James Rodríguez Completes Move to Everton

[Mpache]

Just to end the myth that he's not been good since the World Cup...

He's averaged a goal and an assist every 90 minutes of football he's played. I can't quote the tweet again cos my Twitter is working like crap this morning but he wasn't just a World Cup wonder. His downfall has been his attitude and discipline. He falls out a lot with his teams. He's also arrogant.

[Mpache]

Here is the tweet.

 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Mpache said:

Here is the tweet.

 

How many of those goals and assists are worthwhile? Who cares about his stats if his goals come at the end of a 5-0 win against relegation teams

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

How many of those goals and assists are worthwhile? Who cares about his stats if his goals come at the end of a 5-0 win against relegation teams

Not sure how anyone is supposed to answer that, but he was pretty unreal for Real Madrid in 2014-15 and Bayern in 2017-18. Let's not even talk about his times at Porto, Banfield and Monaco which were great.

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Not sure how anyone is supposed to answer that, but he was pretty unreal for Real Madrid in 2014-15 and Bayern in 2017-18. Let's not even talk about his times at Porto, Banfield and Monaco which were great.

Except that was years ago, so it doesn’t even matter. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Spike said:

Except that was years ago, so it doesn’t even matter. 

Says the guy who hypes up David Luiz for his 2015 

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Says the guy who hypes up David Luiz for his 2015 

What

[RandoEFC+]

41 minutes ago, Spike said:

How many of those goals and assists are worthwhile? Who cares about his stats if his goals come at the end of a 5-0 win against relegation teams

Such a nonsense argument. Could say the same about any player's numbers.

Anyone writing this transfer off right now obviously didn't notice that Everton just finished 12th, our top scorer from midfield last season was Bernard with 3 goals and our top assisting midfielder was Sigurdsson with 3 assists.

I know he's been inconsistent and it's not nailed on that he's even going to be a success for us but come on, if this was Wolves or Leicester they'd be getting rimmed for this signing.

That said, it is us so he'll either be shite, or he'll be good for 2-3 months then suffer a career-destroying injury.

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Such a nonsense argument. Could say the same about any player's numbers.

Anyone writing this transfer off right now obviously didn't notice that Everton just finished 12th, our top scorer from midfield last season was Bernard with 3 goals and our top assisting midfielder was Sigurdsson with 3 assists.

I know he's been inconsistent and it's not nailed on that he's even going to be a success for us but come on, if this was Wolves or Leicester they'd be getting rimmed for this signing.

That said, it is us so he'll either be shite, or he'll be good for 2-3 months then suffer a career-destroying injury.

How is it a nonsense argument? Stats mean nothing without context. You wouldn't even care if he weren't linked with Everton.

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

How is it a nonsense argument? Stats mean nothing without context. You wouldn't even care if he weren't linked with Everton.

He probably scored and assisted a lot against relegation sides, just like Messi, Ronaldo, Mane, De Bruyne, take your pick. It sort of comes with the territory of being a player with a lot of goals and assists and playing for the top teams in the European leagues who routinely win games by 3 or more goals. If you want to prove that Rodriguez has been more guilty of that than the elite players he's played alongside then fine but as far as I can see you're just speculating. I genuinely don't know, by the way. As with any player, there's a reason he's being linked with Everton and not Juventus or Man City.

"You wouldn't even care if he weren't linked with Everton"... no I probably wouldn't. Plenty of fans of other clubs like to comment on our business though even though Everton are supposed to be irrelevant and it's our fans that are obsessed with a certain close rival more than our own team.

[Spike]

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

He probably scored and assisted a lot against relegation sides, just like Messi, Ronaldo, Mane, De Bruyne, take your pick. It sort of comes with the territory of being a player with a lot of goals and assists and playing for the top teams in the European leagues who routinely win games by 3 or more goals. If you want to prove that Rodriguez has been more guilty of that than the elite players he's played alongside then fine but as far as I can see you're just speculating. I genuinely don't know, by the way. As with any player, there's a reason he's being linked with Everton and not Juventus or Man City.

"You wouldn't even care if he weren't linked with Everton"... no I probably wouldn't. Plenty of fans of other clubs like to comment on our business though even though Everton are supposed to be irrelevant and it's our fans that are obsessed with a certain close rival more than our own team.

He wouldn't be a fringe player and getting forced out of several clubs if his goals were important. I don't think he is a bad player by any means I just dislike using stats as an argument for a player's quality, but there is more to it than just 'he scores a lot' because if that were the case Real Madrid and Bayern wouldn't be trying to get rid of him. It reminds me of players like Christian Tello and Jese that scored at lot for Barcelona and Real Madrid but never really amounted to anything.

I don't give a shit about Everton's business, I'm just saying to Brian that stats aren't a good argument.

[Mpache]

18 minutes ago, Spike said:

He wouldn't be a fringe player and getting forced out of several clubs if his goals were important.

Well read the fucking stat to begin with. Every time he's played he averages a goal and an assist ever 95 minutes. It didn't say anything about his attitude problems which is the reason he's been forced out. It's true he's had inconsistent seasons but he's had more good ones than bad. Not only that but he's going to Everton ffs, it's the step down he really deserved for being an arrogant prick that let the fame get to him. 

I've seen people compare him to El Hadji Diouf (including people on here) and that's just a simply rubbish comparison. Also regarding your point on stats, if I say he' was a great signing people wouldn't have believed me so I needed to back my points up. I'm sorry but if your stats are that good, context really doesn't matter. I could say the same about Messi if I hadn't seen him.

[Spike]

17 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Well read the fucking stat to begin with. Every time he's played he averages a goal and an assist ever 95 minutes. It didn't say anything about his attitude problems which is the reason he's been forced out. It's true he's had inconsistent seasons but he's had more good ones than bad. Not only that but he's going to Everton ffs, it's the step down he really deserved for being an arrogant prick that let the fame get to him. 

I've seen people compare him to El Hadji Diouf (including people on here) and that's just a simply rubbish comparison. Also regarding your point on stats, if I say he' was a great signing people wouldn't have believed me so I needed to back my points up. I'm sorry but if your stats are that good, context really doesn't matter. I could say the same about Messi if I hadn't seen him.

I read the fucking stats, I don't give a shit if he averages a goal ever 3.28 seconds because that is a stupid statistic for stupid people that like to have football broken down into neat little bite size pieces of numbers. He could score 51 goals in one game and make it look like he scores a goal every 45 minutes even though he did it one game, fuck stats have you never heard of stat padding? Go watch baseball, you'd love the numbers.

[Mpache]

Just now, Spike said:

I read the fucking stats, I don't give a shit if he averages a goal ever 3.28 seconds because that is a stupid statistic for stupid people that like to have football broken down into neat little bite size pieces of numbers. He could score 51 goals in one game and make it look like he scores a goal every 45 minutes even though he did it one game, fuck stats. Go watch baseball, you'd love the numbers.

Stats are used in football by everyone with authority. Mostly because the top people in charge don't have all the time in the world to watch football. They don't define a player as much as your own judgement. But again, you are speculating for the sake of being a contrarian. I can tell you right now that his downfall came from being too arrogant. His off the pitch life has taken a dip, this is why he's not wanted by the best of the best. This has begun to affect some of his on the pitch performances, but he's that good that he can grind stats for fun. 2018-19 which was his supposed bad season at Bayern he still bagged 7 goals and 3 assists in 1000 minutes, so roughly 11 games. He was closer to 2000 minutes the season before and he got more assists but 7 goals again. 

Stats are frowned upon on this forum but people miss the point of the arguments half the time. Obviously it's not as good as judgement but just saying X player is good or bad means nothing without some sort of proof, and this is what the football authorities know too. 

[Mpache]

Fuck, Ronaldinho was wanted out by Barcelona for his off the pitch life. This does not mean he was a bad player, even at the time he left Barcelona.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Mpache said:

Stats are used in football by everyone with authority. Mostly because the top people in charge don't have all the time in the world to watch football. They don't define a player as much as your own judgement. But again, you are speculating for the sake of being a contrarian. I can tell you right now that his downfall came from being too arrogant. His off the pitch life has taken a dip, this is why he's not wanted by the best of the best. This has begun to affect some of his on the pitch performances, but he's that good that he can grind stats for fun. 2018-19 which was his supposed bad season at Bayern he still bagged 7 goals and 3 assists in 1000 minutes, so roughly 11 games. He was closer to 2000 minutes the season before and he got more assists but 7 goals again.  

Stats are frowned upon on this forum but people miss the point of the arguments half the time. Obviously it's not as good as judgement but just saying X player is good or bad means nothing without some sort of proof, and this is what the football authorities know too.  

 

Just now, Mpache said:

Fuck, Ronaldinho was wanted out by Barcelona for his off the pitch life. This does not mean he was a bad player, even at the time he left Barcelona.

I never even said he was a bad player FFS. I don't even think you read my posts because I in fact said the opposite, so have some damn self-awareness before telling me to 'read the stats' when you haven't even read my posts

[Mpache]

Just now, Spike said:

 

I never even said he was a bad player FFS. I don't even think you read my posts because I in fact said the opposite, so have some damn self-awareness before telling me to 'read the stats' when you haven't even read my posts

I did read that but saying stats are meaningless is nonsense. That was the mentality I used to have (just read back and you'll find I've said it countless times) but as I started to work for more professional analytic websites and talked to scouts I now see that's what they use a lot, because in the professional world you can't judge a player just by saying what they are good or bad at. You HAVE to provide proof. Of course, you did say "without context" and you shouldn't just toss stats around for the sake of it but that's not what I'm doing here.

[El Profesor]

I agree that stats need context in order to be rightly interpreted. 

In the specific case of James, he also easily passes the eye test. When you watch him play, it gets obvious that he is incredibly talented. Few players have his vision and creativity, he's one of the last classic number 10 in football nowadays. 

The one area I think he needs to improve is his intensity. In some matches, he is nowhere to be found for long periods. 

[Spike]

Just now, Mpache said:

I did read that but saying stats are meaningless is nonsense. That was the mentality I used to have (just read back and you'll find I've said it countless times) but as I started to work for more professional analytic websites and talked to scouts I now see that's what they use a lot, because in the professional world you can't judge a player just by saying what they are good or bad at. You HAVE to provide proof. Of course, you did say "without context" and you shouldn't just toss stats around for the sake of it but that's not what I'm doing here.

What context? I have no idea if his goals are free kicks, outside the box, with his head, penalties, against what team, what the score was, did he start, did sub on, was he playing through the middle, was he playing with Robben and Ribery as his wingers, etc. Where is the context? You've only given me numbers that don't mean anything, oh get he averages goal/assist every 90 minutes? So? When Dimitar Berbatov scored 20 goals in 30 odd games for Man Utd and won the golden boot, a little context reveals five goals came in one game, all of a sudden he has 15 goals across one less game, that changes the stats immensely, a little more digging reveals hattricks and braces that all change the narrative.

[Mpache]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

What context? I have no idea if his goals are free kicks, outside the box, with his head, penalties, against what team, what the score was, did he start, did sub on, was he playing through the middle, was he playing with Robben and Ribery as his wingers, etc. Where is the context? You've only given me numbers that don't mean anything, oh get he averages goal/assist every 90 minutes? So? When Dimitar Berbatov scored 20 goals in 30 odd games for Man Utd and won the golden boot, a little context reveals five goals came in one game, all of a sudden he has 15 goals across one less game, that changes the stats immensely, a little more digging reveals hattricks and braces that all change the narrative.

Not a fair comparison, because Berbatov plays in a completely different role where he is expected to score goals.

What does it matter if it's free kicks, with his head, against what team or if he was a sub or starter. The fact he can do it consistently in a top team, let alone a top 5 league speaks for his quality. The only 2 that matter are penalties and what the score was. Former because you could be a really good penalty taker under pressure but a crappy footballer, latter because you could score when both teams are winding down. Given how high the stats were though, then I can't see all 77 goals being when the game is finished. That is speculating as well, but I'm measuring the probability of these situations.

Anyways I'm not sending any professional reports to anyone so I wasn't arsed to dig deep and do a full fledged analysis. That would take hours of watching footage on Wyscout or Instat. I was partially having a go at the people on here who think James is the 2nd coming of El Hadji Diouf. Won't name anyone but there were 2 on here that said it and were quite established.

[Spike]

Just now, Mpache said:

Not a fair comparison, because Berbatov plays in a completely different role where he is expected to score goals.

What does it matter if it's free kicks, with his head, against what team or if he was a sub or starter. The fact he can do it consistently in a top team, let alone a top 5 league speaks for his quality. The only 2 that matter are penalties and what the score was. Former because you could be a really good penalty taker under pressure but a good footballer, latter because you could score when both teams are winding down. Given how high the stats were though, then I can't see all 77 goals being when the game is finished. That is speculating as well, but I'm measuring the probability of these situations.

Anyways I'm not sending any professional reports to anyone so I wasn't arsed to dig deep and do a full fledged analysis. That would take hours of watching footage on Wyscout or Instat. I was partially having a go at the people on here who think James is the 2nd coming of El Hadji Diouf. Won't name anyone but there were 2 on here that said it and were quite established.

No it isn't unfair, because it is merely an example of reading stats with context, not the player. Of course it matters because it changes the perception of the player when context is given. Why would anyone want to sign a player that only scores in the 90' minute when the game is already 8-0? That changes everything. Andre Pierre Gignac was the top scorer of Ligue 1 once upon a time and he scored every goal with his left foot, doesn't that suggest he is weak with his head and right? Doesn't that suggest that perhaps he is a limited player. All this information is important, more important that the numbers.

[Mpache]

Just now, Spike said:

No it isn't unfair, because it is merely an example of reading stats with context, not the player. Of course it matters because it changes the perception of the player when context is given. Why would anyone want to sign a player that only scores in the 90' minute when the game is already 8-0? That changes everything. Andre Pierre Gignac was the top scorer of Ligue 1 once upon a time and he scored every goal with his left foot, doesn't that suggest he is weak with his head and right? Doesn't that suggest that perhaps he is a limited player. All this information is important, more important that the numbers.

I get that, you're right it's important in the professional sense to tell how limited/one dimensional a player is or is not. I don't see what this has to do with the James stats I posted though, they were general stats. Unless we're working professionally, why should I watch hours of footage to prove a point on Twitter/Forums? Honestly the context was enough for me. Those stats are extremely high and it's very unlikely he's scored them all with one foot or just headers. All I did was back up my point on James, I'm not here to do professional analysis posts unless I feel like it. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The El Hadji Diouf comparison isn’t that far off. The height of both players’ careers has been a World Cup tournament. James has never once, regardless of the stats, looked like the player he was in that tournament ever again, imo.

[Spike]

Just now, Mpache said:

I get that, you're right it's important in the professional sense to tell how limited/one dimensional a player is or is not. I don't see what this has to do with the James stats I posted though, they were general stats. Unless we're working professionally, why should I watch hours of footage to prove a point on Twitter/Forums? Honestly the context was enough for me. Those stats are extremely high and it's very unlikely he's scored them all with one foot or just headers. All I did was back up my point on James, I'm not here to do professional analysis posts unless I feel like it. 

I'm not asking you to do any of that, I'm just saying that stats without context are worthless, and presenting that data to me doesn't change my mind either way; it is just numbers that exist they don't mean anything, they don't make me think any less or any more of the player.

[Mpache]

Just now, Spike said:

I'm not asking you to do any of that, I'm just saying that stats without context are worthless, and presenting that data to me doesn't change my mind either way; it is just numbers that exist they don't mean anything, they don't make me think any less or any more of the player.

Fair enough, but just keep in mind and this is from experience, that stats are VERY important for people in charge of football.