North Korea

[Panflute]

12 hours ago, bozziovai said:

we have american friends here, i'm sorry but let me just say that the US is just full of BS with this North Korea situation.    Here is North Korea brandishing their nuclear weapons, they've even fired an empty missile towards japan and yet the US has only stood and watch and do some Eminem Rap ( just words ).   And comparing it to IRAQ, they've invaded that country with the rumor of WEapons Of Mass Destruction and yet, they didn't even found one.

 

is the US policy like this ??  ------   If we don't gain anything, let's just watch and If we gain something, let's invade even if it's wrong. ---

The geopolitical interests in North Korea are far less great than they were in Iraq/The Middle East. This and personal/industrial interests from those in power are the sole factors in determining whether an invasion will take place.

[Danny]

11 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Good luck and RIP to anyone who wants to attack North Korea's 1,000,000 strong army via one front.

 

There army is apparently malnourished and has been encouraged to steal from cornfields in preparation for war...

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

There army is apparently malnourished and has been encouraged to steal from cornfields in preparation for war...

That won't matter much if it's just 1 entry point though. I think the death toll would be a lot higher than Iraq where the war was over in 1 month because the army was divided up and cut off from one another through multiple invasions. Iraq was a sitting duck because of its large land mass.

[Panflute]

The idea that North Korea can be neutralized with a "limited strike" is retarded. It's shocking how prevalent it is. Any military action against the DPRK would immediately be both huge in scope and highly unpredictable. The major powers can't sell the first and instinctively hate the second. Outside that, don't expect China and Russia to act against their own interests by allowing the US to plunge the entire region into chaos.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:05 PM, Danny said:

There army is apparently malnourished and has been encouraged to steal from cornfields in preparation for war...

They've still got a huge amount of artillery pointed at Seoul (and could potentially drop a nuke on them, and other countries in the region). The second North Korea senses they're going to be attacked, they'll pull the trigger on the gun they've got pointed at their neighbor's head. The entire idea behind them getting nukes is not so they can be a nuisance to the whole world - it's for self-preservation. There is much less worry of regime change if they can launch nukes when they feel regime change is coming.

If their shield against regime change doesn't protect them, they've got no reason to have any restraint whatsoever. Self-preservation of their regime and demanding foreign aid (so those with power don't starve like the unwashed masses) are the M.O. for North Korean foreign policy.

The blame for this situation lies solely with China and Russia. Two countries that have benefitted from paying the North Korean government for "workers" (i.e., slaves). China shoulders most of the blame for this after the fall of the USSR by being the main force propping up this shitty regime. So rather than sending in Team America: World Police, led by a child who can't help himself in escalating the tensions, I think China and Russia out of moral obligation, should be the ones to clean this mess up. But they absolutely will not - and if they act in any way, it won't be out of moral obligation to clean up their mess, but rather to prevent nuclear warfare in the region.

[RandoEFC+]

It's amazing how little shit Putin gets for what impact he and his country have on global politics. All the hate Trump (rightfully) gets is shocking compared to how little people talk about Russia invading the Crimea, fiddling with the US elections and propping up North Korea and that's just recent history.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's amazing how little shit Putin gets for what impact he and his country have on global politics. All the hate Trump (rightfully) gets is shocking compared to how little people talk about Russia invading the Crimea, fiddling with the US elections and propping up North Korea and that's just recent history.

I have no idea how the invasions of Crimea and Georgia don't get brought up more when talking about how shitty Russia and Putin are. I think it's a bit harsh to pin the propping of North Korea on Russia when we're so far removed from the Cold War - but they have engaged in much better foreign relations with them than most countries... and have benefitted from being able to rent slaves.

I wonder if the best solution for dealing with North Korea is to cut off all foreign aid. The obviously shitty thing about that is... a lot of people will starve to death. But North Korea making threats to get foreign aid is how North Korea has operated since the end of hostilities with the Korean War. But because self-preservation is their biggest motivating factor... would they just lash out if we cut them off? Probably...

[Panflute]

6 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

It's amazing how little shit Putin gets for what impact he and his country have on global politics. All the hate Trump (rightfully) gets is shocking compared to how little people talk about Russia invading the Crimea, fiddling with the US elections and propping up North Korea and that's just recent history.

Unlike most countries' leaders, Putin has an inclination to defend the interests of his own nation. Both Georgia and Crimea were fully justified conflicts where it was Western interference that forced his hand.

Truly, he is the greatest world leader. There were others, but they either died or were killed by the Americans and their lap dogs.

[Honey Honey]

Boring anti-American shite as per.

Putin helps arm and finance criminal gangs and the lowest of the low in border territories, unsurprisingly violence ensues. When a 'merican government does that they are the evil of all evil's.

 

[Panflute]

The difference is that Putin exercises his power primarily within his own sphere of influence and doesn't attempt to dominate the entire world militarily and/or culturally.

I have nothing more to say to people like you because I at least perceive the different degrees in power in question here while you scurry much closer to an "it's okay if the West does it" mentality than you are prepared to see. Even if you don't like Putin, if you think contemporary Russia is a more nefarious influence in world politics than the US you are genuinely deluded.

[Honey Honey]

My post was absolutely not a quantification contest. You cannot quantify evil. A crime is a crime. A flaw a flaw. A mistake a mistake. A fool a fool. You can't paper over it by tallying it up. The glorification and justification of Putin's Russia was in my opinion transferred nationalism in the Orwell sense. Rather than transcending nationalism, the pure bias nonsense of a nationalist thinking pattern is transferred from one's own nation onto another nation. Their crimes are papered over rather than one's own, their leaders are glorious rather than one's own, they are righteous rather than one's own. Neither are. That you are obsessed with anti-American rhetoric just made it easier to draw an example of the inconsistency. 

[Panflute]

Putin's reactions are necessary because of American/NATO actions. It is easy to claim moral highground but apathy towards the fact that nearly all geopolitical issues are a direct result of American/NATO/Israeli meddling causes you to ignore the root of the problem. Call it an obsession, I call it common sense.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Invading a sovereign nation because they might join NATO is justified? Lol.

It's easy to claim moral high ground to a regime demanding protection money from it's oligarchs like a mob boss, that murders journalists and political opponents, invades former Soviet territories off flimsy reasoning that somehow gets them a pass through the power of whataboutism, and is trying to become a major power again despite not having the economy to be one by sowing chaos in the west.

Great leader? Nah. Great authoritarian. But a shitty man who is bad for Russia and for the world.

[Panflute]

Yes, whatever you say boss. Our worldviews are too different to make discussion anything other than a giant waste of time so you can take this one as you please.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Oh and the idea that Russia only meddles within it's "sphere of influence" is also total bullshit https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

Plus they're in the UNSC.

This isn't so much about world views that it is about the world.

So back on topic, North Korea has nukes. Kim Jong Un is poking a US headed by a man desperate to show he's strong. What are the adults in the room (China, Russia, Japan, and South Korea) going to do to stop the children from being idiots?

[Honey Honey]

Trying to remove any responsibility by blaming others for your own actions is what children do when being faced by mummy's final rule and spanking.

 

[bozziovai]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Oh and the idea that Russia only meddles within it's "sphere of influence" is also total bullshit https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

Plus they're in the UNSC.

This isn't so much about world views that it is about the world.

So back on topic, North Korea has nukes. Kim Jong Un is poking a US headed by a man desperate to show he's strong. What are the adults in the room (China, Russia, Japan, and South Korea) going to do to stop the children from being idiots?

is this the worst or most chaotic era that we had since world war 2 ??

here in the middle east there's war everywhere - saudi vs yemen .. the problem in Syria and Iraq.   the problem between saudi and Iran

in europe - we're seeing terrorist attacks like news from paparazzi, they're everywhere.    this week we're seeing a stabbing, the following week we're hearing people getting crushed by cars.

in my country the philippines and the south east asia region, we are trying to contain a growing threat of ISIS wanting to make a ground base of operations.

and now, this pig facker of a leader Kim Jong is "playing" with his toys.

what have the world gone to .............  sometimes i wish that russia and america and china will kill us all, launch all their nukes and erase humanity.

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

is this the worst or most chaotic era that we had since world war 2 ??

here in the middle east there's war everywhere - saudi vs yemen .. the problem in Syria and Iraq.   the problem between saudi and Iran

in europe - we're seeing terrorist attacks like news from paparazzi, they're everywhere.    this week we're seeing a stabbing, the following week we're hearing people getting crushed by cars.

in my country the philippines and the south east asia region, we are trying to contain a growing threat of ISIS wanting to make a ground base of operations.

and now, this pig facker of a leader Kim Jong is "playing" with his toys.

what have the world gone to .............  sometimes i wish that russia and america and china will kill us all, launch all their nukes and erase humanity.

I think the world is gearing up for an ugly conflict. Some people have said that the world is sort of looking like things did before World War I - where large land armies were supposed to be a deterrent from war because everybody knew about the carnage of war and nobody would want to see a war between two giant armies and the death that would cause. There's the constant turmoil in the Middle East resembling the constant turmoil in the Balkans. It's arguably worse because it's spread to Europe and seemingly happening all the fucking time. There's tensions between world powers basically all over the globe.

I think nuclear war could potentially come soon. Like with World War I, people forgot about the death and destruction of war as they were more removed from large scale conflict. Nuclear weapons are the new deterrent now with mutually assured destruction. After all... why would we want to see the human race end itself?

But then, we're pretty far removed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We've got a president of the United States asking advisors why nukes can't be used, who said he wants to see nuclear proliferation worldwide (and sees no problems with countries like Saudi Arabia getting a nuke) and a fat lunatic in North Korea trying to up the ante with his country's traditional threaten war for aid with his newfound nuclear weapons. Judging by just general percentages in politics right now, I'd venture to guess there's 25-30% of the world who think a world wide nuclear war would be a good thing for some (totally unknown to me) reason.

The world has gone to shit.

[Panflute]

33 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Trying to remove any responsibility by blaming others for your own actions is what children do when being faced by mummy's final rule and spanking.

 

Pointing out cause and effect has little to do with whatever fetish you're into.

[Honey Honey]

Just now, Panflute said:

Pointing out cause and effect has little to do with whatever fetish you're into.

It has little to do with the debate as well. Rando raised Putin on the basis of accountability for his actions, your cause and effect rhetoric comes across as whitewashing accountability, denying it's legitimacy. When Dr. Gonzo tried to press you on the insinuated equation that all reactions were justifiable you flunked out on him.

[Panflute]

27 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

It has little to do with the debate as well. Rando raised Putin on the basis of accountability for his actions, your cause and effect rhetoric comes across as whitewashing accountability, denying it's legitimacy. When Dr. Gonzo tried to press you on the insinuated equation that all reactions were justifiable you flunked out on him.

I am talking about his geopolitical decisions, which I support fully. Once the "debate" gets broadened to "he kills journalists!" we set ourselves up for a night-long debate in which I have no interest.

[Honey Honey]

As was Gonzo, not every point he made was broadening it.

Some of Putin's decisions are heinously bad judgement and criminally suspect. Escalating ethnic tensions through the financing and arming of the lowest type of people. One of which has started to commit genocide.

[bozziovai]

12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think the world is gearing up for an ugly conflict. Some people have said that the world is sort of looking like things did before World War I - where large land armies were supposed to be a deterrent from war because everybody knew about the carnage of war and nobody would want to see a war between two giant armies and the death that would cause. There's the constant turmoil in the Middle East resembling the constant turmoil in the Balkans. It's arguably worse because it's spread to Europe and seemingly happening all the fucking time. There's tensions between world powers basically all over the globe.

I think nuclear war could potentially come soon. Like with World War I, people forgot about the death and destruction of war as they were more removed from large scale conflict. Nuclear weapons are the new deterrent now with mutually assured destruction. After all... why would we want to see the human race end itself?

But then, we're pretty far removed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We've got a president of the United States asking advisors why nukes can't be used, who said he wants to see nuclear proliferation worldwide (and sees no problems with countries like Saudi Arabia getting a nuke) and a fat lunatic in North Korea trying to up the ante with his country's traditional threaten war for aid with his newfound nuclear weapons. Judging by just general percentages in politics right now, I'd venture to guess there's 25-30% of the world who think a world wide nuclear war would be a good thing for some (totally unknown to me) reason.

The world has gone to shit.

i don't know, this is just me, but i'm thinking with the advent of the internet and facebook and social media, crime had gone up.    it seems like these bastards are attention-hogs that they found a way to promote or display their heinous acts for the whole world to see.   coz i remember during the 90s that terrorist attacks are very less.    Maybe in a year we could only see 3 or 4.   But now, we're seeing videos from ISIS on different ways they kill people.    And with this fat bastard Kim, firing his missiles whenever he likes and doing those missile test of his and posting it on the internet. 

 

Coz c'mon, North Korea has closed it's doors from the outside world and yet here he is letting the world see what's inside of North Korea.   He's basking now in the glory that the whole world is watching him.....  facking stupid bastard.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

21 hours ago, Panflute said:

I am talking about his geopolitical decisions, which I support fully. Once the "debate" gets broadened to "he kills journalists!" we set ourselves up for a night-long debate in which I have no interest.

First you said he's the greatest world leaders. Then when I pointed out shitty things he's done for his nation and abroad, you no longer care about how he governs his own country? The greatest world leaders would be wise in foreign policy and not need to govern like a despot.

Russia is just as guilty as the US in a lot of respects. It's much smaller scale though because they haven't been a super power for decades.

[bozziovai]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

First you said he's the greatest world leaders. Then when I pointed out shitty things he's done for his nation and abroad, you no longer care about how he governs his own country? The greatest world leaders would be wise in foreign policy and not need to govern like a despot.

Russia is just as guilty as the US in a lot of respects. It's much smaller scale though because they haven't been a super power for decades.

exactly.    Both Russia and the US are playing games with us.     Just like this war here in the mid-east,  at first it we all thought that it was against the islamic state but it surfaced that it was only a pseudo-war between the US and Russia.       Both are hypocrites, always saying that they need to end war as it is, but in the shadows, they're doing their ugly business.

just like in afghanistan ... really now, if not for the best climate for opium plantation, the US would have straight up took their arses out of that country.    coz what's in afghanistan that the US needs to wage war for ???