Tottenham 0-1 Man Utd - Sunday 13th January, 2019

[Stan]

I'm sure other French players played in the World Cup final?! I may be mistaken but thought it was more than just a midfielder who helped them win  

[Cicero]

You are essentially bragging that Pogba performed well against a Croatia side that coming into the final, finished each of their knockout fixtures in extra time.

Both Modric and Rakitic came into the final playing 360 minutes of football in the space of a week. Going to penalties twice. Also conveniently fail to mention that man for man, France were by far and away superior than any other team. 

CONTEXT

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

20 minutes ago, Stan said:

I'm sure other French players played in the World Cup final?! I may be mistaken but thought it was more than just a midfielder who helped them win  

You'd be mistaking football for a team sport rather than just individual players that fanboys worship because... wait you're not mistaking anything, you're grounded in reality.

[Rick]

Lloris won the Cup, while Spain went out. Does that mean Lloris is a better keeper than DeGea? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, José said:

Fuck the World Cup. What about his performances with vecchia signora? He has been successful throughout his career even during man utd’s post-SAF years. Very little success but without him, it could of been like Barcelona 2000-03 

Like I said last year when he was struggling, and also when he first joined, anyone who's watched him play at Juventus knows that he's a very good player. And like you said, he's proven it outside of Juve with France at the World Cup.

And both of those sides, he was a key midfielder in some star studded midfields that were set up in a way to showcase his abilities. And while Mourinho stifled his creativity to make him work hard, he's also shown he'll work hard in systems that get the best out of him.

We are seeing a better Pogba because he's not working for a manager that's an utter coward and couldn't stand his players expressing themselves if it might mean they defense might be left a bit exposed. And he's working hard in the midfield.

And he's doing it for a manager with minimal experience, and that experience indicates he shouldn't really be able to get it done at United despite him getting it done. I think to me this indicates how big of a mistake appointing Mourinho was - he was never the man for a long term rebuild at United, it was insane to think he was - his track record is successful in taking very good sides across the finish line - not building sides into very good sides. And it was a bigger mistake to sign him to a longer term deal.

And really it all stems to poor long term planning at the club, even arguably before Ferguson left - because Pogba was allowed to move on as a free transfer under Ferguson right? Despite being very highly rated, he wasn't made contract offers or given the chance to prove himself in the first team at a club until after he'd left the club. And then United wanted him back and had to pay an insane amount.

Couple that with the ridiculous decisions they've made as far as long term planning in a post-Ferguson world, and I think it makes the decision makers at United look like they've got no foresight. Solskjaer's winning form looks like they may have accidentally stumbled into something good going forward, but if United want long term sustained success like they used to have and not lose their soul like the oil clubs, long term planning is needed. And despite his possible accidental find in Solskjaer and United turning the results around, I think Woodward has demonstrated that he doesn't even know his own long term vision for the club and he really shouldn't be the man United have running things going forward.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Cicero said:

You are essentially bragging that Pogba performed well against a Croatia side that coming into the final, finished each of their knockout fixtures in extra time.

Both Modric and Rakitic came into the final playing 360 minutes of football in the space of a week. Going to penalties twice. Also conveniently fail to mention that man for man, France were by far and away superior than any other team. 

CONTEXT

 

Croatia were arguably the second worst side they faced in the tournament too behind Australia.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

Croatia were arguably the second worst side they faced in the tournament too behind Australia.

You could make that argument but I don't think that's a winning argument 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You could make that argument but I don't think that's a winning argument 

It's true though. You could ARGUABLY (key word) say they are the second worst.

They are no better than Belgium

They are not better than Uruguay

You could make arguements about Denmark, Peru and Argentina though. Only one to me who I think there's not much of a debate is Australia.

[LFCMike]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

You could make arguements about Denmark, Peru and Argentina though. Only one to me who I think there's not much of a debate is Australia.

No you couldn't

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Blue said:

It's true though. You could ARGUABLY (key word) say they are the second worst.

They are no better than Belgium

They are not better than Brazil.

You could make arguements about Denmark, Peru and Argentina though. Only one to me who I think there's not much of a debate is Australia.

It's hard to say, because it's a cup competition and not a league competition. So it's hard to judge how good each team was overall, because they don't all play the same sides.

But yeah, you can obviously argue any position... even one that won't win an argument. I doubt you're going convince many people that Croatia in this world cup weren't better than: Belgium (who underperformed), Brazil (also underperformed), Argentina (again... underperformed), or Denmark and Peru (did about as much as anyone expected them to do in the world cup - not much). You could even argue that Croatia was worse than Australia if you wanted to. I wouldn't make that argument.

Croatia put in some of the best midfield performances in this world cup and overperformed compared to where many felt they'd have ended up. I think a lot of people would think they're the second best side in that World Cup just because they made it to the final.

A better argument is that Croatia's not as strong as some of those other sides on paper. But in the words of the my manager character in FIFA 19 that's got Tranmere on the cusp of the premier league, "good job we're not playing on paper then."

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's hard to say, because it's a cup competition and not a league competition. So it's hard to judge how good each team was overall, because they don't all play the same sides.

But yeah, you can obviously argue any position... even one that won't win an argument. I doubt you're going convince many people that Croatia in this world cup weren't better than: Belgium (who underperformed), Brazil (also underperformed), Argentina (again... underperformed), or Denmark and Peru (did about as much as anyone expected them to do in the world cup - not much). You could even argue that Croatia was worse than Australia if you wanted to. I wouldn't make that argument.

Croatia put in some of the best midfield performances in this world cup and overperformed compared to where many felt they'd have ended up. I think a lot of people would think they're the second best side in that World Cup just because they made it to the final.

A better argument is that Croatia's not as strong as some of those other sides on paper. But in the words of the my manager character in FIFA 19 that's got Tranmere on the cusp of the premier league, "good job we're not playing on paper then."

I think you missed my point but it's my own fault for not clarifying well enough.

What I'm trying to say is that using Pogba winning a WC final by playing well is not a strong argument. For many reasons but I'm getting at the fact that Croatia isn't a super team like Belgium or Brazil. I know the popular answer is to withstand final pressure but France played 2 opponents that are far above (Uruguay and Belgium).

Im also not looking at on paper. Croatia have a top team in my opinion but they don't translate that on the pitch. They were garbage and their final run, as historic as it was, it was flukey.

But again im getting at the fact that Pogba played against much stronger opposition and even in the final there were better players for France. And I think Pogba is tremendous.

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But yeah, you can obviously argue any position... even one that won't win an argument. I doubt you're going convince many people that Croatia in this world cup weren't better than: Belgium (who underperformed), Brazil (also underperformed), Argentina (again... underperformed), or Denmark and Peru (did about as much as anyone expected them to do in the world cup - not much). You could even argue that Croatia was worse than Australia if you wanted to. I wouldn't make that argument.

Also sorry to take it any further but this is just plain wrong.

Brazil did underperform but I bet you my house that if you put the 2 against each other in the tournament and Brazil would have beat them comfortably, just like France did in the final.

Belgium did not underperform. They did exactly as they should have done. Were you expecting them to win the WC?

Argentina did not underperform. I actually would argue they overperformed as they were a side I would argue as worse than Croatia in the last tournament.

If the finalist was Germany or England performing like Croatia did, people would have said it was a fluke run. In fact the latter isn't even safe from that. I get that is nice that a new team reached the final, especially with story and how likeable they were, but they were not very good at all. Worst finalists for me since Germany of 2002. I was in awe of them reaching the final but I don't let that blur my vision.

[Rick]

Hopefully Ederson gets caught out big time this season with his bullshit. There's playing out from the back (when Allison even gets near the edge of his box my heart jumps) and then there's that pisstake last night.cant stand the sight of him, thinks he's better than he is.

[Kyletoonfan]

I'm amazed Spurs fans in here instead of the Pogba red which he should have got what about the pen at 0-0 It wasn't just a slight tug of the shirt it was blatant from Phil Jones from the corner. Clear penalty which they were robbed of big moment at 0-0 to.