Why do Labour hate the Jews?

[6666]

All of this seems like overblown bullshit in my opinion.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

About 12-18 months ago I'd have got involved in this debate trying to defend Corbyn but I really just can't be arsed.

Politics in this country for me has to be at an all time low. Both parties are just as bad as each other that all they do is try and smear the opposition. I follow Labour or Jeremy Corbyn on Facebook, every day it's just "today I asked the prime minister why the Conservative party is ruining the NHS". Then the Tory rags are shamelessly feeding off this anti Semite saga on the front page every day, which to be fair is a good distraction of what a botch they're making of the Brexit negotiations, not that Labour would be doing any better.

It's just tiresome. When I first moved back to the Isle of Man I was a bit miffed that I couldn't vote in the UK anymore on stuff that directly affects me but now I'm not at all arsed. The fact that the two groups of people who compete to run the country have ended up with Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn as their leaders just goes to show the lack of leadership and organisational skills we have in Great Britain these days. Stuff like this Jewdas thing is like being on the titanic while it's sinking and arguing over whether you should eat your melon with a spoon or a fork.

Both parties would rather spend time shitting on one another than actually have any meaningful policies to put forward. It's just shockingly incompetent governance.

[Danny]

It's difficult to analyse for me due to living on the other side of the world, never really understood Corbyn properly. I like a lot of what he says but then you hear about IRA links etc and you don't know where he sits with that.

The flip side is that British newspapers for example are mainly right wing, pro Brexit, anti Corbyn machines that cry "traitor" and "failing the people" whenever someone opposes those views so it's hard to take his full criticisms seriously when they come from sources like those (also hard to take the opposition of those seriously when that opposition is generally the Independent). 

Corbyn on banks, businesses, social care, NHS, etc I can get behind, it's what the country needs for me. More socialism, less division, less exploitation of benefits/immigrants by politicians in power. Oddly I seem to agree a bit with @Fairy In Bootsin that hes the type to go with you've gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet and that's what puts me off.

I think he's what Labour wanted from Milliband socially and more but not in terms of diplomacy. Bring back Milliband! Only in politics to do you not vote for someone because they've got a weird voice and face.

[Fairy In Boots]

4 hours ago, Danny said:

It's difficult to analyse for me due to living on the other side of the world, never really understood Corbyn properly. I like a lot of what he says but then you hear about IRA links etc and you don't know where he sits with that.

The flip side is that British newspapers for example are mainly right wing, pro Brexit, anti Corbyn machines that cry "traitor" and "failing the people" whenever someone opposes those views so it's hard to take his full criticisms seriously when they come from sources like those (also hard to take the opposition of those seriously when that opposition is generally the Independent). 

Corbyn on banks, businesses, social care, NHS, etc I can get behind, it's what the country needs for me. More socialism, less division, less exploitation of benefits/immigrants by politicians in power. Oddly I seem to agree a bit with @Fairy In Bootsin that hes the type to go with you've gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet and that's what puts me off.

I think he's what Labour wanted from Milliband socially and more but not in terms of diplomacy. Bring back Milliband! Only in politics to do you not vote for someone because they've got a weird voice and face.

More socialism  

Let me guess all the forms of socialism that have ruined multiple countries that have adopted them “weren’t real socialism” 

There’s a book I’d like to recommend you try. 

Why Socialism Works https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1521531218/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ycgXAbNEJ0025

 

 

[Danny]

1 minute ago, Fairy In Boots said:

More socialism  

Let me guess all the forms of socialism that have ruined multiple countries that have adopted them “weren’t real socialism” 

There’s a book I’d like to recommend you try. 

Why Socialism Works https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1521531218/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ycgXAbNEJ0025

 

 

Whether it's socialism, liberalism, leftism...ismism...whatever word you want to use. I just want to see more NHS funding, more government funding in the local communities where it's severely lacking (i.e. council estates), more mental health funding because currently our system is dire (though made to work by fantastic people), big businesses and banks held to account and taxed more so that ordinary working people don't have to bare the brunt of a government either reaping the rewards from said big businesses/bank or just too afraid to stop rimming them.

I'm not anti capitalism and understand the need for competition within business, but currently our use of capitalism means that for it to work there need to be people worse off in this country or elsewhere and I'd like to see politicians actively challenge that and bring around more balance.

[6666]

A working society is about getting the balance between capitalism and socialism right. Anyone that says it should be all one way needs a slap across the face. Businesses should be allowed to be competitive and capitalist in their motivatiom but the government's responsibility is to society and to use tax money for the benefit of people within that society.

The politics here seems to be getting to a hilarious, American level where the right wing are afraid of words such as "socialism" and "communism" so they can pretend that there's no place for it in any capacity which is insane.

[6666]

10 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Why are you discussing politics when the Champions League is on ?

Capitalist bastardisation of football.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, 6666 said:

A working society is about getting the balance between capitalism and socialism right. Anyone that says it should be all one way needs a slap across the face. Businesses should be allowed to be competitive and capitalist in their motivatiom but the government's responsibility is to society and to use tax money for the benefit of people within that society.

The politics here seems to be getting to a hilarious, American level where the right wing are afraid of words such as "socialism" and "communism" so they can pretend that there's no place for it in any capacity which is insane.

This is how you've got so many people in the American right that are wholly against useful and practical social programs. Like the opposition to having a health program mirroring NHS, or even the significantly inferior option of having the government subsidise insurance policies (which is how it currently is in the US - which I think is a shit idea and provides most of the benefit to health insurance providers, rather than people who need healthcare). There's plenty of evidence that shows having a state run health program is a good thing in a capitalist society; a healthy workforce is infinitely better than an unhealthy workforce. Furthermore in the US many employers pay for health insurance for their employees in expensive policies - this wouldn't be something companies would need to offer to (most) people in the US if they had a US variation of NHS.

But there's a lot of shite in America where you've got old people who think that the government needs to keep it's meddling hands out of Medicare (state provided insurance for old people) and social security (which... just read the name). So they don't really understand what they're railing against, they've just got the buzzwords of the stuff they know is "bad" and then there's the experiences of other social services they know are good (because they use them).

The dumbing down of political discourse is pretty worrying because if you've got people that don't recognise the benefits of both socialist and capitalism in modern Western society, who are trained to bark when they hear the phrases "socialism" and "communism" you can get plenty of people willing to vote against things that benefit them and the entire country purely based on a willful misunderstanding of core concepts. Can lead to the UK's social services being eroded in the form of just less services provided, or some govt subsidised privitisation that benefits only a very few and is shit for many other people.

[RandoEFC+]

I still think it's a massively underrated issue that kids at least in the UK get next to no political education. Young adults are leaving schools up and down the country at the age of 16 having no idea (besides what they get from their opinions of parents who are likely to be equally uneducated) what Labour and Conservative stand for, what a public or private sector is, what benefits are actually for, how taxes work and what government spending is.

Worst of all they have no concept of questioning the things they see on the news or on the front of newspapers which is extremely worrying given that everything they're exposed to is filtered according to which political party that particular media outlet sympathises with. 

How we expect to have an electorate capable of voting for what's best for themselves and the country at large under these circumstances I don't know. However I'm sure that both major political parties are pretty happy with the situation as it means they can get away with trying to seem less incompetent than the opposition with the aforementioned smear tactics and trying to turn it into a popularity contest.

No idea what it's like in the US and elsewhere and I'm sure I've said this more than once before on here but that's my personal perspective from my time spent working in schools.

[Dr. Gonzo]

53 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I still think it's a massively underrated issue that kids at least in the UK get next to no political education. Young adults are leaving schools up and down the country at the age of 16 having no idea (besides what they get from their opinions of parents who are likely to be equally uneducated) what Labour and Conservative stand for, what a public or private sector is, what benefits are actually for, how taxes work and what government spending is.

Worst of all they have no concept of questioning the things they see on the news or on the front of newspapers which is extremely worrying given that everything they're exposed to is filtered according to which political party that particular media outlet sympathises with. 

How we expect to have an electorate capable of voting for what's best for themselves and the country at large under these circumstances I don't know. However I'm sure that both major political parties are pretty happy with the situation as it means they can get away with trying to seem less incompetent than the opposition with the aforementioned smear tactics and trying to turn it into a popularity contest.

No idea what it's like in the US and elsewhere and I'm sure I've said this more than once before on here but that's my personal perspective from my time spent working in schools.

In my experience, it's pretty much the same in the US.

With UK politics, I'm sure the politicians are delighted at the unprepared and uneducated electorate. Look at the state of British governance - it's appalling. And it's because there's a wealth of incompetent politicians making up all of the parties. But it's awful for the country. And with shite politicians, you get shite policies that lead to a bigger mess for people to try to clean up in the following decades.

So I'm not confident anything will get better any time soon. 

[Honey Honey]

Without a hint of a irony this discussion is full of clichés, soundbites and dramatisations. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Without a hint of a irony this discussion is full of clichés, soundbites and dramatisations. 

Clichés can still be true. We don't have competent governance in this country and we haven't for a very long time.

[Honey Honey]

On 05/04/2018 at 18:08, Dr. Gonzo said:

Clichés can still be true. We don't have competent governance in this country and we haven't for a very long time.

In most political cases cliches circumvent complexity and ambiguity rather than deliver any proven or meaningful truth. It's a shortcut to a prescripted ending sometimes written by desire, bias or just as a regurgitation of the people we trust.

For example your second sentence can't actually be true or false in a rational sense. Government is so vast and complex there is no general all encompassing incompentence. Comparing governments is a wholy inaccurate thing to do given the lack of equality of circumstance the seperately measured governments operate(d) under.