How much should governments intervene in private life ?

[Azeem]

An issue that is becoming serious by the day around the world and covid has polarised this conversation even more. About 20-30 years ago it was mostly a problem in places with authoritarian/dictator govts but now it's much more a wider problem 

[Ploughendplonker]

I really don't see how bigger government (regardless of party involved) ends well. 

For example, a comedian has been banned from performing in a local theatre in Sheffield because the council don't like his brand of comedy;

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics/roy-chubby-brown-show-in-sheffield-axed-following-complaints-3360317

I've never seen this particular comedian perform, and nor do I plan to, but find it quite chilling that councillors (who are meant to be there to monitor and improve public services) are allowed to dictate what performing arts are allowed to be performed. This is not the actions of a free country. 

[nudge+]

As little as possible. 

Collect taxes and use it to build and maintain infrastructure, organise and fund social, healthcare and emergency services. Other than that, fuck off and let people be.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ploughendplonker said:

I really don't see how bigger government (regardless of party involved) ends well. 

For example, a comedian has been banned from performing in a local theatre in Sheffield because the council don't like his brand of comedy;

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics/roy-chubby-brown-show-in-sheffield-axed-following-complaints-3360317

I've never seen this particular comedian perform, and nor do I plan to, but find it quite chilling that councillors (who are meant to be there to monitor and improve public services) are allowed to dictate what performing arts are allowed to be performed. This is not the actions of a free country. 

To be fair he was banned from the city hall which is a council property not a private property. I have a few of his DVDs. He can be racist and homophobic. Also there is probably a realistic possibility he may encourage people to not get vaccinated etc. 

[Ploughendplonker]

12 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

To be fair he was banned from the city hall which is a council property not a private property. I have a few of his DVDs. He can be racist and homophobic. Also there is probably a realistic possibility he may encourage people to not get vaccinated etc. 

I still don't think a council should dictate what performing arts are appropriate. It's not about the comedian they've banned (I've personally never seen any of his comedy) but it basically means any comedian who courts any kind of controversy can be banned from performing under the 'doesn't reflect our values' excuse. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ploughendplonker said:

I still don't think a council should dictate what performing arts are appropriate. It's not about the comedian they've banned (I've personally never seen any of his comedy) but it basically means any comedian who courts any kind of controversy can be banned from performing under the 'doesn't reflect our values' excuse. 

I get what you mean but it is a council property so I think it's ok. I  feel like a council not wanting something on their property is ok. That doesn't bother me i don't feel that is encroaching our rights at all. I they had gone into a private property I would  be against that. 

[Ploughendplonker]

But the council property is, presumably, paid for by tax payers. Private businesses can do what they like, but the council, councillors, and also the theatre, are likely to be funded by public money. The councillors are there to ensure the running of public services, and not to be the arbiters of good taste. 

I don't want this to sound like a defence of this particular comedian, like I said I've never seen any of his work, but I feel this sets a precedent for any comedian (or any performer) that is deemed to be controversial to be withdrawn by any power. 

To give an example of my concern (I respect the above may sound like I'm banging the 'you can't say anything nowadays' drum) if, at the next Edinburgh Fringe Festival, one of the many comedians who performs tells a joke some people don't like, can they just be withdrawn from performing? 

[RandoEFC+]

Enough to make sure people have access to education, healthcare, housing, food, safety, etc of a good quality. Whether that is "a little" or "a lot" depends on the geopolitical and socioeconomic circumstances of the country and what your perceptions of "a little" and "a lot" amount to.

The problem is some people pretend that stuff like subsidising university education and expecting multinational corporations and billionaires to contribute 0.2% more of their income for the better of the country they inhabit is "big government" or, in UK newspaper columns, "Marxism", which infests the public debate and makes it impossible to have a rational debate with a lot of people about how relatively marginal changes to the way a country is governed can improve the lives of the vast majority of its inhabitants.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ploughendplonker said:

But the council property is, presumably, paid for by tax payers. Private businesses can do what they like, but the council, councillors, and also the theatre, are likely to be funded by public money. The councillors are there to ensure the running of public services, and not to be the arbiters of good taste. 

I don't want this to sound like a defence of this particular comedian, like I said I've never seen any of his work, but I feel this sets a precedent for any comedian (or any performer) that is deemed to be controversial to be withdrawn by any power. 

To give an example of my concern (I respect the above may sound like I'm banging the 'you can't say anything nowadays' drum) if, at the next Edinburgh Fringe Festival, one of the many comedians who performs tells a joke some people don't like, can they just be withdrawn from performing? 

You have a good point mate.  Chubby brown is very offensive though mate. Like I said he is homophobic and racist, probably xenophobic as well. And this is the stuff that gets on his DVDs I can understand why a council would prefer  not to have their name associated with him. But I understand why many wouldn't agree 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Enough to make sure people have access to education, healthcare, housing, food, safety, etc of a good quality. Whether that is "a little" or "a lot" depends on the geopolitical and socioeconomic circumstances of the country and what your perceptions of "a little" and "a lot" amount to.

The problem is some people pretend that stuff like subsidising university education and expecting multinational corporations and billionaires to contribute 0.2% more of their income for the better of the country they inhabit is "big government" or, in UK newspaper columns, "Marxism", which infests the public debate and makes it impossible to have a rational debate with a lot of people about how relatively marginal changes to the way a country is governed can improve the lives of the vast majority of its inhabitants.

I don't really have enough knowledge to debate the subject but I do like to discuss it. Some people say that the super rich shouldn't have to pay more tax because they earn it it's there money. However the economy is largely controlled by the rich and they manipulate it to benefit themselves.  Some may argue they are already taking more than their fair share and that is having a negative effect on poorer people(especially the very poor) through pricing, wages etc. Therefor it is fair to tax them more and use it to help the poorer.

[Ploughendplonker]

13 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

You have a good point mate.  Chubby brown is very offensive though mate. Like I said he is homophobic and racist, probably xenophobic as well. And this is the stuff that gets on his DVDs I can understand why a council would prefer  not to have their name associated with him. But I understand why many wouldn't agree 

If I was convinced that this was a complete one-off spasm of authoritarianism from the council reserved specifically for Chubby Brown then I wouldn't particularly care, as I hold no candle for him. My main concern as this becomes council policy with any comedian who performs even slightly risque material. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 06/09/2021 at 07:02, nudge said:

As little as possible. 

Collect taxes and use it to build and maintain infrastructure, organise and fund social, healthcare and emergency services. Other than that, fuck off and let people be.

I agree with this - although I'd add education as one of the core services (I guess it's probably a social service) a government should be providing. Governments exist to provide for the people they collect taxes from. So providing infrastructure, basic services people need (like police, hospitals, schools) and making them as high quality as possible with the tax revenue available should be the number one priority.

I don't really think the government has any business telling people to: play video games less, watch tv, not drink as much sugary bullshit drinks, smoke less, etc... (although I think there's a decent argument that things like smoking and obesity put an unnecessary strain on shit like the NHS - which is paid for by tax money... so the government does have an interest in the public being more healthy. It's a good argument, tbh, I just don't agree with it). Imo it's not the government's job to be everyone's nanny.

However, I do agree with the government having broad emergency powers for shit like COVID. Nobody wants to lock down, but I think the measures are pretty logical (especially before we had a vaccine available).

[Batard]

I'm a bit fucked off with the Conservative Party. We know that money had to be found to fill the economic black hole started by COVID, but this government has some fucking cheek. The UK exited the worlds single largest market - so there are less opportunities to earn and the price of goods and living is increasing. 

I hope those who voted for Brexit so in the belief it was 'restoring U.K. sovereignty' are revising their choice. 

On top of the cost of living being a total cunt, I will earn less and less the more I earn due to these taxation hikes. Of course yet again they protect large corporates and hammer high earners and small to medium businesses. I wish I'd taken the job in Dubai now.