Motorsports - General Chat

[RandoEFC+]

 https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130884/dtm-set-to-drop-performance-weights

DTM planning to do away with the controversial performance ballast system. Good. 

[nudge]

ENEOS 1006 km race in Palanga, LT took place this weekend. I attended it numerous times in the past, and it must be one of the craziest events I've ever witnessed haha. The track lies on the intersection of two highways with a Suzuka-style crossover and the drivers use an ordinary petrol station to refuel  The grid is usually very varied, with some weird choices like this custom LADA 2104 Turbo with a 3.7l Ford Mustang engine here:

It's a great fun. Motors TV did a report on the race in 2016:

 

[Tommy]

The end of an era. 

[nudge]

19 hours ago, Tsubasa said:

The end of an era. 

It's a pity, hope someone else will step in instead of Mercedes, there are apparently talks ongoing already with interested manufacturers. I also heard that at least one of Asian brands (Toyota?) could be interested in joining in 2019, once DTM implements new engine and chassis rules. Either that, or we will have a joint DTM-Japanese Super GT-American IMSA international series instead...

[God is Haaland]

22 hours ago, Tsubasa said:

The end of an era. 

Could be the end of the DTM tbh.

[nudge]

24 hours of Spa taking place 27-30th July, free HD stream of pre-qualifying, qualifying and the race available here: https://www.motorsport-total.com/mehr/blancpain-gt-series-live-stream

[God is Haaland]

Not looking good for other motorsports. DTM and Le Mans are practially dead.

[nudge]

Porsche now consider exiting Le Mans too...We need rule simplification and cost-cutting to attract more manufacturers and teams to LMP1, the current hybrid technology is too expensive, too unreliable, and too pointless. I personally prefer GTE class anyway, but without LMP1, Le Mans will surely lose a lot of appeal and prestige.

Everyone seems to be switching to stupid Formula E 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Maybe Formula E is the future challenger to F1?

I've personally never watched Le Mans or Indy Car or any other single seater series besides Formula 1, I've never watched a single session of Formula E either. The only interest I take in those events is if a former F1 driver I have an interest in is taking part. The Indy 500 is one of the greatest races in the world and I only watched parts of that this year because Alonso was taking part.

Sadly I just can't be entertained by other single seaters when I know they're pretty much just slower variations of F1 machines and often driven by guys who couldn't make it in F1.

I have more time for Touring Cars and Motorbikes, because it's actually a different discipline.

It is worrying though how much manufacturers are cutting back from motorsports, but if people aren't paying attention to DTM or LMP1 they have no incentive as a business to spend millions of pounds investing in a sport which is going to yield only a relatively small positive impact on their brand if they're successful. 

[nudge]

12 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Maybe Formula E is the future challenger to F1?

I've personally never watched Le Mans or Indy Car or any other single seater series besides Formula 1, I've never watched a single session of Formula E either. The only interest I take in those events is if a former F1 driver I have an interest in is taking part. The Indy 500 is one of the greatest races in the world and I only watched parts of that this year because Alonso was taking part.

Sadly I just can't be entertained by other single seaters when I know they're pretty much just slower variations of F1 machines and often driven by guys who couldn't make it in F1.

I have more time for Touring Cars and Motorbikes, because it's actually a different discipline.

It is worrying though how much manufacturers are cutting back from motorsports, but if people aren't paying attention to DTM or LMP1 they have no incentive as a business to spend millions of pounds investing in a sport which is going to yield only a relatively small positive impact on their brand if they're successful. 

With the whole automotive industry moving towards 100% electrification, it's easy to understand why Formula E is suddenly gaining more and more attention from manufacturers in favour of other series,; it's surely a good part of marketing for them in order to test new improvements and, in the end, to sell more electric cars. However, even with the ongoing technology advances, it will take at least 20-30 years for Formula E to even get close to challenging F1, in my opinion. 

I'm not much of a fan of prototype racing altogether, but I think LMP1 could have continued to play an important role in racing if ACO had realised lack of competitiveness issues early on and opened up the regs a bit to allow more manufacturers as well as privateers in.  As it stands now, the cars are too complex and expensive to be run by anyone other than factory teams. At any case, I don't think it's fair to compare Le Mans Prototypes with F1; one is built for endurance the other for sprint, it's two completely different racing cultures serving different purposes, in my opinion. Technically, LMP cars are not even single-seaters. 

I personally prefer GT endurance racing due to more competitiveness and parity, more action, more varied grids and differences between the cars in general, more diverse engineering solutions and the fact that technology used is of much more relevance to road cars. Still enjoy F1 though. 

I just wonder what happens with motorsports in general once ICEs get completely banned, as we're definitely moving towards it?... 

Edited July 28, 2017 by nudge

[God is Haaland]

On 27.7.2017 at 11:26 PM, nudge said:

Porsche now consider exiting Le Mans too...We need rule simplification and cost-cutting to attract more manufacturers and teams to LMP1, the current hybrid technology is too expensive, too unreliable, and too pointless.

Don't forget we have all those safety regulations, which make motorsports boring, but at the same time this  does still exist.

On 28.7.2017 at 2:27 PM, nudge said:

I personally prefer GT endurance racing due to more competitiveness and parity....

... unless the ACO keeps trying to lure in manufacturers by allowing them to enter prototypes in GTE pro.

 

 

[nudge]

37 minutes ago, True Bender said:

Don't forget we have all those safety regulations, which make motorsports boring, but at the same time this  does still exist.

... unless the ACO keeps trying to lure in manufacturers by allowing them to enter prototypes in GTE pro.

 

 

Haha, that new Ford GT was indeed a bit of a cheater car, but to be fair, they are not the first ones to produce limited road-going versions of their new racing cars solely to meet homologation rules; the governing bodies of most series have always been very lenient about it.

As for dangers of motorsports - it's always going to be there, that's the very nature and the main source of excitement. I'm not sure what does it have to do with my post, though. 

[God is Haaland]

1 minute ago, nudge said:

Haha, that new Ford GT was indeed a bit of a cheater car, but to be fair, they are not the first ones to produce limited road-going versions of their new racing cars solely to meet homologation rules; the governing bodies of most series have always been very lenient about it.

Ford didn't meet the homologation rules. They simply "promised" to produce and sell 36 (or w/e th number was) at some undisclosed point in the future. At the time when they entered le mans they hadn't produced a single one for the market if i remember correctly.

1 minute ago, nudge said:

As for dangers of motorsports - it's always going to be there, that's the very nature and the main source of excitement. I'm not sure what does it have to do with my post, though. 

It's absurd to make racing so boring and expensive with all those sefety regulations, but at the same time not remove a tree that's directly behind a armco barrier, when this is way more dangerous than crashing at 50kph higher speed. Removing a tree is also not very expensive.

[nudge]

Just now, True Bender said:

Ford didn't meet the homologation rules. They simply "promised" to produce and sell 36 (or w/e th number was) at some undisclosed point in the future. At the time when they entered le mans they hadn't produced a single one for the market if i remember correctly.

It's absurd to make racing so boring and expensive with all those sefety regulations, but at the same time not remove a tree that's directly behind a armco barrier, when this is way more dangerous than crashing at 50kph higher speed. Removing a tree is also not very expensive.

Ah ok, I get it now. You're right of course, and that was really an unnecessary death which could have been easily avoided if it weren't for incompetence - or rather negligence - of organisers.

As for Ford, I think they still have only delivered 50 of those road-going models of GT, haha. I think they've got a waiver to enter the race as a PR event to that 50 years anniversary of winning Le Mans the last time. That of course doesn't make it fair at all though.

[nudge]

Sainteloc-Audi R8 (Christopher Haase, Jules Gounon and Markus Winkelhock) have just won 24 hours of Spa. Bentley Continental GT finished 2nd, Mercedes AMG GT3 (Team Akka ASP) 3rd. Timo Bernhard team's Porsche 911 GT3 had all the chances to win the race, great performance, but due to getting 3 minute stop & go + a drivetrough penalty early into the race they only finished 4th. 

Pretty exciting race altogether.

[Tommy]

Sophia Floersch achieved her first podium in ADAC's Formula 4 today 

[nudge]

 

Quote

 

Lexus and Nismo cars to demo at DTM season finale

A delegation from the Japanese Super GT Championship will be in the DTM paddock at the season finale at the Hockenheimring, with Lexus and Nismo cars set to complete demonstration runs ahead of a possible cooperation with the series.

In the wake of Mercedes announcing its departure from the DTM at the end of the 2018 season, DTM organiser ITR have stepped up efforts to secure additional manufacturers to race alongside Audi and BMW in the predominantly German series.

The DTM and Super GT have been working to create combined rule set for several years, although the start date for the introduction of the joint regulations has been pushed back several times.

A Lexus LC500 and a Nismo Gt-R will complete demo laps for 15 minutes at full racing speeds in front of the spectators attending the finale of the DTM season on both Saturday and Sunday. A 30-minute test will also take place on the Friday.

“This is a great honour for us,” said DTM Chairman Gerhard Berger. “I am delighted that SUPER GT cars will be making an appearance at a DTM event for the first time.

“This is not only a special treat for our fans, but also a strong sign for the future of the DTM, and of how seriously the cooperation with the Japanese GTA organisation and the series’ three manufacturers is being taken.”

GTA (SUPER GT organising body) Chairman Masaaki Bandoh will lead the delegation from Japan, and he added that plans were already being made to send DTM cars to the finale of the Japanese series at the Twin Ring Motegi in early November.

“We are looking forward to seeing our cars in action in Hockenheim,” added Bandoh. “This is a proof of the close relationship between SUPER GT and the DTM. Both series feature the world leading manufacturers.

“It goes without saying that Japanese fans will by no means be denied the opportunity to experience the DTM cars. Plans are afoot for the DTM to send cars to the SUPER GT finale in Motegi.”

At present the new ‘Class One’ regulations, which are to be a unifying set of rules between the two series, are not planned to be brought in until 2019, having been pushed back from an original start date of 2017.

One of the key aspects of the regulations is that it should be possible to cover the costs of running in the respective series through sponsorship, allowing the introduction of works-assisted private teams in the future alongside full manufacturer entries.

“Work on the new regulations is in full swing,” added Berger. “We want to find the balance between technologically advanced cars, with which manufacturers are able to demonstrate their expertise, and racing cars that can be run without legions of engineers.”

The possibility for ‘alternative power sources’ is also being explored as part of the engine regulations for the new ‘Class One’ regulations, opening the door to potential hybrid and battery-powered systems.

https://www.touringcars.net/2017/09/lexus-nismo-cars-demo-dtm-season-finale

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Charles Leclerc is the F2 champion, expect to see him in a Sauber next year.

[God is Haaland]

3 hours ago, nudge said:

 

 

DTM grasping for straws, but a fusion with Super GT is indeed their last chance. Getting the bop right in just 5 months will be nearly impossible though.

[nudge]

1 minute ago, BartraPique1932 said:

DTM grasping for straws, but a fusion with Super GT is indeed their last chance. Getting the bop right in just 5 months will be nearly impossible though.

They have time until 2019 Season though, don't they? Still plenty of time to work it out properly. Watched the Japanese Super GT in Thailand today, looks fun and I think it could definitely work!

[God is Haaland]

Just now, nudge said:

They have time until 2019 Season though, don't they? Still plenty of time to work it out properly. Watched the Japanese Super GT in Thailand today, looks fun and I think it could definitely work!

Oh, you're right. Still a difficult task. GT cars are simply more competitive than modified touring cars.

[nudge]

23 minutes ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Oh, you're right. Still a difficult task. GT cars are simply more competitive than modified touring cars.

Yeah they will definitely have to implement certain changes, I think SuperGT engines currently have like 100 hp more than DTM ones? A substantial upgrade will be required to match that, but at least chassis and aerodynamic regulations are (more or less) the same. DTM should have implemented that 4 cylinder turbocharged engine as they intended instead of agreeing to delay that at Mercedes request who are now jumping ship anyway...

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Charles Leclerc is the F2 champion, expect to see him in a Sauber next year.

 

Hopefully alongside Wehrlein. Sauber should ditch Ericsson instead. 

[Tommy]

Watch it with sound

 

[nudge]

Porsche's #2 LMP1 car driven by Hartley and Bamber took the pole for the 6h of Fuji tomorrow. Porsche #1 and both Toyotas behind them, it should be a close and exciting race!