The Freddy Adu Of Your Country

[Mpache]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

Imagine relying on your memory and actual experience of watching a player probably close to 100 times LIVE to actually judge said player 

I’m out. 

I trust you in terms of what a player he was. You're a United fan and way older than I am.

Surely you didn't think he was the best player in the world though?

The media hyped him up in 2004. I literally provided a piece from that timeline. It's that simple. Whether he was world class or not is another debate, but we're talking about what he was seen to be.

As Nudge said, he doesn't belong in this thread.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

Imagine relying on your memory and actual experience of watching a player probably close to 100 times LIVE to actually judge said player 

I’m out. 

Yeah but memory in your old age sometimes wanes

Just now, Eco said:

My point being that media are quick to assess someone's potential as greater than it is because it'll sell more copies. No longer is (the majority) of journalism based on facts, but more on opinions and whatever sells. 

I know mate.

Far too many in the media these days want to find 'the next...' and when that player does one or two things wrong down the line it's over and that hype/potential is gone, and they're written off. 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

So Xavi and Iniesta? Two other players who would go down as the greatest of all time?

Thank you for proving mine. 

I just looked at the ballon d or winners over the years you mentioned, Rooney had a twelfth, fifth, eighth and one finish not in top twenty and so unrecorded. If he had lived up to his full potential he would have done better than that

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

Article asks if he would be the new Pele. 

Not that he would be the new Pele...

It's literally the same thing...

It's a question rather than an answer, but the same sort of pressure goes towards that youngster.

Anyways, here is another piece from 2004, in case I missed anything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2004/3828041.stm

If this piece doesn't regard inflation, I don't know what does.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I just looked at the ballon d or winners over the years you mentioned, Rooney had a twelfth, fifth, eighth and one finish not in top twenty and so unrecorded. If he had lived up to his full potential he would have done better than that

I’m not sure individual awards like that are the best way to judge a players career. How many Balon d’Ors did Ronaldinho have?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, nudge said:

You can't mention him in the same thread with Adu, Marin, Holtby, etc and don't expect the backlash though  

 

I agree but I was talking about a player who I didn't feel achieved his full potential. I never said he was shit I made that point quite clear 

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’m not sure individual awards like that are the best way to judge a players career. How many Balon d’Ors did Cruyff have?

Ballon D'or is just an example, I think most people would agree in that he wasn't the best or even a top 5 player in the world, what he was tipped to become at first.

[Stan]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’m not sure individual awards like that are the best way to judge a players career. How many Balon d’Ors did Cruyff have?

Was just thinking this. 

Whatever happened to the likes of Pirlo, Totti, Del Piero, Seedorf, Vieira, Aguero, Suarez, Ibra, Riquelme?

Not in the Ballon d'Or list so can't have been that good?

[Mpache]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

I agree but I was talking about a player who I didn't feel achieved his full potential. I never said he was shit I made that point quite clear 

To be fair mate you shouldn't have brought it up here. Because it's not the right thread to do so.

I agree with all your points on Rooney but it's just not the right thread to discuss it because Rooney was way above some of the players mentioned here.

[DeadLinesman]

1 minute ago, Inti Brian said:

I trust you in terms of what a player he was. You're a United fan and way older than I am.

Surely you didn't think he was the best player in the world though?

The media hyped him up in 2004. I literally provided a piece from that timeline. It's that simple. Whether he was world class or not is another debate, but we're talking about what he was seen to be.

As Nudge said, he doesn't belong in this thread.

Wayne Rooney was absolutely world class during a portion of his career. That is reaching your potential. Just because Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo come along (plus several other world class players), doesn’t mean Rooney didn’t reach his potential. Do you know how many players have actually been the best in the world over the last 10 years? 3 isn’t it? So nobody else lived upto their potential? It’s an absolutely bonkers way of judging players.

Again, someone like Paul Scholes is deemed by Xavi to be the greatest midfielder circa ‘96 -‘09 and yet he never got near a Ballon d’Or. You can’t judge being world class on a singular title or award. There’s so many different levels to it.   

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’m not sure individual awards like that are the best way to judge a players career. How many Balon d’Ors did Ronaldinho have?

I'd imagine at least one but ronaldinho was one of the best players on his day but not consistent. But 2006 he was Messi and Ronaldo level though

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

Was just thinking this. 

Whatever happened to the likes of Pirlo, Totti, Del Piero, Seedorf, Vieira, Aguero, Suarez, Ibra, Riquelme?

Not in the Ballon d'Or list so can't have been that good?

I never said Rooney wasn't good Stan. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'd imagine at least one but ronaldinho was one of the best players on his day but not consistent. But 2006 he was Messi and Ronaldo level though

I disagree when it comes to his Barca years. I don't remember too much from his PSG years but there's a reason Barca wanted and signed him and he was quality for 5 years with them. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Inti Brian said:

To be fair mate you shouldn't have brought it up here. Because it's not the right thread to do so.

I agree with all your points on Rooney but it's just not the right thread to discuss it because Rooney was way above some of the players mentioned here.

I agree but if we had a thread about players who didn't appear to reach their full potential we would still be going around in circles 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I never said Rooney wasn't good Stan. 

No but Ballon d'Or was brought up as some barometer for success, which in my opinion is such a flawed argument considering the players some were up against for the last 10-15 years. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Inti Brian said:

Ballon D'or is just an example, I think most people would agree in that he wasn't the best or even a top 5 player in the world, what he was tipped to become at first.

... Rooney has a career most players in the world would probably kill to have.

You want to talk about players that really failed to meet expectations, I assume, but I think you’d have to be mental to throw Rooney in with that.

What about Bruno Cheyrou (the next Zidane), Johan Gourcuff (the other next Zidane), Anthony Le Tallec (the next Platini).

Those are far better examples of players who failed to live up to potential. Not a guy who performed for club and country, like Rooney.

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

Wayne Rooney was absolutely world class during a portion of his career. That is reaching your potential. Just because Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo come along (plus several other world class players), doesn’t mean Rooney didn’t reach his potential. Do you know how many players have actually been the best in the world over the last 10 years? 3 isn’t it? So nobody else lived upto their potential? It’s an absolutely bonkers way of judging players.

Again, someone like Paul Scholes is deemed by Xavi to be the greatest midfielder circa ‘96 -‘09 and yet he never got near a Ballon d’Or. You can’t judge being world class on a singular title or award. There’s so many different levels to it.   

Fair enough. I don't think like that personally. Just becoming world class and being questioned for it by some people isn't reaching your potential in my mind when he shouldn't have been questioned at all, but I can see where you're coming from if that's your way of judging things. I don't stop at just the term "world class" or "elite", but that's me.

As I said, as someone who followed Jefferson Farfan, he was also arguably world class in his prime, but he was seen to become way better than that. I'd go as far as say Alexis Sanchez. He didn't, but he was still the best Peruvian to play the game since the 1970's. 

It's a valid thing to say Rooney didn't live up to his potential if you scab back at all the newspapers back then. Each to their own though.

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

I disagree when it comes to his Barca years. I don't remember too much from his PSG years but there's a reason Barca wanted and signed him and he was quality for 5 years with them. 

I can't remember if I'm honest but I know he was incredible in 2006 and the season before. He then seemed to loose form for some reason. I think a lot of managers said he was hard to motivate at times.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

... Rooney has a career most players in the world would probably kill to have.

You want to talk about players that really failed to meet expectations, I assume, but I think you’d have to be mental to throw Rooney in with that.

What about Bruno Cheyrou (the next Zidane), Johan Gourcuff (the other next Zidane), Anthony Le Tallec (the next Platini).

Those are far better examples of players who failed to live up to potential. Not a guy who performed for club and country, like Rooney.

These players remind of Neil Mellor in that Liverpool era too. 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I can't remember if I'm honest but I know he was incredible in 2006 and the season before. He then seemed to loose form for some reason. I think a lot of managers said he was hard to motivate at times.

His party lifestyle off the pitch.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

No but Ballon d'Or was brought up as some barometer for success, which in my opinion is such a flawed argument considering the players some were up against for the last 10-15 years. 

If you were tipped to be the best player in the world and in your best years you finished 5th 8th, 12th and below the top twenty even if you don't regard to ballon d or highly it is still unlikely you reached your full potential. 

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

It's a valid thing to say Rooney didn't live up to his potential if you scab back at all the newspapers back then. Each to their own though.

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

If you were tipped to be the best player in the world and in your best years you finished 5th 8th, 12th and below the top twenty even if you don't regard to ballon d or highly it is still unlikely you reached your full potential. 

Nah let's not use this basis.

Just use the basis that there was always at least 7 players better than him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Stan said:

These players remind of Neil Mellor in that Liverpool era too. 

I feel like just looking at Neil Mellor, you could see he was never really going to make it as a top flight player despite his incredible goalscoring record at the reserves and youth level.

He looked like Stevie G’s fat older brother, despite being a few years younger. He didn’t look like a top flight footballer at all.

He and Sinama-Pongolle had some big moments for us that season - I thought Sinama-Pongolle might have actually developed into a decent player at that point in time too (if I recall, he had been given the tag “the next Henry” by Houllier... who kept cursing his signings with these labels he kept putting on them). But I never really had the same confidence in Mellor.

My brother thought he’d be the next Fowler though just because of his record in our youth team though.

There’s probably a shitload of Ged Houllier signings for Liverpool that are a better fit for this thread than fucking Rooney , post heart-attack Houllier era Liverpool was an era of utterly shite signings for the most part

[Guest]

Just now, Inti Brian said:

Nah let's not use this basis.

Just use the basis that there was always at least 7 players better than him.

I'm just using it because I can't remember back then exactly. But yeah there were normally between 4 and 7. Which is a lot for a player who was supposed to be the next best player in the world. I mean if mbappe were to have the career that Rooney had it would be fair to say he hasn't reached his full potential even if it was a great career.  Well Rooney was regarded that highly at his age.