Switzerland World Cup Discussion

[Dave]

Previously they've been suited against strong opposition, and are arriving to the World Cup with a new found belief after there best qualifying campaign. They've gradually been getting better every competition. Expectations are now increasing with their depth (particularly in goal) and their new style taking effect.

How far do you think Switzerland can go in this World Cup?

[Mel81x+]

Till the very end.

[Mel81x+]

As part of my 'deep' understanding of the country that I have adopted I found this little nugget.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2018/jun/01/world-cup-history-worst-game-ukraine-switzerland

So that means anything going to a penalty is a no-no and apparently anything going beyond 90 minutes is a no-no as well. 

[Guest]

Group stage exit. Costa Rica are better than them.

[Mel81x+]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

Group stage exit. Costa Rica are better than them.

Shush, I am pretending to be a Swiss supporter here and your comments are blasphemous! No cheese for you tonight. 

On a more serious note, I am preparing myself for plenty of alcohol consumption because this team is getting battered in their first game considering their opponents. 

[nudge+]

Very tough group, and while Brasil are definitely the favourites to win the group, the other three nations are pretty similar and it can go either way, really. I think in the end the second place will be between Serbia and Switzerland... I'm supposed to cheer for Serbia on here haha and I think they will actually finish second in the group behind Brasil, but I really hope the Swiss make it through.

[Mel81x+]

Could we change the name of this post to "Switzerland - WC 2018 - Discussion" ? That way we can just accumulate any of the information here instead of spawning threads for it. Not like there will be a lot of action in here anyways.

Back on topic, big game today as Petkovic starts to solidify his squad for the WC. I don't think there's any remote chance that Switzerland comes away from a friendly against Spain with anything but a loss but it will be interesting to see what he does on the pitch.

[nudge+]

Starting lineup against Spain:

[Stan]

Whenever I've watched Seferovic for Switzerland he's been as useful as a chocolate teapot in the height of summer. 

Has anything even changed in that Switzerland side from the Euros? It all looks the same and I think they'll find it tough getting out of their group. May even finish last. 

[nudge+]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Whenever I've watched Seferovic for Switzerland he's been as useful as a chocolate teapot in the height of summer. 

Has anything even changed in that Switzerland side from the Euros? It all looks the same and I think they'll find it tough getting out of their group. May even finish last. 

Yeah, they really lack a proper striker upfront. That said, I think Petkovic will opt for Breel Embolo instead of Seferovic in the actual tournament. 

As for their chances, I'm not sure. They seem to have a good blend of youth and experience, and their defence has been functioning well so far, but their options in attack are very limited... As you said, Seferovic is useless, so is Drmic. Embolo is better, but still too young and too inexperienced. Will be very tough to make it out of the group for sure.

[Mel81x+]

What a goal for Spain. I don't see why the line wasn't cleared faster.

[Mel81x+]

I can't see where the goals are coming from for this team now. There is absolutely no quality in the final third and even if they don't concede goals easily you have to actually put some in your opponents net to win games. Big test in the group stages but I get the feeling this team has a win or two in them if they can sort themselves out with possession and distribution from good situations.

Having said all that, in their game against Spain today I think they squandered some really good chances to test De Gea better. 

 

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I can't see where the goals are coming from for this team now. There is absolutely no quality in the final third and even if they don't concede goals easily you have to actually put some in your opponents net to win games. Big test in the group stages but I get the feeling this team has a win or two in them if they can sort themselves out with possession and distribution from good situations.

Having said all that, in their game against Spain today I think they squandered some really good chances to test De Gea better. 

 

The Spanish commentator in the Soanish channel was watching the game on said that Switzerland got knocked out of a World Cup without conceding a single goal in the tournament. Don't know if that's true or not. 

[bozziovai]

18 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I can't see where the goals are coming from for this team now. There is absolutely no quality in the final third and even if they don't concede goals easily you have to actually put some in your opponents net to win games. Big test in the group stages but I get the feeling this team has a win or two in them if they can sort themselves out with possession and distribution from good situations.

Having said all that, in their game against Spain today I think they squandered some really good chances to test De Gea better. 

 

while you're watching their game this will playback inside your head -- TICK TOCK TICK TOCK TICK TOCK TICK TOCK      

[Berserker]

15 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

The Spanish commentator in the Soanish channel was watching the game on said that Switzerland got knocked out of a World Cup without conceding a single goal in the tournament. Don't know if that's true or not. 

Probably without conceding a goal in regular time, as we beat them on extra time.

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, Berserker said:

Probably without conceding a goal in regular time, as we beat them on extra time.

I think they were talking about another of the recent World Cups because they also mentioned that one where it took Argentina until extra-time to eliminate the Swiss.  The one they were talking about (I forgot who they said it was against) they went to penalties after finishing 0-0 and in the penalty shoot out the Swiss didn't score any of theirs! 

[Berserker]

Just now, SirBalon said:

I think they were talking about another of the recent World Cups because they also mentioned that one where it took Argentina until extra-time to eliminate the Swiss.  The one they were talking about (I forgot who they said it was against) they went to penalties after finishing 0-0 and in the penalty shoot out the Swiss didn't score any of theirs! 

Ah, 2006, that was against Ukraine.

[Mel81x+]

9 hours ago, bozziovai said:

while you're watching their game this will playback inside your head -- TICK TOCK TICK TOCK TICK TOCK TICK TOCK      

Considering the history they have in qualification I didn't think they'd take a big goal hammering from Spain because they didn't even press that hard till the goal went in. But, I was confused as to who was going to get a goal for the Swiss. In the end I think they gave a good account of themselves but this kind of play will not get you very far in a WC.

8 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I think they were talking about another of the recent World Cups because they also mentioned that one where it took Argentina until extra-time to eliminate the Swiss.  The one they were talking about (I forgot who they said it was against) they went to penalties after finishing 0-0 and in the penalty shoot out the Swiss didn't score any of theirs! 

Yep as Berserker mentioned it was WC 2006. They went to penalties and then fluffed it. I even posted the link above in this thread and was eluding to how it was terribly dull to watch and then it went even further by going to penalties.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2018/jun/01/world-cup-history-worst-game-ukraine-switzerland

[SirBalon]

22 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

Considering the history they have in qualification I didn't think they'd take a big goal hammering from Spain because they didn't even press that hard till the goal went in. But, I was confused as to who was going to get a goal for the Swiss. In the end I think they gave a good account of themselves but this kind of play will not get you very far in a WC.

Yep as Berserker mentioned it was WC 2006. They went to penalties and then fluffed it. I even posted the link above in this thread and was eluding to how it was terribly dull to watch and then it went even further by going to penalties.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2018/jun/01/world-cup-history-worst-game-ukraine-switzerland

When you base your game practically all of its entirety on having a watertight defence and being extremely disciplined due to inferiority against most of the teams... Then you base your game on luck in terms of winning games.  I don't think the Swiss can play any other way... If they'd have opened up and tried to freely press and attack Spain yesterday, they'd have lost pretty convincingly.  I'm saying that because of the way Spain are playing at the moment...  The tactics were correct by the Swiss although they do have a lack of quality up front and this conditions them.

[Mel81x+]

28 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

When you base your game practically all of its entirety on having a watertight defence and being extremely disciplined due to inferiority against most of the teams... Then you base your game on luck in terms of winning games.  I don't think the Swiss can play any other way... If they'd have opened up and tried to freely press and attack Spain yesterday, they'd have lost pretty convincingly.  I'm saying that because of the way Spain are playing at the moment...  The tactics were correct by the Swiss although they do have a lack of quality up front and this conditions them.

There is no doubt you're right about using luck to win games if you base everything on water-tight defensive systems. Having said that I don't think Switzerland are as limited as people make them out to be because of the fact that when they try and play it out their midfield is capable of moving the ball up faster than they did yesterday. All the chances yesterday came from the opposition moving way too far up the pitch for an attack and if they can use that to their benefit they may get some joy.

The missing key was someone who could hold the ball up and wait for attackers to join. Instead, they resorted to pressure-pushing balls into spaces they knew their attackers were never going to get to and that ultimately left them with an overloaded upper-attack quadrant and a very limited defensive-quadrant. Then all Spain had to do was move the ball faster back in and they created great opportunities for their attack to score goals. 

This isn't a terrible team because they showed they can play a brand of football that helps them get into attacking positions but its what they do after which is the worry. They have to learn to keep the ball better and wait for opportunities instead of trying to stuff every attacking chance into a "lottery" of getting a goal. 

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

There is no doubt you're right about using luck to win games if you base everything on water-tight defensive systems. Having said that I don't think Switzerland are as limited as people make them out to be because of the fact that when they try and play it out their midfield is capable of moving the ball up faster than they did yesterday. All the chances yesterday came from the opposition moving way too far up the pitch for an attack and if they can use that to their benefit they may get some joy.

The missing key was someone who could hold the ball up and wait for attackers to join. Instead, they resorted to pressure-pushing balls into spaces they knew their attackers were never going to get to and that ultimately left them with an overloaded upper-attack quadrant and a very limited defensive-quadrant. Then all Spain had to do was move the ball faster back in and they created great opportunities for their attack to score goals. 

This isn't a terrible team because they showed they can play a brand of football that helps them get into attacking positions but its what they do after which is the worry. They have to learn to keep the ball better and wait for opportunities instead of trying to stuff every attacking chance into a "lottery" of getting a goal. 

Without a doubt a team has to believe they can play against anyone so as to give them more of a chance of winning. But they knew that they were never going to outplay Spain in midfield no matter which midfield Spain put out there on the night, on top of that playing on Spanish soil.  There are very few teams that can challenge Spain in midfield in that sense (maybe only Germany and even they found it difficult recently) and end up resorting to playing balls (as you correctly call it) into spaces.

I didn't know much about the Swiss before last night and when I got into bed I watched a number of highlight (in italics because I later found out that highlights isn't exactly what Switzerland offer you) videos from various games over the past few years.  Defensivley they are excellent!  Infact their game makes Mourinho's football seem like modern innovative improvised football which we know is anything but! 

They really are the Scrooge of international football.  I suppose it's all about getting two goals early on against them somehow so that they forget all that.

[Mel81x+]

25 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Without a doubt a team has to believe they can play against anyone so as to give them more of a chance of winning. But they knew that they were never going to outplay Spain in midfield no matter which midfield Spain put out there on the night, on top of that playing on Spanish soil.  There are very few teams that can challenge Spain in midfield in that sense (maybe only Germany and even they found it difficult recently) and end up resorting to playing balls (as you correctly call it) into spaces.

I didn't know much about the Swiss before last night and when I go into bed I watched a number of highlight (in italics because I later found out that highlights isn't exactly what Switzerland offer you) videos from various games over the past few years.  Defensivley they are excellent!  Infact their game makes Mourinho's football seem like modern innovative improvised football which we know is anything but! 

They really are the Scrooge of international football.  I suppose it's all about getting two goals early on against them somehow so that they forget all that.

I am pretty much in the same boat as you when it comes to understanding how the Swiss national team goes about their football business but I can say that if they want to beat teams like Spain they really have to learn to bypass the midfield. To do that, however, they need good outlets which I think they have in Shaqiri and Ricardo. I thought Ricardo was very good  for them yesterday and if he can get more space to operate, which he coincidentally did at times, then they can get a goal or two if necessary. The problem is that their midfield is vastly inferior to most teams in the tournament because the minute it gets pressured they lose complete positional awareness and give away the ball quite cheaply which can hurt them.

And you're right about getting early goals against them because if you do then it forces them to play a more open game and try to get goals leaving them open for more attacks. One thing I hate about watching on TV is the fact that you dont get to see the entire pitch. At times you were left wondering how Schar was being so adventurous with his defensive duties only to realize that out of shot Akanji has swapped out to a pseudo-sweeper role to accommodate for the change.

[nudge+]

Final squad:

So no surprises there, with Gregor Kobel, Silvan Widmer and Edimilson Fernandes missing out.

[Stan]

I think there's only about 7 or 8 changes from the 2014 World Cup Squad.

Now I'm not sure how other nations line-up in terms of number of changes from Brazil 2014 tournament but that doesn't strike me as a significant number for Switzerland. The most noticeable being Benaglio and Inler, perhaps? Anyone who's come in doesn't strike me as being able to make a massive difference to the team this time around. 

[nudge+]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

I think there's only about 7 or 8 changes from the 2014 World Cup Squad.

Now I'm not sure how other nations line-up in terms of number of changes from Brazil 2014 tournament but that doesn't strike me as a significant number for Switzerland. The most noticeable being Benaglio and Inler, perhaps? Anyone who's come in doesn't strike me as being able to make a massive difference to the team this time around. 

Akanji, Elvedi, Moubandje, Freuler, Zakaria, Zuber and Embolo, so  yes, 7 changes in total. There should be more though, I don't know why Djourou, Seferovic, Dzemaili, Fernandes or Behrami are still in the squad... I rate Elvedi, Zakaria and Embolo quite highly, but it's a bit too early for them to make a big impact, they are still challenging for a place in the starting XI. This must surely be the last tournament for most of the squad, they definitely need an overhaul and a change of generations afterwards.

This is probably their best current XI, in my opinion:

-----------------------------Sommer
Lichtsteiner-------Schär---------Akanji--------Rodriguez
-----------------------Xhaka------Zakaria
-------Embolo-------------Shaqiri------------Zuber
---------------------------Gavranovic