and there but largely they've been a mid table Championship club for coming up to two decades. Considering they are a big club - that's been successful in the past, and has played a fair bit of top flight football in their history - it must be very frustrating. They've lost a generation of fans in the area to the bigger Premier League sides. Marcus Evans has to take a lot of the blame for a lack of investment. They've been too reliant on loans and free transfers - whilst the facilities haven't been improved at all. However, on the Mick point - I completely sympathise. They weren't going anywhere. They weren't enjoying going to watch their football team. He was inevitably good at doing what he's good at, but it comes a point when you've stood still for so long that you need to look for something different. Your second from last paragraph contradicts everything else. Evans does have to take some responsibility but if you’re only willing to aim so high and invest so much, you’re not going to progress and if you’re not progressing, recruitment and retention becomes more difficult, which further stifles a club. Blaming McCarthy for a lack of progression is an odd one for the above reasons. Blaming McCarthy for a lack of progression whilst ultimately doing all he could do given the resources on offer, is wrong for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Your second from last paragraph contradicts everything else. Evans does have to take some responsibility but if you’re only willing to aim so high and invest so much, you’re not going to progress and if you’re not progressing, recruitment and retention becomes more difficult, which further stifles a club. Blaming McCarthy for a lack of progression is an odd one for the above reasons. Blaming McCarthy for a lack of progression whilst ultimately doing all he could do given the resources on offer, is wrong for me. It doesn't contradict. It adds mitigating circumstances, but I still believe that Ipswich fans were right to want change. They went through a series of managers, none of whom game them what they wanted - Mick included. It got to the point that they knew what they were getting each year, and couldn't even enjoy the football they were seeing. What was the point of watching awful football for the same end result. They want young fresh ideas, someone that could work with the constraints on the squad and actually play a better style of football. Ultimately these people pay their money to be entertained - that was not happening. McCarthy had taken the club as far as he could, nothing was changing. Why not gamble on something better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Storts said: You know how long they've been in the Championship right? There has been no progression at all. Managers have come and gone and a few playoff appearances here and there but largely they've been a mid table Championship club for coming up to two decades. Considering they are a big club - that's been successful in the past, and has played a fair bit of top flight football in their history - it must be very frustrating. They've lost a generation of fans in the area to the bigger Premier League sides. Big club, my arse. And thats a massive achievement that they didnt get relegated. Hope it changes this time, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, AMG said: Big club, my arse. And thats a massive achievement that they didnt get relegated. Hope it changes this time, though. Biggest club in East Anglia and it's not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, Storts said: Biggest club in East Anglia and it's not even close And on what numbers do you base this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, AMG said: And on what numbers do you base this? 'Numbers' I'm talking historically - they've been by the far the most successful club in the region. They've won a league title, an FA Cup and a European Trophy. They've been managed by legends like Bobby Robson and Sir Alf Ramsey. Ipswich have made an impact on English football and it's why the past two decades have been tough - particularly when they've seen their rivals have bigger successes, going up and down to the Premier League and consistently beating them. Don't talk bollocks when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Norwich may get bigger attendances now (and so they should with that catchment area), and are currently the better side, but historically Ipswich are bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Storts said: 'Numbers' I'm talking historically Oh perfect. They're the bigger club. If you live 50 years in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 26, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, AMG said: Oh perfect. They're the bigger club. If you live 50 years in the past. Ipswich win the history, hands down. But even so, what have Norwich ever done, even recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Stan said: Ipswich win the history, hands down. But even so, what have Norwich ever done, even recently? They fill their stadium. This is generally the argument he is going for. Norwich are also a similar sized club, and I think fanbase is very even although hard to get a real gauge on Ipswich now cause they largely all stay away and as I said earlier they've almost certainly lost a generation of support thanks to this time in the Champ. Both clubs have excellent catchment areas though, although Norwich don't have the same problem with Spurs/West Ham being easily accessible that Ipswich do. With that in mind - it goes back to the earlier argument, and Ipswich have almost certainly contributed more to English football than Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, Stan said: Ipswich win the history, hands down. But even so, what have Norwich ever done, even recently? Played in the premier league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 26, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, AMG said: Played in the premier league? so have clubs like Wigan and Blackpool. Does that make them bigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stan said: so have clubs like Wigan and Blackpool. Does that make them bigger? Bigger than what? Quote One of Wigan Athletic's longest and recently forgotten rivalries was with nearby Lancashire based club Chorley, although the two clubs have not played a league game since 1971 when they were in the Northern Premier League. Since Wigan Athletic's admission to the Football League in 1978, the club has built up several rivalries, mainly with Bolton Wanderers, the club's primary derby match since reaching the Premier League in 2005. Bigger than Chorley. Definitely. Bigger than bolton? Debatable Quote The West Lancashire derby (sometimes also known as the M55 derby) is a local rivalry in English football between Lancashire clubs Blackpool and Preston North End. Are Blackpool bigger than PNE? Yes, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 26, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, AMG said: Bigger than what? We're debating which club is bigger - Ipswich or Norwich, no? Your argument is just because you've played in the Premier League recently, it makes you bigger than Ipswich. I disagree, hence my point of bringing up clubs like Wigan and Blackpool - they've played in the Premier League in the last 8 years but that doesn't necessarily mean they are a bigger club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Played in the Prem, such a small time argument The amount of times I've heard someone gloat about having a season in the Prem and then getting relegated as if it's an achievement is ridiculous, being a yoyo club is not a big achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 18 hours ago, Storts said: I don't understand how people don't seem to grasp why Ipswich fans wanted something new. Just because it has ended up disastrously doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. They all wanted Paul Hurst as manager sooo...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 27, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 27, 2018 Paul Lambert has been hired as Hurst's replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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