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Will Mourinho Overtake Trappatoni For European Trophy Wins?

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Hugh Jass    58

Well I guess it depends 1) how long he will last at Man Utd for, and 2) when he leaves Man Utd will he seek out another big club job or will he then want the Portugal NT job. 

I certainly don't expect him to be managing Man Utd in the Europa League again, so he'll need to win the Champions League with them to at least equal the record. If hr does that he would become the first manager to win the Champions League with 3 different clubs. He'll certainly have a lot of money to spend so we'll see, but obviously at the moment Man Utd are well behind Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern and Barcelona (even if the latter have declined this season). 

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Hugh Jass    58
5 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Whats the 4th European trophy that Paisley won? The UEFA Cup?

Yes he won the 1976 UEFA Cup, and then the European Cup in 1977, 1978 and 1981. 

 

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Hugh Jass    58

It's interesting that Mourinho never won the Champions League at Real Madrid and Chelsea where he had his strongest squads. 

He had a ridiculously good squad at Real Madrid and Ronaldo had then hit his physical peak. It used to make me laugh when people talked about him taking on Barcelona as some sort of David vs. Goliath battle, when he inherited the most expensively assembled squad in history at that point which had finished with 96 points in La Liga the previous season. And in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 he had actually had a stronger squad and more depth than Barcelona, who had become way too reliant on Messi for goals and were weak in defence with Pique going off the boil and embracing his celebrity lifestyle too much (why he fell out with Guardiola) for a few years.  

And likewise during his first spell at Chelsea he also had an amazing squad with tremendous strength in depth, but Benitez's Liverpool or a Ronaldinho led Barcelona were standing in the way. 

His Inter team looked pretty weak in his first season in 2008/2009, and were poor in the Champions League, barely making out of a group with Panathinaikos, Werder Bremen and Anorthosis Famagusta with just 8 points. But then they had an excellent summer transfer-wise in 2009 bringing in Eto'o (making a tidy profit out of the Ibrahimovic vs. Eto'o plus cash deal), Sneijder, Lucio, Milito, Pandev, Motta to strengthen their first XI and their overall squad.  It was a great campaign for them to win that Champions League, beating Chelsea who would win a league and cup double, Barcelona who  would retain their La Liga title with 99 points, and Bayern who were also going for the treble, Inter's first for 44 years. 

At Porto, I think that his Porto team was assembled on a much smaller budget than O'Neill's Celtic team who they beat in the 2003 UEFA Cup final. So it was a myth that Celtic were some sort of plucky underdogs there. Rangers and Celtic were both spending a lot of money around that time. And to win a Champions League title with a Portuguese club in the modern day 32 team era, is just an outrageously good achievement. 

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SirBalon    717
57 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

It used to make me laugh when people talked about him taking on Barcelona as some sort of David vs. Goliath battle

He said that mate...  Mourinho himself kept on going on about that to make it into some sort of feat.

But it's a very good post mate.  I enjoyed reading that.

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Hugh Jass    58
1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

He said that mate...  Mourinho himself kept on going on about that to make it into some sort of feat.

But it's a very good post mate.  I enjoyed reading that.

Haha yes you're right he kept repeating it. It's unfortunate that a few people have bought into that nonsense.  A true underdog story right? 

Another myth that gets repeated, again started by Mourinho himself, is that he somehow ended Barcelona's domination during his time in Spain. That is again nonsense, and would be like saying Wenger ended Man Utd's domination in 1998, when Man Utd immediately resumed their domestic supremacy the next season. He ignores that the fact that in 2012-2013 he had to humiliatingly and publicly concede that the title race was over as early as November, as Barcelona regained their title easily with no trouble at all. I think that 2012-2013 saw the largest ever points difference between the champions and the runners-up in La Liga. His 2011-2012 La title, as impressive as it was in terms of points, goals and away wins, was nothing more than a brief interruption or pause during Barcelona's period of domestic dominance. 

He didn't fail at Real Madrid of course, but I don't think he was an amazing success either. 1 La Liga and 1 Copa Del Rey title in 3 years at a club that size and with that amazing wealth talent is acceptable, but not particularly outstanding. And those achievements have to be balanced out by the fact that he fell out with everyone, from Perez to Valdano, to his medical staff (sound familiar?) to his 3 most influential players (Ronaldo, Casillas and Ramos) to his 2 most trusted servants on the pitch (Pepe and Arbeloa) to the Spanish media in general. 

Edited by Hugh Jass
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SirBalon    717
15 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Haha yes you're right he kept repeating it. It's unfortunate that a few people have bought into that nonsense.  A true underdog story right? 

Another myth that gets repeated, again started by Mourinho himself, is that he somehow ended Barcelona's domination during his time in Spain. That is again nonsense, and would be like saying Wenger ended Man Utd's domination in 1998, when Man Utd immediately resumed their domestic supremacy the next season. He ignores that the fact that in 2012-2013 he had to humiliatingly and publicly concede that the title race was over as early as November, as Barcelona regained their title easily with no trouble at all. I think that 2012-2013 saw the largest ever points difference between the champions and the runners-up in La Liga. His 2011-2012 La title, as impressive as it was in terms of points, goals and away wins, was nothing more than a brief interruption or pause during Barcelona's period of domestic dominance. 

He didn't fail at Real Madrid of course, but I don't think he was an amazing success either. 1 La Liga and 1 Copa Del Rey title in 3 years at a club that size and with that amazing wealth talent is acceptable, but not particularly outstanding. And those achievements have to be balanced out by the fact he out with everyone, from Perez to Valdano, to his medical staff (sound familiar?) to his 3 most influential players (Ronaldo, Casillas and Ramos) to his 2 most trusted servants on the pitch (Pepe and Arbeloa) to the Spanish media in general. 

Perfect! EXACTLY how it was and how it continues to be. 

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