Bluewolf Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 hours ago, LFCMike said: I'm always amazed that fouls like this don't result in a penalty. This isn't a 'only Man Utd get away with stuff like this' post either. I've seen plenty of incidents like this one that don't result in a penalty That second one is even worse than the first... Completely takes out the man then does that arms above head thing so as to say to the ref "didn't touch him ref, wasn't me!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 If only you lot were half as angry about this one as well………. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 30, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, DeadLinesman said: If only you lot were half as angry about this one as well………. It's on Fernandes so fair game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stan said: It's on Fernandes so fair game My point exactly. Not a joke though is it? Everyone is rightly outraged by some crude tackles, but against United or Fernandes? Well it’s fair game. Wait until Burnley inevitably kick the fuck out of us and it will be hilarious, a bit like Liverpool last week. Outrage against Leeds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: If only you lot were half as angry about this one as well………. This didn't lead to a Wolves goal though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cicero said: This didn't lead to a Wolves goal though? And? So it wasn’t a foul because it didn’t lead to a goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: My point exactly. Not a joke though is it? Everyone is rightly outraged by some crude tackles, but against United or Fernandes? Well it’s fair game. Wait until Burnley inevitably kick the fuck out of us and it will be hilarious, a bit like Liverpool last week. Outrage against Leeds though. 20 minutes ago, Cicero said: This didn't lead to a Wolves goal though? I think that's where people take exception when a foul leads to an advantage for one side or another via a goal, when an incident takes place that's a clear foul but no advantage is gained from it then people are less likely to start waving fists in the air.. As Rando pointed out earlier though it's the officials that are to blame.. If a foul is committed right in front of them and they let it go and VAR do the same it's that system that is failing to apply the letter of the law.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: And? So it wasn’t a foul because it didn’t lead to a goal? You claimed there was no outcry for Bruno when it isn't comparable to Neves considering both were fouls yet one actually resulted in a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 30 minutes ago, Cicero said: You claimed there was no outcry for Bruno when it isn't comparable to Neves considering both were fouls yet one actually resulted in a goal. No. My point is a foul is a foul. That’s literally the bottom line. The consequences of what happens after are irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I think that's where people take exception when a foul leads to an advantage for one side or another via a goal, when an incident takes place that's a clear foul but no advantage is gained from it then people are less likely to start waving fists in the air.. As Rando pointed out earlier though it's the officials that are to blame.. If a foul is committed right in front of them and they let it go and VAR do the same it's that system that is failing to apply the letter of the law.. My whole point though is that a shin high challenge shouldn’t only be cried about if it’s ignored and leads to a goal, rather than ignored but nothing of consequence happens. That’s my only point. I’ve already stated if the shoes on the other foot, I’m probably moaning as a United fan. I thought I raised a decent point about what exact contact was made though and how the officials may have interpreted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 30, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said: My point exactly. Not a joke though is it? Everyone is rightly outraged by some crude tackles, but against United or Fernandes? Well it’s fair game. Wait until Burnley inevitably kick the fuck out of us and it will be hilarious, a bit like Liverpool last week. Outrage against Leeds though. My post was light-hearted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Mike Dean was right on the spot, saw the tackle clearly and in conversation with VAR officials acknowledged that he saw the play clearly and while there was contact it was not a foul. Since Dean saw the play clearly and believed he made the right decision, that should be the end if it. VAR should only come into play if the ref doesn't see the play or his view is blocked and he is not 100% sure of the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, Redcanuck said: Mike Dean was right on the spot, saw the tackle clearly and in conversation with VAR officials acknowledged that he saw the play clearly and while there was contact it was not a foul. Since Dean saw the play clearly and believed he made the right decision, that should be the end if it. VAR should only come into play if the ref doesn't see the play or his view is blocked and he is not 100% sure of the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: My whole point though is that a shin high challenge shouldn’t only be cried about if it’s ignored and leads to a goal, rather than ignored but nothing of consequence happens. That’s my only point. I’ve already stated if the shoes on the other foot, I’m probably moaning as a United fan. I thought I raised a decent point about what exact contact was made though and how the officials may have interpreted it. 1 minute ago, Redcanuck said: Mike Dean was right on the spot, saw the tackle clearly and in conversation with VAR officials acknowledged that he saw the play clearly and while there was contact it was not a foul. Since Dean saw the play clearly and believed he made the right decision, that should be the end if it. VAR should only come into play if the ref doesn't see the play or his view is blocked and he is not 100% sure of the decision. I think we could argue the point until I am old and grey which is obviously some way off yet but as long as officials and VAR keep getting calls wrong and they are not being held accountable for it long will it continue to be a source of frustration for fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I think we could argue the point until I am old and grey which is obviously some way off yet but as long as officials and VAR keep getting calls wrong and they are not being held accountable for it long will it continue to be a source of frustration for fans... The main issues right now is that we still have some refs who make rulings based off of 'their interpretation' rather than sticking to the laws of the game. That is my gripe. Balbuena gets sent off for the follow through challenge. Harsh, but fair enough the ref stuck with the law of the game. James gets sent off for preventing a goal with his hand. Harsh, but fair enough the ref stuck with the law of the game. Pogba makes a foul on Neves but Mike Dean claims there wasn't enough in it to be deemed a foul and doesn't stick with the law of the game that describes careless challenges. It's always destined to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 30, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Redcanuck said: Mike Dean was right on the spot, saw the tackle clearly and in conversation with VAR officials acknowledged that he saw the play clearly and while there was contact it was not a foul. Since Dean saw the play clearly and believed he made the right decision, that should be the end if it. VAR should only come into play if the ref doesn't see the play or his view is blocked and he is not 100% sure of the decision. I'm not sure that's the criteria for which VAR is used for. There have been decisions where the ref has clearly seen a phase of play such as a foul, carried on with the game and then had to re-referee his own decision by being asked to go to the monitor because the VAR official has had a word. Case in point being Perez' red card against West Ham. Michael Oliver saw it clearly, played on and didn't even give a free kick. VAR has a look at it, and ultimately Oliver totally reverses his decision even though he saw the play, was 100% sure to allow play to go on given he didn't even give a foul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I think we could argue the point until I am old and grey which is obviously some way off yet but as long as officials and VAR keep getting calls wrong and they are not being held accountable for it long will it continue to be a source of frustration for fans... Personally I thought it was a foul because Pogba's foot went over the top of the ball into Neves. I still think it's a foul if there is little or no contact and he only caught the shin pad and not Neves' leg, because the intent is there. However, Mike Dean who had the best view and whose opinion counts the most didn't think it was a foul. I just don't think VAR should be over ruling a decision that a ref sees clearly and is adamant he nade the right call. You undermind the refs authority if you do and it makes it harder for him to control the game because the players will be questioning every decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Redcanuck said: Personally I thought it was a foul because Pogba's foot went over the top of the ball into Neves. I still think it's a foul if there is little or no contact and he only caught the shin pad and not Neves' leg, because the intent is there. However, Mike Dean who had the best view and whose opinion counts the most didn't think it was a foul. I just don't think VAR should be over ruling a decision that a ref sees clearly and is adamant he nade the right call. You undermind the refs authority if you do and it makes it harder for him to control the game because the players will be questioning every decision. And there lies the problem. Giving egotistical twats like Mike Dean total control isn't going to fix this issue long term. Either follow by the laws of the game consistently, or scrap this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Stan said: I'm not sure that's the criteria for which VAR is used for. There have been decisions where the ref has clearly seen a phase of play such as a foul, carried on with the game and then had to re-referee his own decision by being asked to go to the monitor because the VAR official has had a word. Case in point being Perez' red card against West Ham. Michael Oliver saw it clearly, played on and didn't even give a free kick. VAR has a look at it, and ultimately Oliver totally reverses his decision even though he saw the play, was 100% sure to allow play to go on given he didn't even give a foul... I know it's not the criteria, but I think it should be. Living in North America, I watch some of the sports here and all sports have some version of VAR . They seem to give a lot more say to the refs original decision and don't overturn them that much if the ref has a clear view of the play. VAR never asked Dean to review his decision, I believe. So they must have agreed with his call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cicero said: And there lies the problem. Giving egotistical twats like Mike Dean total control isn't going to fix this issue long term. Either follow by the laws of the game consistently, or scrap this whole thing. I have never been a fan, I would scrap the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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