The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[OrangeKhrush]

48 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Sure. It's just them wanting to kill Jews even though Jews, Muslims, and Christians all lived within the region before Israel. It can't be because of Israel's violent treatment of Palestinians.

This idea that reality should be ignored and Israel's stories need to be bough into is just embarrassing and it isn't something that anyone buys into unless they're an insanely naive person. Or something that knows Nazi Israel are a bunch of psychos but are saying what they need to say to cover for Israel.

If you are going to conveniently leave out facts to skew the narrative it will lead you to these kinds of rationales which are entrenched in anti-semite rhetoric. 

1870-1920 saw the Pogroms drive all Jews from Arab lands,  in 1870 Jews in non-israel totalled 800 000,  by 1920 that number dropped below 1000,  jews were systematically removed from arab society by execution or exile,  following the fall of the Ottoman empire,  the power struggle for the disputed region saw pro arab militias constantly attacking Jewish settlements culminating in the 1929 Hebron massacre,  Hebron is the second most sacred site in Judiasm,  and Jews were driven out the land by the Arabs.    

amin al husseini the grand mufti of Jerusalem banned Jews from preying in the holy city,  when he of course wasn't in Germany with Adolf Hitler and Himmler making plans for the elimination of all Jews,  when he returned from Germany by late 1930's he lead the great arab revolt against Jews. 

 

1948,  israel agrees to the UN partition accepting the two most valueless regions,  the southern region is just the Negav desert,  the north was just a salt water malaria infested swamp,   Palastine and the Arab league refused,  Israel then declared itself a sovereign state and the Arabs attacked.   Following the war the Nakbha,  where arabs were not forced to leave,  they just refused to live in a Jewish state,  Egypt controlled the Gaza and Jordan the West Bank.   1967 and Yom Kippur wars saw Israel annex the West Bank and Gaza as conditions of a ceasefire.  1977 the rise of Hamas and islamic jihad saw 20 odd years of low key but deadly attacks on israeli populations.   2004 the Gaza pull out,  Israel forcefully removed all Jewish persons from their historical homes in the Gaza and ceded it to Fatah as a condition of prolonged peace.   2006 Hamas cease power, kill off Fatah and piss all over peace.   Since then its been Hamas attack,  Israel defends and where needed reciprocates. 

there is no apartheid,  there is no Nazi Israel,  there is no genocide. 

 

 

 

[OrangeKhrush]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I usually just use AP to find new news, then google around for different sources to see what the more biased takes are 

Ground news is easier,  it separates media sources based on political leanings,  it also discerns between confirmed or inaccurate news,  you don't need a sub,  I just got the sub for the added features. 

[OrangeKhrush]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don’t watch any TV news. Reading the news is better for you. It’s got the same biases but they’re easier to pick out. TV news is just naked propaganda designed to be most effective because the psychology of TV viewers has been well studied & effective propaganda techniques have existed for centuries. I can also read relatively quickly so I can probably read from 4 sources and get 4 different perspectives, which is sort of useful.

MSNBC is the same as Sky by the way. Knowledge is power.

I’m not undermining anything about Iran. Iran funds Hamas. They don’t give a fuck about Palestinians as being anything other than a useful pawn in their war against Israel and the US. Honestly, supporting Hamas is just tacit support of the Islamic Republic’s reign of terror. So you’ll find I’m being consistent in my views.

I think as a result, I’ve got a better understanding about what Hamas is really all about than most. But they knew the response they would elicit from Israel. They were counting on it.

Meanwhile I have criticised the way Israel’s fought this war. They’re fighting like cowards in the least effective way to take out a terror group that has put civilians in the firing line.

Iran is a bit of  a funny one,  the People of Iran are against a Islamic Theocracy,  the only problem is the authority take that personally and kill anyone who disagree.    

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Iran is a bit of  a funny one,  the People of Iran are against a Islamic Theocracy,  the only problem is the authority take that personally and kill anyone who disagree.    

Yeah. It's twice now too people have tried to equate the suffering of Palestinians with the suffering of the people of Iran in this thread as well. And I think that's pretty ironic considering the point of view of many Iranians, all over the world, but especially those in Iran. So many Iranians, especially in Iran, view Palestinians as one of their oppressors. They pay their taxes and they see a government completely neglect their needs and spend a huge amount of money on backing groups like Hamas, as well as spending money to improve the lives of Palestinians rather than focusing on their own citizens.

That resentment grew a lot last year when loads of Palestinians and Lebanese in the west expressed support for the Iranian government against the citizens demanding basic human rights. And nowadays, when you see an Iranian that comes out as super pro-Palestinian, it's usually someone that is very much pro-IR and against the people of Iran. Like the guy who commit the terror attack in France recently.

I do my best to not harbour the same sort of resentment to all Palestinians. I know that most Palestinians are born into oppression that comes at them from basically every angle, external and internal. They're fed loads of propaganda from a young age and especially for those within places like Gaza. They're not allowed to have dissenting political opinions. Like Iranians, they face constant oppression from the same group of people that claim to be their protectors. They're basically groomed from a young age to either fight until they are martyred or to become unwilling cannon fodder for the sake of Palestinian propaganda.

But Hamas, like the IR & Israel, are oppressing the people of Gaza. To quote the wise @Spike: "Just because the person holding the chains is the same colour as the slave, doesn't make it more ethical." And saying that doesn't excuse or justify Israel's own war crimes and human rights violations.

36 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

the Nakbha,  where arabs were not forced to leave,

That is categorically untrue. The Nakba was a violent and forced removal of Palestinian Arabs from their homes. The history of this conflict is tinged with loads of human rights abuses. Hamas's crimes decades later don't suddenly absolve Israel's crimes.

For there to be meaningful and lasting peace, Israelis and Palestinians need to recognise and reconcile that the horrific mistakes of their current and past leadership that have led the conflict to this point. Wiping out Hamas and leaving a group of shellshocked civilians behind left to their own devices in the aftermath is not going to do much in the way of fighting the extremism that keeps the cycle of violence going.

I think people on both sides of pro-Palestine/pro-Israel have done a lot to sort of whitewash and rewrite their histories. It's not helpful to anyone who wants to see Israelis and Palestinians living normal lives where they don't have to worry about getting killed.

[OrangeKhrush]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah. It's twice now too people have tried to equate the suffering of Palestinians with the suffering of the people of Iran in this thread as well. And I think that's pretty ironic considering the point of view of many Iranians, all over the world, but especially those in Iran. So many Iranians, especially in Iran, view Palestinians as one of their oppressors. They pay their taxes and they see a government completely neglect their needs and spend a huge amount of money on backing groups like Hamas, as well as spending money to improve the lives of Palestinians rather than focusing on their own citizens.

That resentment grew a lot last year when loads of Palestinians and Lebanese in the west expressed support for the Iranian government against the citizens demanding basic human rights. And nowadays, when you see an Iranian that comes out as super pro-Palestinian, it's usually someone that is very much pro-IR and against the people of Iran. Like the guy who commit the terror attack in France recently.

I do my best to not harbour the same sort of resentment to all Palestinians. I know that most Palestinians are born into oppression that comes at them from basically every angle, external and internal. They're fed loads of propaganda from a young age and especially for those within places like Gaza. They're not allowed to have dissenting political opinions. Like Iranians, they face constant oppression from the same group of people that claim to be their protectors. They're basically groomed from a young age to either fight until they are martyred or to become unwilling cannon fodder for the sake of Palestinian propaganda.

But Hamas, like the IR & Israel, are oppressing the people of Gaza. To quote the wise @Spike: "Just because the person holding the chains is the same colour as the slave, doesn't make it more ethical." And saying that doesn't excuse or justify Israel's own war crimes and human rights violations.

That is categorically untrue. The Nakba was a violent and forced removal of Palestinian Arabs from their homes. The history of this conflict is tinged with loads of human rights abuses. Hamas's crimes decades later don't suddenly absolve Israel's crimes.

For there to be meaningful and lasting peace, Israelis and Palestinians need to recognise and reconcile that the horrific mistakes of their current and past leadership that have led the conflict to this point. Wiping out Hamas and leaving a group of shellshocked civilians behind left to their own devices in the aftermath is not going to do much in the way of fighting the extremism that keeps the cycle of violence going.

I think people on both sides of pro-Palestine/pro-Israel have done a lot to sort of whitewash and rewrite their histories. It's not helpful to anyone who wants to see Israelis and Palestinians living normal lives where they don't have to worry about getting killed.

the only solution will be the US to stand in as a transitional government,  up until they can hold free and fair elections and get a functional government and army to defend themselves against radical islamic groups trying a coup.   

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

the only solution will be the US to stand in as a transitional government,  up until they can hold free and fair elections and get a functional government and army to defend themselves against radical islamic groups trying a coup.   

I think it would have to be some sort of multinational coalition of peacekeepers setting up a transitional government. Some Arab countries would need to be involved, I think. Probably Jordan, Egypt (due to proximity & history) and Oman (due to their long time role as being mediators for conflicts between Arabs and/or Middle Eastern nations). Realistically, though, I imagine the Saudis would want to be involved. Then pair them with the US, UK, and Germany as the western peacekeepers & mediators.

Rightly or wrongly, the US and Israel are often seen as one in the same, with regard to this conflict. The US isn't going to be seen as an unbiased and objective protector of Palestinian interests - so this transitional government will not be seen as legitimate. Also, I'm not sure the US has the best track record of nation building - the occupation of Afghanistan led to a government that on paper could stand up on it's own two feet, but in reality was just a government and military on paper and the US funding they received was largely stolen by corrupt officials.

I don't think you get a transitional government set up that's seen as legitimate without it being a multinational coalition backing it. Otherwise those cries of "colonialism" and "we are anti-imperialists" (which I think are ridiculous, given the history of the Arab conquests - what was that if not colonialism and imperialism?) will never die down and extremists will cling to keeping the conflict alive forever.

[OrangeKhrush]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it would have to be some sort of multinational coalition of peacekeepers setting up a transitional government. Some Arab countries would need to be involved, I think. Probably Jordan, Egypt (due to proximity & history) and Oman (due to their long time role as being mediators for conflicts between Arabs and/or Middle Eastern nations). Realistically, though, I imagine the Saudis would want to be involved. Then pair them with the US, UK, and Germany as the western peacekeepers & mediators.

Rightly or wrongly, the US and Israel are often seen as one in the same, with regard to this conflict. The US isn't going to be seen as an unbiased and objective protector of Palestinian interests - so this transitional government will not be seen as legitimate. Also, I'm not sure the US has the best track record of nation building - the occupation of Afghanistan led to a government that on paper could stand up on it's own two feet, but in reality was just a government and military on paper and the US funding they received was largely stolen by corrupt officials.

I don't think you get a transitional government set up that's seen as legitimate without it being a multinational coalition backing it. Otherwise those cries of "colonialism" and "we are anti-imperialists" (which I think are ridiculous, given the history of the Arab conquests - what was that if not colonialism and imperialism?) will never die down and extremists will cling to keeping the conflict alive forever.

I think Saudi Arabia is the best option as it is the most substantial agreement to a peaceful transition in the middle east.  Saudi Arabia denounce the Muslim brotherhood and all jihad groups and they have no desire to be an islamic theocracy.   They have said they want to have arms deals with the US to help protect their growing desire to become a global economic power,  it is a bit of a free hit for the west to have Saudi Arabia allied to them, and a lot of allied middle eastern states to Israel.    

There is also the new west pipeline which bipasses Iran that makes the Gulf states a necessary ally. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Saudi Arabia denounce the Muslim brotherhood and all jihad groups and they have no desire to be an islamic theocracy.

They back ISIS, Al Qaeda, have ties with the Taliban, and are the largest spreaders of the Wahhabi ideology in the world. They're doing well to reduce the powers of political Islam in Saudi Arabia, but that's simply because it's a threat to their own monarchy. They aren't exactly people I would trust though to not foment more extremism outside of Saudi Arabia. They might be good for Newcastle United FC, but the amount of faith I have for them to produce any sort of meaningful peace in the Middle East is an absolute 0.

Imo the worst options in some sort of multinational coalition to set up a transitional government for Palestinians would be the 3 most troublesome nations in the Middle East.

• Saudi Arabia - have a history of fomenting extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, see above
• Iran - have a history of fomenting extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, notably in this conflict: Hezbollah (which they basically completely control at all levels) and Hamas
• Qatar - have a history of fomenting awful extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, notably in this conflict: Hamas, who's leadership they house and protect

There's a reason MBS and his government have been very careful and deliberate regarding their statements on Israel. While he wants better relations with them and close ties to the West - his people largely fucking hate Israel and side strongly with Hamas. Being openly involved in trying to end this conflict with peace between both people will not sit well with many Saudi Arabs. For a man who's done a lot to ensure his people don't openly rebel against him... I'm not sure he wants to risk pissing off that many Arabs all at once.

With Jordan and Egypt, there's the same balancing act of what their government wants vs. what their people want - but they do have the vested interest of not having open and continuous conflict on their borders. They've got more skin in the game to actually create a lasting peace. Whereas MBS is pretty far removed from the suffering of Palestinians and Israelis and to an extent benefits greatly by continually using the plight of Palestinians as a prop to demonstrate how Saudi Arabia stands up for Arabs in the region.

[OrangeKhrush]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They back ISIS, Al Qaeda, have ties with the Taliban, and are the largest spreaders of the Wahhabi ideology in the world. They're doing well to reduce the powers of political Islam in Saudi Arabia, but that's simply because it's a threat to their own monarchy. They aren't exactly people I would trust though to not foment more extremism outside of Saudi Arabia. They might be good for Newcastle United FC, but the amount of faith I have for them to produce any sort of meaningful peace in the Middle East is an absolute 0.

Imo the worst options in some sort of multinational coalition to set up a transitional government for Palestinians would be the 3 most troublesome nations in the Middle East.

• Saudi Arabia - have a history of fomenting extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, see above
• Iran - have a history of fomenting extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, notably in this conflict: Hezbollah (which they basically completely control at all levels) and Hamas
• Qatar - have a history of fomenting awful extremism and backing awful people for their own benefit, notably in this conflict: Hamas, who's leadership they house and protect

There's a reason MBS and his government have been very careful and deliberate regarding their statements on Israel. While he wants better relations with them and close ties to the West - his people largely fucking hate Israel and side strongly with Hamas. Being openly involved in trying to end this conflict with peace between both people will not sit well with many Saudi Arabs. For a man who's done a lot to ensure his people don't openly rebel against him... I'm not sure he wants to risk pissing off that many Arabs all at once.

With Jordan and Egypt, there's the same balancing act of what their government wants vs. what their people want - but they do have the vested interest of not having open and continuous conflict on their borders. They've got more skin in the game to actually create a lasting peace. Whereas MBS is pretty far removed from the suffering of Palestinians and Israelis and to an extent benefits greatly by continually using the plight of Palestinians as a prop to demonstrate how Saudi Arabia stands up for Arabs in the region.

Good and current.

https://unherd.com/2023/12/why-mbs-wants-peace-with-israel/

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Good and current.

https://unherd.com/2023/12/why-mbs-wants-peace-with-israel/

I hope one day all Middle Eastern countries make peace with one another, including all countries making peace with Israel and all countries making peace with Iran.

But I don't think now, with tensions being as high as they are - and with the aftermath of this war likely to leave a lot of resentment towards Israel from the Arab/Muslim world at large... it's not the right circumstances to have Saudi Arabia involved in setting up a legitimate government for Palestinians that actually cares for the national interest of Palestine.

It's one thing to balance Saudi's national interests on the conflict domestically and walk that tightrope. It gets much harder for them balancing their interests while also maintaining the grip of influence they want to have over the Arab world at large. Amongst Arabs, making peace with Israel is not popular. Resistance and victory from "river to sea" are very popular though. Can the Saudi monarchy enjoy the same influence if they come in to help remove extremism from Gazan governance while Iran, a country that is predominantly not Arab, would be seen as the dominant country in protecting Palestinian Arabs?

The best case scenario for MBS is he's seen as a bringer of peace in the eyes of the western world, but the worst case scenario for him is he's seen as a traitor to the Arab world and lose significant influence in the region to Iran. There's a reason why Saudi official statements on the conflict are very carefully worded to lay the blame at Israel's feet.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I hope one day all Middle Eastern countries make peace with one another, including all countries making peace with Israel and all countries making peace with Iran.

But I don't think now, with tensions being as high as they are - and with the aftermath of this war likely to leave a lot of resentment towards Israel from the Arab/Muslim world at large... it's not the right circumstances to have Saudi Arabia involved in setting up a legitimate government for Palestinians that actually cares for the national interest of Palestine.

It's one thing to balance Saudi's national interests on the conflict domestically and walk that tightrope. It gets much harder for them balancing their interests while also maintaining the grip of influence they want to have over the Arab world at large. Amongst Arabs, making peace with Israel is not popular. Resistance and victory from "river to sea" are very popular though. Can the Saudi monarchy enjoy the same influence if they come in to help remove extremism from Gazan governance while Iran, a country that is predominantly not Arab, would be seen as the dominant country in protecting Palestinian Arabs?

The best case scenario for MBS is he's seen as a bringer of peace in the eyes of the western world, but the worst case scenario for him is he's seen as a traitor to the Arab world and lose significant influence in the region to Iran. There's a reason why Saudi official statements on the conflict are very carefully worded to lay the blame at Israel's feet.

There was a good interview not long ago with MBS,  Saudi Arabia is at a internal change where their is a sect that is loyal to the old ways,  most younger generation Saudi's are relaxed on the old ways.   Bin Salman had said that his goal is to ensure the prosperity of Saudi Arabia,  but the balance of keeping both happy but accepting that some changes are needed. 

The common enemy of islamic jihad helps,  that said I think Saudi and the gulf states should be involved but America will need to be involved as well as they have the military power to dissuade rebel factions. 

Saudi Arabia is also making rapid grow in the quality of life index,  ranking 32nd,  7 points behind the UK and 3 behind the US,  it is marked down on the pollution index however that is rapidly falling as Saudi Arabia has reduced its fossil fuel growth and committed to alternative energy,  the numbers through Numbeo which do the official global rankings.   

There will be other changes over time however I value cultural identification and differences,  I may not agree on all aspects of Islam,  but I respect the right of a person to follow the faith and ways,  if we are to see more changes in aspects of life that may seem out of place in western society,  it does not get done by pushing change but a educational change,  it is the same way Jihad can be defeated,  if you promote value of life over necessity for death and martydom,  people start to push back. 

[Spike]

The conflict will never be resolved until either Iran or Saudi Arabia collapses and a new government is installed. Then what happens? Does the attention shift to the next realm to destabilise? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

There was a good interview not long ago with MBS,  Saudi Arabia is at a internal change where their is a sect that is loyal to the old ways,  most younger generation Saudi's are relaxed on the old ways.   Bin Salman had said that his goal is to ensure the prosperity of Saudi Arabia,  but the balance of keeping both happy but accepting that some changes are needed. 

The common enemy of islamic jihad helps,  that said I think Saudi and the gulf states should be involved but America will need to be involved as well as they have the military power to dissuade rebel factions. 

Saudi Arabia is also making rapid grow in the quality of life index,  ranking 32nd,  7 points behind the UK and 3 behind the US,  it is marked down on the pollution index however that is rapidly falling as Saudi Arabia has reduced its fossil fuel growth and committed to alternative energy,  the numbers through Numbeo which do the official global rankings.   

There will be other changes over time however I value cultural identification and differences,  I may not agree on all aspects of Islam,  but I respect the right of a person to follow the faith and ways,  if we are to see more changes in aspects of life that may seem out of place in western society,  it does not get done by pushing change but a educational change,  it is the same way Jihad can be defeated,  if you promote value of life over necessity for death and martydom,  people start to push back. 

I think the US is 6 ahead of the UK on the quality of life index - I would expect quality of life in Saudi Arabia to be higher than most Middle Eastern countries now that they've knocked off a lot of the gender apartheid shite and their own morality police has been scaled back significantly though. Tax free, oil subsidies pay for a lot of social benefits, and as mentioned a big relaxation in the societal rules that were previously imposed on them, though. Those are all things that would make life more comfortable for most.

Regardless, how good things may have become for Saudis in a short amount of time domestically doesn't really make an impact on their foreign policy goals. Saudi Arabia wants to be seen as the leader of Arabs and a power broker in the Middle East - doing something that is going to enflame the Arab population at large against the Saudi government isn't going to make it easy for them, in the short term at least, with respect to those goals.

I'm not sure I understand your last point. I don't think you can separate the concept of jihad from Islam. There's greater jihad (internal struggle with one's base impulses to conform with God's law) and there's lesser jihad (external struggle with non-believers), and different Muslim scholars have different takes on what both of those mean. If you're using jihad as a translation of "holy war" - I think that's a pretty huge oversimplification.

[Spike]

The only way Jihad can be defeated is if everyone awakens to Islam and submits to Allah’s will. Okay? Now do you prefer Ali or Abu Bakr? 

[6666]

With this new found love of Saudi Arabia, maybe sports washing is something that actually works...

It doesn't. But there are a few people that are extremely easily manipulated.

3 hours ago, Spike said:

The conflict will never be resolved until either Iran or Saudi Arabia collapses and a new government is installed. Then what happens? Does the attention shift to the next realm to destabilise? 

Conflicts will continue in the middle east as long as the US and US allies exist the way they do with their foreign policy encouraging and arming anyone they can if they feel they'll benefit from it. Africa is a big of the mess as well with the amount of corrupt governments there.

Every country needs to be dismantled. Except Israel as they only commit genocide for peace.

Zionist aliens are Earth's only hope.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

The conflict will never be resolved until Danny DeVito buys Israel

Fixed

[Spike]

14 minutes ago, 6666 said:

With this new found love of Saudi Arabia, maybe sports washing is something that actually works...

It doesn't. But there are a few people that are extremely easily manipulated.

Conflicts will continue in the middle east as long as the US and US allies exist the way they do with their foreign policy encouraging and arming anyone they can if they feel they'll benefit from it. Africa is a big of the mess as well with the amount of corrupt governments there.

Every country needs to be dismantled. Except Israel as they only commit genocide for peace.

Zionist aliens are Earth's only hope.

The USA and the allies are one part of the play, There are more actors than just them, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, Qatar, and these conflicts have repercussions in Central Asia, Asia Minor, Armenia, Azerbaijan, this is more complex than simply American intervention, which was more of an incubator that fostered these conditions.

[Dr. Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, 6666 said:

With this new found love of Saudi Arabia, maybe sports washing is something that actually works...

It doesn't. But there are a few people that are extremely easily manipulated.

Lol what?

"Maybe something that works, actually does work? Nah, it doesn't... except when it does."

So it does work.

[Beelzebub]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

A new fast urban response vehicle

[6666]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lol what?

"Maybe something that works, actually does work? Nah, it doesn't... except when it does."

So it does work.

On a significant scale, it doesn't work as people won't judge politics based on sports. That's simple and proven.

Suggesting that there can still be a few examples of it working with dumb people doesn't undermine that.

It'd be like me suggesting that you have to believe that sports washing works with every single person for you do have the opinion that sports washing works. It'd be a moronic comeback.

[6666]

5 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

A new fast urban response vehicle

Hopefully it explodes easy and takes out every IDF terrorist near it.

[OrangeKhrush]

16 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Hopefully it explodes easy and takes out every IDF terrorist near it.

lol so dramatic, is that you Hassan Piker

[OrangeKhrush]

8 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

 

kahanism is banned in Israel and even at its height it was overwhelmingly rejected, 1 seat in parliament across 12 years is pathetic.

it's also banned in Israel and was globally regarded a terrorist group until 2022 but in Israel they are still outlawed.

Netanyahu is unpopular and in order to get over the line he got in bed with ultra nationalists, a move that has all but killed his political chances going forward.   This notion of world domination and controlling everything fuels antisemitic rhetoric,  Hitler a prime case.

[6666]

18 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

lol so dramatic, is that you Hassan Piker

You're right, there's only a genocide going on. No need to be dramatic and be angry at those committing it. Silly me.

Israeli supporters really do lack any type of humanity. Gets proven again and again whenever you hear one of their supporters speak. They also generally tend to be bigoted people so it's unfortunately not even surprising.